helsinki 2005 wc retest results

martinvickers

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mikehammer67 said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/9903233/IAAF-to-unmask-drugs-cheats-after-hundreds-of-samples-from-2005-World-Athletics-Championships-are-re-tested.html

I wonder how big is this 'big news' going to be?
Hopefully it won't be just eastern european nobodies again

The IOC busted a few token randommers last year in the lead-up to london
They aren't nobodies - thinking that they are, that's a western cultural problem. when you are losing medals left, right and centre, you aren't hitting nobodies.

I want people caught because they cheated, not just because I recognise them. And backdated dope tests are, in my humble view, a great leap forward.
 
martinvickers said:
They aren't nobodies - thinking that they are, that's a western cultural problem. when you are losing medals left, right and centre, you aren't hitting nobodies.

I want people caught because they cheated, not just because I recognise them. And backdated dope tests are, in my humble view, a great leap forward.
nobodies who won Gold and Silver
 
Aug 19, 2012
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martinvickers said:
They aren't nobodies - thinking that they are, that's a western cultural problem. when you are losing medals left, right and centre, you aren't hitting nobodies.

I want people caught because they cheated, not just because I recognise them. And backdated dope tests are, in my humble view, a great leap forward.
they're such a great leap forward that the IOC reluctantly retested less than 100 samples from athens and busted a few eastern europeans

they wouldn't have even bothered retesting if they hadn't been reminded and pressured into doing it
 

Dr. Maserati

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martinvickers said:
They aren't nobodies - thinking that they are, that's a western cultural problem. when you are losing medals left, right and centre, you aren't hitting nobodies.

I want people caught because they cheated, not just because I recognise them. And backdated dope tests are, in my humble view, a great leap forward.
I would agree with all that you say - but it seems Davies does not share your enthusiasm.

Davies said other athletes “in the low single figures” had returned positive results but added: “There are no British athletes involved. That’s a guarantee.”
 
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1,2,3,4 in the womens 1500 final were all subsequently busted

ramzi and gatlin are still double champions from helsinki
 

martinvickers

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Dr. Maserati said:
I would agree with all that you say - but it seems Davies does not share your enthusiasm.
His problem, not mine. I'm Irish; Perfectly happy to catch GB dopers.

Perfectly happy to catch Irish dopers actually.

Suspect he was simply answering a direct question from a brit journo.

But I do find "oh they're east european, they don't matter" ludicrously funny - not like Russia is one of the dominant athletics nations, or Belarus a field events power, or anything. It's actually a little bit bigotted, when you think about it.

Some people seem more interested in the excitement of an anglosphere news story ("Bolt caught cheating! Mo on the dope!"), and disappointed in not really getting it, than in the plodding reality of weeding out the cheats.

Mind you, some people want to hang Lance Armstrong, yet think Riccardo Ricco is somehow a victim. Rather than, you know, they're both unrepentant doping b*stards who deserve everything they get. Both of them.
 

martinvickers

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mikehammer67 said:
1,2,3,4 in the womens 1500 final were all subsequently busted

ramzi and gatlin are still double champions from helsinki
True, but both are also pariahs, because...they were eventually caught!

Personally, I'd be happy for All caught dopers to be stripped of ALL past titles and medals, and for life bans regardless. I'm an extremist in that regard.

But caught russian cheats are still caught cheats. and thus still a good thing. full stop.
 

martinvickers

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Dr. Maserati said:
I would agree with all that you say - but it seems Davies does not share your enthusiasm.
and just to be clear - I have NO doubt there are serious GB (and Irish, and US and Aussie)doping problems. Just not necessarily in the sports or areas you might assume.

Look where the Aussies uncovered shocking problems - I'd say it's all too plausible that the hardcore GB problems are in very similar sports, and not just for culturally similar reasons.

Rugby League in GB is widely suspected of being a playground. Rugby Union to a lesser extent, but likewise and also in Ireland (which given Paul Kimmage is currently hero-worshipping O'Driscoll, is kinda funny).

I'd be amazed if English soccer was clean.

I'm sure I'm not alone in being..cautious...about Judy Murray taking over women's tennis in GB, and the immediate strides of Watson and Robson - though i have, of course, no proof.

Mo Farah has as many, if not more, worrying 'associations' than Wiggins for crying out loud. But his closeness to Radcliffe renders him all but immune in the GB press.

English county cricket is riddled with social drug taking.
 

