Holy Shiv! Specialized bike is now illegal?

[Big GMaC]

This was one of their more stupid decisions. The reasoning had to do with ergonomics and safety (I think it was safety of the elbows, believe it or not). Just a load of crap. Concepts like this, which are supposedly based on ergonomics, are actually pulled out of someones a**. The 5 cm rule is another load of crap.

I did my first proper TT last year and they were following the full UCI code for positioning and I had to change my position at the start because of the UCI rules... It is difficult for me to fit in the guidelines as I am quite tall but mainly because don't have particularly typical body shape...

I can understand some of the UCI rules e.g. against those clip-ons they experiemented with in the peleton during group start road races, but in a TT there is no-one else for you to impede if you crash, so surely if you are comfortable and skilled enough to control the bike from your position surely it should be fine?

 

[Ripper]

I did my first proper TT last year and they were following the full UCI code for positioning and I had to change my position at the start because of the UCI rules... It is difficult for me to fit in the guidelines as I am quite tall but mainly because don't have particularly typical body shape...

I can understand some of the UCI rules e.g. against those clip-ons they experiemented with in the peleton during group start road races, but in a TT there is no-one else for you to impede if you crash, so surely if you are comfortable and skilled enough to control the bike from your position surely it should be fine?

As I said, some of the rules are pulled out of somone's a**. The angled bars worked really well for some folks, allowing them to be more aero, comfortable and in control.

 

[flicker]

Send me the ZIPP wheels and take that ugly specialized and throw it in the rubbish. It might be quick but it is one ugly bike.

 

[koolstof]

not such 'new' news

I as told the Shiv was iillegal by a reliable aerodynamic source in November 2009!

 

[Big GMaC]

Send me the ZIPP wheels and take that ugly specialized and throw it in the rubbish. It might be quick but it is one ugly bike.

Personally I don't find it ugly at all.

I mean look how the perfectly straight top tube becomes the handle bar set up, not a hint of change. Clean lines. Even the seat tube area is far cleaner than most of the TT bikes today, and the straight down tube looks far superior to those with the lumpen wheel cut out. Maybe the nose section is a bit beefy, but it is an intelligent interpretation of the UCI incredibly innovation constricting rules. I reckon the redesign will maintain much the current layout and change to a front brake incorporated into the fork in the same way at the Trek Speed Concept, which is far uglier than the Shiv with that horn set up for the bars...

 

[the big ring]

I did my first proper TT last year and they were following the full UCI code for positioning and I had to change my position at the start because of the UCI rules... It is difficult for me to fit in the guidelines as I am quite tall but mainly because don't have particularly typical body shape...

I can understand some of the UCI rules e.g. against those clip-ons they experiemented with in the peleton during group start road races, but in a TT there is no-one else for you to impede if you crash, so surely if you are comfortable and skilled enough to control the bike from your position surely it should be fine?

2 words for you: morphological exemption. Anyone over around 6'2" are able to do weird and wonderful things with their bikes. Check out the rules for next time.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I as told the Shiv was iillegal by a reliable aerodynamic source in November 2009!

Yes- it looks that way - certainly Specialized knew the Shiv was illegal at the Astana training camp in Calpe which was almost a month ago*.

"Now for this next year, the UCI has banned another of other things, including putting two non 3:1 systems together to create more than 3:1. So they have now banned our stem. So we're now working on a system that will be very aerodynamic and still extremely stiff, which is utmost impotantance for this bike." 4:46 in this video from Specialized.

* Thanks to Shane Stokes Twitter

 

[Willy_Voet]

The 5 cm rule is another load of crap.

The 5 cm rule is the epitome of stupidity. There is no reason to arbitrarily apply a single distance to riders of different heights (as opposed to an angle). Maybe the UCI doesn't know how to use a protractor.

