How can wiggle be so cheap and fast?

[durianrider]

I order here on Wednesday and it rocks up on Monday. I live in QLD Australia btw lol!

How can wiggle send me something for less than wholesale that the local shop would take around the same time to get in for around double to triple the price?

I grabbed a pair of Nike Luna racers for the misses at 81$AUS. They sell around here for 200$. Even when I worked in the bike shop I would shop online.

How can they sell stuff for so cheap in the UK? Then free express ship it all over the world. Have we been getting ripped off all along down under?

What sites have you found for great service, price and range?

I can get specialized tyres from Evans for 50% less than here in Oz. They are made in Taiwan for pennies.

I can get an S Works SL4 frame set for 1800$US in rural Thailand. 3999$ here. Made in Taiwan too.

 

[LugHugger]

If you think wiggle is cheap, try ribble cycles. In almost every case they are less expensive than wiggle. Can't vouch for their shipping costs and express delivery though.

 

[Llewellyn]

If you think wiggle is cheap, try ribble cycles. In almost every case they are less expensive than wiggle. Can't vouch for their shipping costs and express delivery though.

Ribble are my first choice, then Chain Reaction if Ribble don't have what I want. Anything I order through Ribble generally arrives in about 1 - 2 weeks which is fine by me.

Wiggle are expensive compared to those two

 

[Indurain]

Ribble all the way even with the postage. Every now and then Wiggle can be cheaper on a few items. PBK and Chainreaction are okay too. But Ribble rocks

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I order here on Wednesday and it rocks up on Monday. I live in QLD Australia btw lol!

How can wiggle send me something for less than wholesale that the local shop would take around the same time to get in for around double to triple the price?

I grabbed a pair of Nike Luna racers for the misses at 81$AUS. They sell around here for 200$. Even when I worked in the bike shop I would shop online.

How can they sell stuff for so cheap in the UK? Then free express ship it all over the world. Have we been getting ripped off all along down under?

What sites have you found for great service, price and range?

I can get specialized tyres from Evans for 50% less than here in Oz. They are made in Taiwan for pennies.

I can get an S Works SL4 frame set for 1800$US in rural Thailand. 3999$ here. Made in Taiwan too.

Called gray or black market. Been around for decades. Seconds, unrestricted OEM resale, container filling, stuff going out the back door, etc, blah, blah.

Cheak the warranty or to see if the tracking codes have been removed....if they have-seconds and no warranty.

 

[LugHugger]

Called gray or black market. Been around for decades. Seconds, unrestricted OEM resale, container filling, stuff going out the back door, etc, blah, blah.

Cheak the warranty or to see if the tracking codes have been removed....if they have-seconds and no warranty.

Utter nonsense and scaremongering. I have a ribble sourced ultrgra clamp on f/d in my hand with barcode and full shimano packaging and instructions.

 

[kiwirider]

Utter nonsense and scaremongering. I have a ribble sourced ultrgra clamp on f/d in my hand with barcode and full shimano packaging and instructions.

+1 for that.

The simple fact is - and I'm sure that Durianrider knows this and just wants to get people saying it - Australia (and believe me, it's even worse across The Ditch in NZ) is an expensive, and often overpriced, market.

Some of it is due to logistics - although it always cracks me up when stuff made in China apparently costs more to get to that part of the world than it does to where I now live.

Some of it is population - Australasia has about 26m people ... Europe has 740m ... simple maths says that the market must be bigger in Europe - which means lower overheads, more shops (= more competition), etc

And some of it is down to the presence of local wholesalers. I can't speak for the Aussie market, but I know that there are some absolute criminals of wholesalers in NZ. One example I saw last time I was back saw a local wholesaler take over one of the bike brands that had previously been serviced by a manufacturer's office in Sydney. When the manufacturer was the local supplier, prices were about the same in NZ and Oz as they were anywhere else in the world ... With the new wholesaler, they went up 50%!

That same wholesaler sells various brands of components. I could land them cheaper from Ribbles than my LBS could buy them. Bit of research showed that the importer used manufacturer's recommended retail as local wholesale price ...

So, much as it pains me to say so - since my parents owned a retail business for about 30 years before retiring - the smartest thing for Durianrider and others in that part of the world to do is definitely to buy on-line.

Oh, and definitely endorse Ribbles. Also check out Total Cycling in Ireland - often have some really interesting NOS at good prices.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Called gray or black market. Been around for decades. Seconds, unrestricted OEM resale, container filling, stuff going out the back door, etc, blah, blah.

Cheak the warranty or to see if the tracking codes have been removed....if they have-seconds and no warranty.

Absolute falsehoods. If you don't understand what makes these places cheaper, then just say so. Don't lie about it to scare people. I've ordered from PBK, etc. and everything arrived in boxes, with tracking, etc. Same with Totalcycling, XXCycle, Chainreaction, etc.

