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History of ITTers in GTGCs with regards to doping.

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Jul 6, 2010
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Mrs John Murphy said:
They tend to fix the parcours and other competitions to favour the riders whose success will bring in the most money.

The lack of ITT this year was no accident.

Although no one (other than a few nutters and nationalists) want to see Tony 'not a farmer' Martin win.

Well, based on that, we'll see a Schleck-led tricycle race around the Champs ending with a carnival-tuned pinata party under the Arc.

Winner gets a pony!
 
JMBeaushrimp said:
Well, based on that, we'll see a Schleck-led tricycle race around the Champs ending with a carnival-tuned pinata party under the Arc.

Winner gets a pony!

well of course a lot depends on how much work the schlecks do in the Hog's 'wind tunnel'.

But I am assuming that next years TDF will involve:

A TTT so Klean Klodi, Canc, Horner, etc can tow my little pony around.

10 panflat stages for Frodo.

No descending, ever.

Free Unicorns for lovely blond haired riders + the opportunity to take some vaguely homoerotic photographs with team members.

The winner of the stage is allowed 'meet' girls.

Podium+Look+TOC+Stage+1+037.JPG
 
Jul 6, 2010
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A lot of these resigns/transfers are making me even crankier than normal...

Maybe someone can track down LA's missing nut, and implant into Andy. Buddy needs to find his balls...
 
Just as they fixed the MV to benefit Frodo, so they'll fix the TDF parcours to benefit the Schlecks.

Cuddles was not supposed to win the TDF, although from a globalisation point of view an english speaking winner is always a positive result.

The aim of the organisers and the UCI is to make money and getting the 'right' winner from the marketing point of view is the name of the game.
 
Maybe the follwoing would happen:

1) the climbers would train seriously for the ITT and get better toreduce any gap

2) there would be more attacks in the mountains as they try to build an advantage over the Cadel/Wiggins type of riders

I'm not seeing a downside.
 
Apr 8, 2010
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python said:
imo, bjarne riis would be an interesting example to look into. his 'arrival' was just about at the edge of the rise/beginning of wide spread in blood doping

he certainly was physically larger than most typical tdf/gt winners (granted there are always exceptions). also, ceratinly other that blood doping factors played along his victory (iirc, he indeed lost massive weight and was one of the pioneers of training with the power meter)...yet, a relatively increasing success of the itt specialists in gts (who are normally but not always larger than climbers) is obvious...

Riis was 69 kg when he won the tour.
I haven't done any research on tour winner weights but I'm guessing that 69 kg is not that uncommon/extreme.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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The BIG MIG was prob about 95Kilos! (just a joke) and Greg prob was around 50 kilos and that was if he was weighed in wearing a wet coat!

I am having trouble to quit looking at that picture! ;)
 
GJB123 said:
But in the end it only reinforces my point that there have been very few out and out climbers winning the TdF. In that respect it isn't that strange that great ITT'ists who could climb well enough have always won so many TdF's, so not only in the EPO-era.

Regards
GJ

absolutely.

the sign of a possible tour winner was always someone who could tt with the very best from the earliest point in their career.

and who happened to also climb (not necessarily the best climber, but over three weeks recuperated the best so that they eventually rivaled, if not beat, the climbers at their own game in the third week -- herrera never won because hinault rode him into the ground in the flat stages. fuente never beat merckx for the same reason)

van impe was not a bad TT-er himself but the only tour he won had 5 summit finishes and tons and tons of mountains. it had been set up to advantage frenchman thevenet over merckx. merckx didn't ride due to illness and thevenet ended abandoning as he tended to do on even years -- related to his cortisone usage)

i would argue that the epo era allowed for the wins of someone who was actually too big and heavy to normally win (indurain), someone who was way too much of a climber to win (pantani), and someone who never had the ability to recover for three weeks (armstrong).

all things being equal, it is ullrich who was probably the natural heir to the TTer who can climb and recuperate, the natural heir to anquetil, merckx, hinault and lemond.
 