Dr. Maserati

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martinvickers said:
His problem, not mine. I'm Irish; Perfectly happy to catch GB dopers.

Perfectly happy to catch Irish dopers actually.

Suspect he was simply answering a direct question from a brit journo.

But I do find "oh they're east european, they don't matter" ludicrously funny - not like Russia is one of the dominant athletics nations, or Belarus a field events power, or anything. It's actually a little bit bigotted, when you think about it.

Some people seem more interested in the excitement of an anglosphere news story ("Bolt caught cheating! Mo on the dope!"), and disappointed in not really getting it, than in the plodding reality of weeding out the cheats.

Mind you, some people want to hang Lance Armstrong, yet think Riccardo Ricco is somehow a victim. Rather than, you know, they're both unrepentant doping b*stards who deserve everything they get. Both of them.
Do you do confessions as well as long sermons?
 
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martinvickers said:
His problem, not mine. I'm Irish; Perfectly happy to catch GB dopers.

Perfectly happy to catch Irish dopers actually.

Suspect he was simply answering a direct question from a brit journo.

But I do find "oh they're east european, they don't matter" ludicrously funny - not like Russia is one of the dominant athletics nations, or Belarus a field events power, or anything. It's actually a little bit bigotted, when you think about it.

Some people seem more interested in the excitement of an anglosphere news story ("Bolt caught cheating! Mo on the dope!"), and disappointed in not really getting it, than in the plodding reality of weeding out the cheats.

Mind you, some people want to hang Lance Armstrong, yet think Riccardo Ricco is somehow a victim. Rather than, you know, they're both unrepentant doping b*stards who deserve everything they get. Both of them.
which is bigger news -dame kelly holmes busted(to pick an example) or some shot putter from belarus?

i suspect last year the IOC were more concerned with a little pre-london 'window dressing' than the "plodding reality of weeding out the cheats"
 

martinvickers

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mikehammer67 said:
which is bigger news -dame kelly holmes busted(to pick an example) or some shot putter from belarus?
1. Not interested in 'big' news or littel news. interested in catching cheats.

i suspect last year the IOC were more concerned with a little pre-london 'window dressing' than the "plodding reality of weeding out the cheats"
What, so we should let those poor slavs away with it? look, don't dope, don't get caught. simples.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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martinvickers said:
His problem, not mine. I'm Irish; Perfectly happy to catch GB dopers.

Perfectly happy to catch Irish dopers actually.

Suspect he was simply answering a direct question from a brit journo.

But I do find "oh they're east european, they don't matter" ludicrously funny - not like Russia is one of the dominant athletics nations, or Belarus a field events power, or anything. It's actually a little bit bigotted, when you think about it.

Some people seem more interested in the excitement of an anglosphere news story ("Bolt caught cheating! Mo on the dope!"), and disappointed in not really getting it, than in the plodding reality of weeding out the cheats.

Mind you, some people want to hang Lance Armstrong, yet think Riccardo Ricco is somehow a victim. Rather than, you know, they're both unrepentant doping b*stards who deserve everything they get. Both of them.
Nobody cares if some eastern european gets busted. Thats not where the money comes from. Thats why its safe to catch them to pretend they are serious about it. But if they start catching names that matter, then the sponsors might go away and that would be very bad.
 

martinvickers

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the sceptic said:
Nobody cares if some eastern european gets busted. Thats not where the money comes from. Thats why its safe to catch them to pretend they are serious about it. But if they start catching names that matter, then the sponsors might go away and that would be very bad.
Of course not. there's no money in sponsorship in russia, none I tells ya
 
Mo farah has been named 1 of the 5 nominees for.laureus because he did the 5 10 double.

In 2008 kenenisa bekele did the 5 10 double in significantly faster times and more.impressive fashions, setting Olympic records for both races. He was a younger athlete, an Olympic gold and silver medalist from the previous Olympics and a 3 time.world.champion .

But his efforts.were.deemed unworthy for a nomination
 
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The Hitch said:
Mo farah has been named 1 of the 5 nominees for.laureus because he did the 5 10 double.

In 2008 kenenisa bekele did the 5 10 double in significantly faster times and more.impressive fashions, setting Olympic records for both races. He was a younger athlete, an Olympic gold and silver medalist from the previous Olympics and a 3 time.world.champion .

