Historical Classics & WCRR Routes

[vedrafjord]

Re: Re:

https://lasterketaburua.wordpress.com/2016/10/15/circuiti-mondiali/

That is an incredible resource. It is interesting that there were more circuits in previous years. Any guess as to why that is?

It also has a great banner pic. Kelly on the downtube shifters...

As both that site and Libertine point out, the Nordschleife of the Nürburgring has been used as a worlds course several times:

and indeed has an annual sportive:

THE CHALLENGE IN THE GREEN HELL
At the event 'Rad am Ring' from 28 - 30 July 2017 sports enthusiasts get to know the Nürburgring by bicycle. Show what you're made of. Register now!
'Rad am Ring' belongs to the national everyman's racing series of the German Cycling Cup. Advertised are routes of over 70 and 140 kilometres on the approx. 23 kilometre long Ring-circuit 500 meters in height and with 73 curves. This means that enjoyment and tough challenges are adjacent to each other. The wide racing circuit, the flawless asphalt of which enables top speeds of up to 100 km/h demands real stamina on its slopes. This is where participants - man and woman alike - can test their personal limits and experience the unique atmosphere of the Ring.

Strava lists that climb as 4 km @ 6%.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Skip the Karussel and climb it via Steilstrecke like in 1927. Way better. There is btw a great book by the german publisher Covadonga about all the World Championships with texts about the courses and races. -> http://www.covadonga.de/pdf/lp334.pdf

The amateur wcc goes back to 1921 with races in Copenhagen, Liverpool, Zürich, Paris, Apeldoorn and Milano-Torino. I don't know if there were any race circuits involved.

I wonder if there were any interesting circuits in the years when the juniors where seperated from the other events. Some of the host cities sound quite interesting to me for a cycling race.

2010 - Offida
2009 - Moscow
2008 - Cape Town
2007 - Aguascalientes
2006 - Spa–Francorchamps
2005 - Oberwart
1996 - Nove Mesto
1995 - Forlì
1994 - Quito
1993 - Perth
1992 - Olympia
1991 - Colorado Springs
1990 - Middelsborough
1989 - Moscow
1988 - Odense
1987 - Bergamo <3
1986 - Casablanca
1985 - Stuttgart
1984 - Beuvron
1983 - Wanganui
1982 - Firenze
1981 - Leipzig
1980 - Mexico City
1979 - Buenos Aires
1978 - Washington
1977 - Wien
1976 - Liège
1975 - Lausanne

 

[rghysens]

Re: Re:

The way of racing Worlds has definitely changed. I think Valkenburg had identical circuits in 1998 and 2012. In 1998 there were minutes of gaps everywhere, in 2012 it was your average uphill sprint.

It was raining all day in 1998.

Plus a group with favourites (Van Petegem, Bartoli, Boogerd and some outsiders) went clear with quite some distance to go, after which the peloton sat up.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Perhaps the most interesting possible course not previously used would be the Mount Panorama Circuit in Bathurst, Australia, which reaches gradients of 17% on its ascent and is a good 7-8km with roads leading out into the town to give the options of an Imola- or Goodwood-like circuit course.

Yes please, on of my favorite all time racing game circuits.

 

[OlavEH]

This could be the route if Vicenza is chosen as a host for the 2020 Worlds:

Looks quite good and well balanced. Tougher than most routes the last 10-15 years, but not as tough as Mendrisio og Firenze.

Anyone who knows if there are any of the steep Yorkshire hills close to Harrogate that could be used for the RR in 2019? This year's stage to Harrogate in Tour of Yorkshire was fairly flat.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

This could be the route if Vicenza is chosen as a host for the 2020 Worlds:

Looks quite good and well balanced. Tougher than most routes the last 10-15 years, but not as tough as Mendrisio og Firenze.

Anyone who knows if there are any of the steep Yorkshire hills close to Harrogate that could be used for the RR in 2019? This year's stage to Harrogate in Tour of Yorkshire was fairly flat.

At first glace it looks nice but the circuit is 20km. If they do 13 laps on the circuit only then it's ok. Also it matters a lot how technical the bit between the top of the Monte Berico and the descent toward the final clibm is, if that's good chasing ground it's still gonna be hard to open up the race.

However, only 5km from the end of the descent to the finish, and I don't if that final bump is actually gonna matter or not.

http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/vidme/?title=Last+14+Km+of+Stage+12&dashboard=giro-d-italia&id=TMpg&yr=2015

This is the 'easy climb' of the circuit ridden at the Giro, with Contador getting 2nd, though it's in *** weather, after 12 days of racign and with a particular nasty climb along the way.

 

[Forever The Best]

I'm not gonna add much since there have been great posts made by LS, fauniera, Max, and also thanks to roundabout for the Lombardia link and to Netserk for posting the alternative route proposed by Lasterketa Burua.

 

[Nirvana]

Re:

This could be the route if Vicenza is chosen as a host for the 2020 Worlds:

Looks quite good and well balanced. Tougher than most routes the last 10-15 years, but not as tough as Mendrisio og Firenze.

Anyone who knows if there are any of the steep Yorkshire hills close to Harrogate that could be used for the RR in 2019? This year's stage to Harrogate in Tour of Yorkshire was fairly flat.

The second ramp won't be approved by UCI, i saw the photos on an italian forum and is a goat track so narrow that a car can hardly pass and there is also a wall on the flank.
Will be a pretty easy route considering that with the Monte Berico at the beginning and no second ramp the circuit is even worse than Bergen and they want to start from Venice with a long flat part along the riviera del Brenta that could be around 120/150 kms so not more than 7/8 laps of the circuit.