 

[harryquinn]

I've used Ribble for many years both in UK and since I moved to Oz. They are my first choice - best prices (usually), reasonable postage charges, and pretty fast delivery.

I've bought from Wiggle for many years too. They have the best website but have become rather pricey on most items. I do like their own dhb clothing though - excellent quality and reasonably priced.

I agree that CRC are good too - also PBK and Evans.

 

[Indurain]

I agree
DHB shoes are awesome. Full carbon soles, clips, etc and about $150 AUD. Comfortable. I'd ride on nothing else for the money.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Utter nonsense and scaremongering. I have a ribble sourced ultrgra clamp on f/d in my hand with barcode and full shimano packaging and instructions.

I said 'check', I didn't say, 'they are all removed'. I just installed a set of Record shifers on a customer's bike from these guys and BOTH little barcodes were scrapped off. It's utter nonsense to think these prices are for first tier stuff.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Absolute falsehoods. If you don't understand what makes these places cheaper, then just say so. Don't lie about it to scare people. I've ordered from PBK, etc. and everything arrived in boxes, with tracking, etc. Same with Totalcycling, XXCycle, Chainreaction, etc.

Ok, how do they sell for my wholesale?

Not sure why you are getting so sweated up, I'm the retailer, i'm the one who should be angry, not, I understand the 'system'.

You can believe anything you want. I think I understand how this stuff works, after being in the retail bike biz for about 26 years. If you don't want to believe it, call Campagnolo NA and talk to Jerry. They have been tracking the barcodes on these MO places for more than a few years. They know what path they take.

You are an end user, you have no idea where they get their stuff. Nice boxes and invoices and tracking numbers doesn't mean they didn't get the stuff outta the backdoor of someplace.


But buy it when you can, good for you. It makes no difference to me. I build the bike regardless of where the stuff comes from, I don't care.

 

[LugHugger]

I said 'check', I didn't say, 'they are all removed'. I just installed a set of Record shifers on a customer's bike from these guys and BOTH little barcodes were scrapped off. It's utter nonsense to think these prices are for first tier stuff.

So, volume discounts do not exist in bicycle retail? If you buy 100 inner tubes do you pay the same price as I pay for my spare in my bag? I would imagine that Ribble are selling 1000+ Campag groupsets per annum or speccing them on their OEM bikes. Are you suggesting that their purchasing power does not open discounts which are not available to independent retailers not trading in these volumes? If you are, then respectfully it's not me talking nonsense.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

So, volume discounts do not exist in bicycle retail? If you buy 100 inner tubes do you pay the same price as I pay for my spare in my bag? I would imagine that Ribble are selling 1000+ Campag groupsets per annum or speccing them on their OEM bikes. Are you suggesting that their purchasing power does not open discounts which are not available to independent retailers not trading in these volumes? If you are, then respectfully it's not me talking nonsense.

There is no doubt one of the ways they buy Campagnolo is drive to Vicenza with Euros on hand, lots of them, and buy direct. BUT they aren't making a 'normal' margin, they are deeply discounting the product, relying on volume to make up the difference. In the US, when you do that, you lose the 'right' to purchase more product. In Europe, their are laws preventing a supplier from cutting off a reseller if they deeply discount product.

Some of the items resold do not have the little stickon thing that says warranty will be upheld, I have seen them. Whole groups with all the stickers scrapped off...why is that?

Recently Pinarello 'distributors' have been stripping OE EPS and reselling that, again, no warranty.

Not a lot of OE in Campagnolo but some order 1000 groups, use 750, resell the 250 at a deep discount to.......MO.


Not just Campagnolo, tires, pedals, lots of stuff..

But go buy it, use it...

But seems Wiggle prices are really high..about same as mine $1184 for a SR ti crankset...for instance.

But yes, manufacturer to reseller, no distributor. One less 'layer', volume discounts, sell for low margin...some of them.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

BUT they aren't making a 'normal' margin, they are deeply discounting the product, relying on volume to make up the difference. In the US, when you do that, you lose the 'right' to purchase more product. In Europe, their are laws preventing a supplier from cutting off a reseller if they deeply discount product.

This isn't quite right. There are laws in the US as well. However, the Supreme Court's 5-4 decision in the Leegin case, which superseded the decision under Dr. Miles made resale price maintenance subject to what is called the "rule of reason" rather than a "per se" violation of antitrust laws. This makes it substantially harder for a plaintiff to bring a case. So, now you have Campy's "MSRP Pricing Policy" in the US.