Big Doopie said:
absolutely.

the sign of a possible tour winner was always someone who could tt with the very best from the earliest point in their career.

and who happened to also climb (not necessarily the best climber, but over three weeks recuperated the best so that they eventually rivaled, if not beat, the climbers at their own game in the third week -- herrera never won because hinault rode him into the ground in the flat stages. fuente never beat merckx for the same reason)

van impe was not a bad TT-er himself but the only tour he won had 5 summit finishes and tons and tons of mountains. it had been set up to advantage frenchman thevenet over merckx. merckx didn't ride due to illness and thevenet ended abandoning as he tended to do on even years -- related to his cortisone usage)

i would argue that the epo era allowed for the wins of someone who was actually too big and heavy to normally win (indurain), someone who was way too much of a climber to win (pantani), and someone who never had the ability to recover for three weeks (armstrong).

all things being equal, it is ullrich who was probably the natural heir to the TTer who can climb and recuperate, the natural heir to anquetil, merckx, hinault and lemond.

Poor Jan , if there's anyone I've ever been a fanboy of its Jan, I still have my pet beagle who's full name in Jantastic.
 
As others have mentioned a lot of the older GT greats were riding at a time when MTF were rarer and mountain stages finishing in towns after big climbs were more common. Also the TT were huge 100 KM sometimes. Tony Martin could easily top ten on on of the old courses.

I'm not sure why every one thinks GT's are only for pure climbers these days. Look at who generally wins. They can all time trail bar the odd exception, a pure climber really has to pull something special out of the bag to win.
 
Big Doopie said:
absolutely.

the sign of a possible tour winner was always someone who could tt with the very best from the earliest point in their career.

and who happened to also climb (not necessarily the best climber, but over three weeks recuperated the best so that they eventually rivaled, if not beat, the climbers at their own game in the third week -- herrera never won because hinault rode him into the ground in the flat stages. fuente never beat merckx for the same reason)

van impe was not a bad TT-er himself but the only tour he won had 5 summit finishes and tons and tons of mountains. it had been set up to advantage frenchman thevenet over merckx. merckx didn't ride due to illness and thevenet ended abandoning as he tended to do on even years -- related to his cortisone usage)

i would argue that the epo era allowed for the wins of someone who was actually too big and heavy to normally win (indurain), someone who was way too much of a climber to win (pantani), and someone who never had the ability to recover for three weeks (armstrong).

all things being equal, it is ullrich who was probably the natural heir to the TTer who can climb and recuperate, the natural heir to anquetil, merckx, hinault and lemond.

My exact thoughts so I nominate this as the best post of the decate, and without EPO, Ullrich would have one at least 7 : 1997,1998, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006.
 
webvan said:
My exact thoughts so I nominate this as the best post of the decate, and without EPO, Ullrich would have one at least 7 : 1997,1998, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006.

I think he might have won 5 if he came like he did against Lance bar 03. But if it was 97 Ullrich he might have won 7. You have to consider if Kloden would have won 04 considering he was doing better than Ullrich.
 

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webvan said:
My exact thoughts so I nominate this as the best post of the decate, and without EPO, Ullrich would have one at least 7 : 1997,1998, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006.

How about we nominate it for "2nd best post" of the decade.
2nd best, just like Jan

To think Jan could win at least 7 is hilarious.
And of course, we will never see 7 In A Row ever again.
NEVER.
And to think EPO made the difference is hilarious too.
HAHA.

EPO did not make the difference in 98.
It was mechanicals and bad weather on The Galibier.
EPO did not make a difference for Jan in 99
He was injured.
EPO did not make the difference in 02 for Jan.
Drugs and booze and the ladies and fast cars did him in.
Other years he was too nice. Waiting.
Other years using a pallet scale instead of a gram scale to weigh his food.
Other years crashing.
To be honest, some of those years he was not even second or third best.
And EPO never made the difference.
NEVER.

Ironically, the ONLY year Jan could have won WITHOUT EPO was 1997.
And he was doped to the gills on EPO that year lol.
But again, it did not make the difference.

All that said, Jan was and is awesome!
Can't wait for his book.
I will have to skip ahead and read the chapter where Lance waited for Jan after Jan crashed and they held hands at the finish line.