The best answer I've ever seen was a Flight saddle (they have probably the longest nose) cut down to just ahead of the rails b/c the rider was a bit on the short side. Point being, the rider's position did not change in spite of the 'rule violation'.

 

[IntheMidwest]

Wasn't it Fignon who complained about Lemond's clip-ons in the 89' tour? Why doesn't the UCI let them embrace technology instead of hinder it? These guys are pros, i'm sure they can all handle their TT bikes! And yeah, the 5 cm rule makes zero sense. Riders can be different heights you know!

 

[Big GMaC]

2 words for you: morphological exemption. Anyone over around 6'2" are able to do weird and wonderful things with their bikes. Check out the rules for next time.

will do. thanks

 

[rideitlikeyoustoleit]

I personally think techonogical advancement is another subject area that leaves our community with a "buzz" over the off season, and I love seeing the tour tech articles on what gear the pro's are using..as I know it might be on my bike the following spring! However the rules are the rules, and some sort of fine should be in place for breaking them. Why not? If I know I can't draft in a Triathlon then I don't do it. Simple as. If you know the rules then you know what the limits of your design can be. Prime example is Formula 1, they have rules, and they push the boundaries to gain a tenth of a second here and there and you see some fantastic designs. I am not really a fan of the Shiv, nor the new Giant Trinity. My favourites are the Cervelo P2c and P3 bikes, Pinarello and Felt.

A polint I'd like to bring to discussion is something someone said about the Shiv being the equipment version of doping. If Cancellara et al have been winning on an illegal bike or a "dope bike", then should their results be overturned?

Can of worms springs to mind...

 

[Ferminal]

I personally think techonogical advancement is another subject area that leaves our community with a "buzz" over the off season, and I love seeing the tour tech articles on what gear the pro's are using..as I know it might be on my bike the following spring! However the rules are the rules, and some sort of fine should be in place for breaking them. Why not? If I know I can't draft in a Triathlon then I don't do it. Simple as. If you know the rules then you know what the limits of your design can be. Prime example is Formula 1, they have rules, and they push the boundaries to gain a tenth of a second here and there and you see some fantastic designs. I am not really a fan of the Shiv, nor the new Giant Trinity. My favourites are the Cervelo P2c and P3 bikes, Pinarello and Felt.

A polint I'd like to bring to discussion is something someone said about the Shiv being the equipment version of doping. If Cancellara et al have been winning on an illegal bike or a "dope bike", then should their results be overturned?

Can of worms springs to mind...

It's either part of the sport and you let it develop, or it isn't and you block it all.

No point making random decisions as to which basket to put new stuff into... Or at least make it something for end of season review (not mid race!)

 

[forty four]

i think the shiv and p-4 are the two nicest looking tt bikes highly functional as well.

 

[Ripper]

The 5 cm rule is the epitome of stupidity. There is no reason to arbitrarily apply a single distance to riders of different heights (as opposed to an angle). Maybe the UCI doesn't know how to use a protractor.

The best answer I've ever seen was a Flight saddle (they have probably the longest nose) cut down to just ahead of the rails b/c the rider was a bit on the short side. Point being, the rider's position did not change in spite of the 'rule violation'.

Another great example is the Fizik Arione. For riders who prefer to ride on the back portion of the saddle and move it forward on the rails, with the Arione being 30cm long, some folks have it closer than that 5 cm. I have seen folks being told to move their saddle back on their regular road bike just before a TT, even though it is the same position they use on the road! They even tried to argue morphological reasons, but the commissaire pulled out a plumb line and said "nope", becaue the front of the knee was something like 2 mm in front of the axel. It's just the silliest rule.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Send me the ZIPP wheels and take that ugly specialized and throw it in the rubbish. It might be quick but it is one ugly bike.

LOL. I knew we'd finally agree on something.
The trend towards extremely ugly TT bikes is disturbing.

 

[BroDeal]

LOL. I knew we'd finally agree on something.
The trend towards extremely ugly TT bikes is disturbing.