In Europe, the laws are still strict, and resale price maintenance is illegal under Article 81 and much more easily prosecuted.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

This isn't quite right. There are laws in the US as well. However, the Supreme Court's 5-4 decision in the Leegin case, which superseded the decision under Dr. Miles made resale price maintenance subject to what is called the "rule of reason" rather than a "per se" violation of antitrust laws. This makes it substantially harder for a plaintiff to bring a case. So, now you have Campy's "MSRP Pricing Policy" in the US.

In Europe, the laws are still strict, and resale price maintenance is illegal under Article 81 and much more easily prosecuted.

Yep, what i said, essentially. MSRP is upheld in the US by suppliers refusing to sell to retailers that discount their product deeply. On initial buys, a reseller can sell it for whatever they wish, but may not be able to resupply.

 

[Caruut]

Called gray or black market. Been around for decades. Seconds, unrestricted OEM resale, container filling, stuff going out the back door, etc, blah, blah.

Cheak the warranty or to see if the tracking codes have been removed....if they have-seconds and no warranty.

Sorry, because they sell it for less than you do, it's the black market? It's nothing illegal, so why all the chat?

I have my warranty for all the Campy stuff on my bike from Ribble.

 

[twothirds]

He said gray or black market. Black market is stuff that is sold through illegitimate channels. Gray market involves stuff that is sold legally, but through means that circumvent proper protocols.

And you may have your warranty on your parts from Ribble, but you would have to deal with Ribble directly if any of your stuff goes south. You can take it to your local Campy servicer, but when they run the barcodes, and see that they are meant for the Euro market, and not the NA market, then they have the right to refuse to service or replace it.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Sorry, because they sell it for less than you do, it's the black market? It's nothing illegal, so why all the chat?

I have my warranty for all the Campy stuff on my bike from Ribble.

Geee, never said it was black market, never said it was illegal, so why that chat?

Ask to see if they deal with Campagnolo, a warranty center or 'self warranty', like the distributor of Colnago used to do in the US.

 

[ultimobici]

There is a simple reason that the likes of Ribble=, PBK, Totalcycling & Wiggle can charge so much less than RRP.

In the case of Ribble it is because they are a wholesaler trading as Cyclesport North. Ribble is just their retail arm. So when they sell at 20% off they're still making full margin.

PBK et al are big enough to circumvent the regular distribution channels and affectively make themselves a virtual wholesaler.

In all these cases though you may have a full warranty, but it is almost certainly not going to be a case of dropping into your local Campag dealer for it but rather sending it back to the place you got it from. That means the price of saving money is several extra days, weeks or months off the bike awaiting a warranty part. Your choice.

 

[BroDeal]

In all these cases though you may have a full warranty, but it is almost certainly not going to be a case of dropping into your local Campag dealer for it but rather sending it back to the place you got it from. That means the price of saving money is several extra days, weeks or months off the bike awaiting a warranty part. Your choice.

Or your could just buy another one, figuring that the overall cost savings will more than make up for the very few times that a warranty is needed.

 

[ultimobici]

Or your could just buy another one, figuring that the overall cost savings will more than make up for the very few times that a warranty is needed.

True, but you'll still be off the road for longer than if you'd bought it through regular channels and your savings are reduced to boot.

 

[Llewellyn]

True, but you'll still be off the road for longer than if you'd bought it through regular channels and your savings are reduced to boot.

Well apparently it's a risk that many people are prepared to take, me included

Another major reason that people use these places is the convenience - no phone calls only to be told they don't have it in stock and they'll have to order it (which in Australia will mean 1 - 2 weeks before you get it anyway), no driving to a store and finding parking, then driving home etc etc. Just get on a computer, put your order in and it's delivered to your front door.

For me at least, that's a huge part of the reason for using Ribble etc. The savings are an added bonus.

 

[Martin318is]

True, but you'll still be off the road for longer than if you'd bought it through regular channels and your savings are reduced to boot.

Not really. With many items, Wiggle, et al can get a replacement to me here in Melbourne faster than most local bike shops.

(obviously this depends upon the item - if the shop has it in stock then, yes, win. But most of the time if its a single wheel or bars, saddles, frames, etc, the online shops can get it here faster from the UK than the shops can from the Australian distributor)

 

[Caruut]

He said gray or black market. Black market is stuff that is sold through illegitimate channels. Gray market involves stuff that is sold legally, but through means that circumvent proper protocols.

And you may have your warranty on your parts from Ribble, but you would have to deal with Ribble directly if any of your stuff goes south. You can take it to your local Campy servicer, but when they run the barcodes, and see that they are meant for the Euro market, and not the NA market, then they have the right to refuse to service or replace it.

Yeah, I was disagreeing with the implication that Ribble and/or Wiggle were dealing with stuff illegally, when he said black market. "Proper protocol" is, in my opinion, generally just BS designed to rip consumers off. So long as I get the right thing, and no-one is stealing anything, I don't care who gets their precious toes trodden on.