But his efforts.were.deemed unworthy for a nomination
seems to be a strong olympic flavour to the nominations for 2013
 

martinvickers

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The Hitch said:
Mo farah has been named 1 of the 5 nominees for.laureus because he did the 5 10 double.
Six nominees - Bolt, Wiggins, Farah, Messi, Phelps, Vettel - Bolt ought to win from that group.

In 2008 kenenisa bekele did the 5 10 double in significantly faster times and more.impressive fashions, setting Olympic records for both races. He was a younger athlete, an Olympic gold and silver medalist from the previous Olympics and a 3 time.world.champion .

But his efforts.were.deemed unworthy for a nomination
He was nominated in 2010. Every years has its oddities. Valentino Rossi?

But Bekele has been nominated.

But more to the point. The Laureus awards are, and are designed to be, a completely Western Eurocentric award - international sports AS VIEWED FROM EUROPE - compare the ESPY in north America. Look for example at every nomination since 2000 in male of the year at Laureus.

Not a single cricketer. No Tendulkar, No Dhoni. No mention of the iconic 2005 Ashes.

not a single chinese in ANY sport. No gymnast.

They are NOT in ANY way indicative of the global sports market - only the western european, with maybe a nod to the USA. And they take account of Narrative. and like it or not, for large parts of the West, 2012 was the year of the Brit - Wiggins in Le Tour, Mo's double, Jess Ennis, Murray in New York.

Frankly I'm stunned Vettel is there this year. But an athlete who finally broke the west African domination of distance running? That ain't a surprise, Bekele or no Bekele....

Out of interest, Greg Lemond won l'equipe world athlete of the year in 1989 - no cyclist has won it since....
 
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martinvickers said:
Six nominees - Bolt, Wiggins, Farah, Messi, Phelps, Vettel - Bolt ought to win from that group.



He was nominated in 2010. Every years has its oddities. Valentino Rossi?

But Bekele has been nominated.

But more to the point. The Laureus awards are, and are designed to be, a completely Western Eurocentric award - international sports AS VIEWED FROM EUROPE - compare the ESPY in north America. Look for example at every nomination since 2000 in male of the year at Laureus.

Not a single cricketer. No Tendulkar, No Dhoni. No mention of the iconic 2005 Ashes.

not a single chinese in ANY sport. No gymnast.

They are NOT in ANY way indicative of the global sports market - only the western european, with maybe a nod to the USA. And they take account of Narrative. and like it or not, for large parts of the West, 2012 was the year of the Brit - Wiggins in Le Tour, Mo's double, Jess Ennis, Murray in New York.

Frankly I'm stunned Vettel is there this year. But an athlete who finally broke the west African domination of distance running? That ain't a surprise, Bekele or no Bekele....
Ethiopia and Kenya are east african countries. So is Somalia for that matter ;)

Vettel isn't an athlete, shouldn't be in there, but hey, car stuff = big bucks = go on then.

jess ennis, I love her, and she is absolutely huge in the uk but no one outside of there knows of her. Mo Farah is much more known around the world but still not wellknown enough for thick americans to know not to ask him "have you ever ran before"
 

martinvickers

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workingclasshero said:
Ethiopia and Kenya are east african countries. So is Somalia for that matter ;)
Entirely my brainfart - i of course meant east africa - Somalia has NO history of producing distance champs, though, and I'm not aware they have the altitude conditions that kenya 'enjoys' either.

Burkina Faso distance runners a little rarer still, though...

Vettel isn't an athlete, shouldn't be in there, but hey, car stuff = big bucks = go on then.
agree 100%

jess ennis, I love her, and she is absolutely huge in the uk but no one outside of there knows of her.
She was the Cathy Freeman figure of the games. Not important in and of herself, but the 'face' of the games

Mo Farah is much more known around the world but still not well known enough for thick americans to know not to ask him "have you ever ran before"
Americans are as smart, or as dumb, as anyone else on earth. no more no less.

American MEDIA however? dumb, dumb, dumb....
 
Jun 21, 2009
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martinvickers said:
She was the Cathy Freeman figure of the games. Not important in and of herself, but the 'face' of the games
afraid that was only in the uk pal. Cathy Freeman was a bigger story for foreign media due to her background and the history. I'm not saying i wouldn't pay top whack to sleep with her, but Jess simply wasn't the face of the games anywhere outside the uk (and probz ireland).
 
Jun 21, 2009
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mikehammer67 said:
they're world sports awards

not restricted to athletes
did we really need another reason to call these awards shìte? i hate the laureus crap now, they're racist and they don't respect proper athletes, what next? :mad: :mad:
 

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