The trend toward extremely ugly regular bikes is disturbing.

 

[lagartija]

The trend toward extremely ugly regular bikes is disturbing.

ha, i agree, i have an r3sl, and i have always thought it was ugly, but after riding it , and loads of others, i realized it works and it works really well, its like i said earlier are we going to draw a line in the sand at a certain year and call it good...........does that mean we cant ride carbon , or deep section wheels, ..............im all for the technology...........bring on the toys...........

 

[ravens]

Play by whatever rules ya' like....

but for fock's sake, how can someone be told they are going to have to switch bikes MID-effing-race ? Someone at Specialized or Astana totally boned this.

ATTN UCI Rules nerds: Could he just ride his Trek TT bike from last year with specialized astana 2010 graphics?

And if the governing body changes a rule mid-race, which appears not to be the case, someone there oughtta be held accountable.

The bike isn't exactly brand new. This is incompetence.

As for aesthetics it's cool looking, in a Buck Rogers sort of way (or is that Roy Rogers, I always get them confused). But I can understand opposing views.

 

[hfer07]

Yes- it looks that way - certainly Specialized knew the Shiv was illegal at the Astana training camp in Calpe which was almost a month ago*.

"Now for this next year, the UCI has banned another of other things, including putting two non 3:1 systems together to create more than 3:1. So they have now banned our stem. So we're now working on a system that will be very aerodynamic and still extremely stiff, which is utmost impotantance for this bike." 4:46 in this video from Specialized.

* Thanks to Shane Stokes Twitter

thanks for the link-it's evident the lack of clarity from UCI regulations for any bike maker to obtain interpretation & design limitations- although I find a bit fishy what the guy from specialized was saying on the banning-seems to me like they knew it was coming & didn't tell AC about it......

So the current ban on that bike makes Cancellara's World title "illegal"?

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

I don't think Cancellara's world title should be stripped or anything. I only mentioned that for sake of discussion as this ban will undoubtedly affect him. I don't think his ability will suffer. I just think as a TT specialist he will have something to say. That's all.

EDIT: I also want to say I think it's incredibly bad timing. If they knew this was coming, they should have banned the bike before the season started and before teams had a chance to train on them.

 

[theswordsman]

Was it at the Tour last year when the UCI was pointing out problems with TT bikes but not enforcing the new rules? I put way more of the fault on Specialized, because Astana has been with them a really short time - remember the Tour Down Under team didn't even have Astana colors on the bikes - and the new management has had to buy everything including vehicles, get through training camps and a number of races, etc. Specialized had Saxo Bank & knew they needed legal bikes.

The Shiv was designed in Specialized's “Project Black” department, the code name for pro team projects. The designs that come out of “Project Black” often don't make it to the showroom floor, but in the case of the Shiv it was approved and was showcased at their 2010 product launch. The Shiv was designed specifically for road time trials and has aero features such as a nose cone to shield the front brake from the wind and a narrow front profile to slice through the wind. At the launch, Specialized engineers were so confident in their design that they issued a challenge to any bike company to compare their UCI legal bike ProTour bike against the Shiv in a wind tunnel test of aerodynamics.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3167/Contadors-time-trial-bike-disallowed-at-Algarve.aspx

Regulations also dictate that any aerodynamic frame section be a necessary structural member and for this reason Specialized designers mechanically joined the bottom of the nosecone to the fork crown via a 'carbon strap', saying the assembly was required to maintain adequate strength and stiffness to the otherwise minimally supported stem.

Apparently, the UCI feels differently.

Astana had earlier proposed to the UCI that it be allowed to race the bike without the nosecone section while a more permanent solution was developed but in light of this latest development, the team has now had to scramble with seven older-technology Transition framesets reportedly arriving at the team hotel earlier today – and all eight of them must be built, sized, tuned and fully race-ready by Sunday.