 

[OlavEH]

Re: Re:

The second ramp won't be approved by UCI, i saw the photos on an italian forum and is a goat track so narrow that a car can hardly pass and there is also a wall on the flank.
Will be a pretty easy route considering that with the Monte Berico at the beginning and no second ramp the circuit is even worse than Bergen and they want to start from Venice with a long flat part along the riviera del Brenta that could be around 120/150 kms so not more than 7/8 laps of the circuit.

Ok. Too bad. It that's correct, the route will probably be pretty easy and on par with Bergen, Geelong, Richmond, etc. Berico in a

Then I hope that the route in Harrogate/Yorkshire will be tough. More than enough easy/fairly easy routes the last years.

 

[Valv.Piti]

The routes just need to be getting harder and harder to counteract the fact that riders have gotten a lot more evenly matched now, particularly the domestiques of today. Thats a problem, therefore we need tougher parcours to ensure that there is an actual race going on before the last lap.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, I mean Milan Sanremo once per year is enough thank you very much.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Don't get your hopes up for Harrogate boys, look at the map first: they didn't exactly pick the most hilly part of Yorkshire........

 

[OlavEH]

Re:

Don't get your hopes up for Harrogate boys, look at the map first: they didn't exactly pick the most hilly part of Yorkshire........

Shite, so there are none of those steep hils like the last stage in this year's ToY near Harrogate?

Could be another bad route and mostly boring race. Since 2010 I only find next year's route in Innsbruck and 2013 in Firenze above average, and partially 2014 in Ponferrada. Rest of the courses in the last years have been underwhelming.

 

[Red Rick]

Copenhagen 2011: Ha. Haha. Hahahahahahahaa
Valkenburg 2012: Same as 2011, except for OMG CAUBERG MUST BE SELECTIVE
Firenze 2013: Decent route, though Fiesole profile made attacking anywhere else and before the last lap pointless
Ponferrada 2014: See 2012, but O wait it has a 4% climb so it must be harder
Richmond 2015: Course was 90% flat so the race must be full of action to create selection. AMIRIGHT?
Doha 2016: At least I have a place I need to remember in case I accidentally hack a nuclear submarine
Bergen 2017: When you try to make up for a dreadful race by having decent attendance
Innsbruck 2018: Dumb. Stupid: Ridiculous. But hey at least it's not another alternative Milan Sanremo

 

[Valv.Piti]

Whats wrong with 18 now?

 

[Netserk]

It'd be awesome without the mur in the end, but it's still pretty good.

 

[Red Rick]

It's gonna be 265 km of waiting for a 2.7km Murito most likely. Every team is gonna be something like 1 rouleur and 8 climbers, so you can't attack without getting chased down.

 

[franic]

Re:

Copenhagen 2011: Ha. Haha. Hahahahahahahaa
Valkenburg 2012: Same as 2011, except for OMG CAUBERG MUST BE SELECTIVE
Firenze 2013: Decent route, though Fiesole profile made attacking anywhere else and before the last lap pointless
Ponferrada 2014: See 2012, but O wait it has a 4% climb so it must be harder
Richmond 2015: Course was 90% flat so the race must be full of action to create selection. AMIRIGHT?
Doha 2016: At least I have a place I need to remember in case I accidentally hack a nuclear submarine
Bergen 2017: When you try to make up for a dreadful race by having decent attendance
Innsbruck 2018: Dumb. Stupid: Ridiculous. But hey at least it's not another alternative Milan Sanremo

Ponferrada would have been great if UCI did not remove a hill

 

[Tonton]

Edit: WRT 2018 being bad.

Yes, I don't get it. The best course in years IMO...

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Copenhagen 2011: Ha. Haha. Hahahahahahahaa
Valkenburg 2012: Same as 2011, except for OMG CAUBERG MUST BE SELECTIVE
Firenze 2013: Decent route, though Fiesole profile made attacking anywhere else and before the last lap pointless
Ponferrada 2014: See 2012, but O wait it has a 4% climb so it must be harder
Richmond 2015: Course was 90% flat so the race must be full of action to create selection. AMIRIGHT?
Doha 2016: At least I have a place I need to remember in case I accidentally hack a nuclear submarine
Bergen 2017: When you try to make up for a dreadful race by having decent attendance
Innsbruck 2018: Dumb. Stupid: Ridiculous. But hey at least it's not another alternative Milan Sanremo

Ponferrada would have been great if UCI did not remove a hill

Yeah what was the original again? One biggish climb or something?

 

[Netserk]

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Re:

They also had the idea for an uphill itt, which was rejected by the UCI. Would have been quite interesting to have Contador and Froome battle it out there.

Does anybody have more on the classics? Like routes for Paris-Roubaix in the 70ies and 80ies? Did they use more or less cobbles?

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Now that would've been a very interesting one for sure.

 

[franic]

Re:

Actually in my mind it was better than what I see now.
Lasterketa Burua has two proposals (that, of course, are not going to be considered) for the Yorkshire WC. I think I would like to have 14-15 laps of the shorter course.
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/22604808
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/22604844

 

[franic]

Re: Re:

Actually in my mind it was better than what I see now.
Lasterketa Burua has two proposals (that, of course, are not going to be considered) for the Yorkshire WC. I think I would like to have 14-15 laps of the shorter course.
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/22604808
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/22604844

I've actually checked again with street view and it's deadly flat around Harrogate! It's going to be so boring!