Even those frames, though, may require further modification before being allowed to enter the start house. It should be noted that final word from the UCI did not reach the team until late Thursday evening.

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/specialized-shiv-time-trial-bike-banned-by-uci-25105

 

[Carboncrank]

Doesn't it sound like Specialized changed the bike from last year? Just because they call it a Shiv doesn't mean it's the exact same bike Cancellara rode last year does it?

 

[Publicus]

Doesn't it sound like Specialized changed the bike from last year? Just because they call it a Shiv doesn't mean it's the exact same bike Cancellara rode last year does it?

They made an adjustment to the bike to get UCI to give them a pass at the Tour. The UCI has now said that the adjustment is not allowed either. They knew it was coming, but that they thought, like all previous years, they had until July to have the new prototype available. The UCI's decision was unexpected.

So it's the same bike that Saxo Bank used at the Tour that was just banned.

 

[ravens]

They made an adjustment to the bike to get UCI to give them a pass at the Tour. The UCI has now said that the adjustment is not allowed either. They knew it was coming, but that they thought, like all previous years, they had until July to have the new prototype available. The UCI's decision was unexpected.

So it's the same bike that Saxo Bank used at the Tour that was just banned.

As I've said before, the governing bodies and team managemnt of the sport often appears to be 1 part brothel/1 part 3 ring circus/1 part 3 card monte.

This MID RACE 3 card monte decision, in the words of eminent philosopher and philanthropist Cosmo Kramer, seems 'capricious and arbitrary'.

I could understand them saying at the end of last season, in 60 days, the Shiv is out, or them saying today that the bike is not legit 60 days from now, but this kind of idiocy just elevates professional wrestling to near-respectability.

Kramer: Dean Jones, you wanting to talk to me?

Dean Jones: I’ve been reviewing Darren’s internship journal. Doing laundry…

Kramer: …Yeah.

Dean Jones: …Mending chicken wire, hi-tea with a Mr. Newman.

Kramer: I know it sounds pretty glamorous, but it’s business as usual at Kramerica.

Dean Jones: As far as I can tell your entire enterprise is more than a solitary man with a messy apartment which may or may not contain a chicken.

Kramer: And with Darren’s help, we’ll get that chicken.

Dean Jones: I’m sorry, but we can’t allow Darren to continue working with you.

Kramer: Well, I have to say this seems capricious and arbitrary.

Dean Jones: You fly is open.

 

[ravens]

They made an adjustment to the bike to get UCI to give them a pass at the Tour. The UCI has now said that the adjustment is not allowed either. They knew it was coming, but that they thought, like all previous years, they had until July to have the new prototype available. The UCI's decision was unexpected.

So it's the same bike that Saxo Bank used at the Tour that was just banned.

As I've said before, the governing bodies and team managemnt of the sport often appears to be 1 part brothel/1 part 3 ring circus/1 part 3 card monte/1 part halfway house.

This MID RACE 3 card monte decision, in the words of eminent philosopher and philanthropist Cosmo Kramer, seems 'capricious and arbitrary'.

I could understand them saying at the end of last season, in 60 days, the Shiv is out, or them saying today that the bike is not legit 60 days from now, but this kind of idiocy just elevates professional wrestling to near-respectability.

Kramer: Dean Jones, you wanting to talk to me?

Dean Jones: I’ve been reviewing Darren’s internship journal. Doing laundry…

Kramer: …Yeah.

Dean Jones: …Mending chicken wire, hi-tea with a Mr. Newman.

Kramer: I know it sounds pretty glamorous, but it’s business as usual at Kramerica.

Dean Jones: As far as I can tell your entire enterprise is more than a solitary man with a messy apartment which may or may not contain a chicken.

Kramer: And with Darren’s help, we’ll get that chicken.

Dean Jones: I’m sorry, but we can’t allow Darren to continue working with you.

Kramer: Well, I have to say this seems capricious and arbitrary.

Dean Jones: You fly is open.