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How clean is Garmin?

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Jun 24, 2009
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Anyone with a son considering cycling for a career who is not trying to encourage him to go in a different direction is a terrible parent.

I used to wonder this about Davis and Connie Carpenter Phinney. They obviously would have a lot of insider knowledge of the drug culture but outwardly seemed to encourage Taylor.
 
kurtinsc said:
Didn't Zabel say that he tried it for a while but then stopped because it didn't help him?
Or that was his explanation for why he happened to stop doping at a time that was coincident with the statute of limitations running out.

kurtinsc said:
Might explain why he was always the best climber of the top sprinters I guess. Does Thor have some 'splainin' to do?
There is doping and there is type of doping. Some types of doping might be particularly effective for climbing - but a sprinter who isn't using that type of doping doesn't clear him of all doping.
 
Mainerider said:
I used to wonder this about Davis and Connie Carpenter Phinney. They obviously would have a lot of insider knowledge of the drug culture but outwardly seemed to encourage Taylor.
It's not uncommon for Mafia bosses to encourage their children to take up the business.
 
dr_wok said:
...

What would you tell your son if he wanted to turn pro?

Just my 2 cents.
That's why I'll never will.:mad:

Blackcat and other posters (Maybe Race Radio) have made compelling arguments about why Wiggins was doping. To me it was clear for Wiggins and not so clear for CVV.

The fact that nobody in the past (Pre 90's) have been riding in the Gruppeto in their first GT's and then start fighting for the podium in the following year looks very suspicious to me. And about the lost weight I have some comments:

1- He did not loose that much weight when comparing from tour to tour. The weight loss seems to have come from when he rode Track to the Tour the France. It is somewhere in this forum, or you just can Google the weights for Wiggo in the GT's.

2- Even if you loose that weight, at that level you must loose some muscle mass somehow. Unless you are doing AICAR.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AICAR

3- How much would the VO2 max improve with the weight loss? I know it goes up but how much? Can it be that it will make you a GT contender from being in the Grupetto in previous years?

Allen Lim working for Radio Shack to help JV's credibility one bit.
 
May 6, 2009
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Mongol_Waaijer said:
Speaking as a British rider, formerly elite, but never having raced in UK (I emigrated prior to starting racing) I have always found the Brailsford position a little worrying.

Especially as they backed Rob Hayles, who rode with Cofidis in their dirtiest era and recently got kicked out of a track WC with a >50% Hct. Ask any physician what the odds are of that occuring naturally and they'll tell you it's nigh on impossible. The reason they set the limit at 50 is that it's the around highest "freak" value range that can be recorded without enhancement.

The micromanagement "control freak" combined with the perfectionist "manging the odds" approach sometimes smacks of an intense desire to guarantee success through preparation, combined with the desire to "spin" explanations along the classic lines of climb recoinnoitring, rice cakes, cadence and all the other BS we've heard before.

Plus jumps in performance....Cummings goes from solid domestic "pro" to top 20 in L-B-L....for example, and Wiggins's "Tour focus" opens up a whole new can of worms.

It would not surprise me in the slightest if they are doing something but in an extremely careful and "safe" way. Not enough to dominate and draw suspicion, but enough to get solid results, yet pass the tests.

LA doesn't really like anyone. In return not many people (who have met him) like him.

I believe BroDeal has a naturally high HCT, if I'm not mistaken. And if I am, I'll blame Alpe d'Huez who posted that once :p
 
Jul 17, 2009
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BroDeal said:
I think he looks more aero in the Cofidis pic, but you cannot go by looks.

I also don't see that he is any leaner in the Garmin pic. He does not look to have 10% less mass to me.


Would you ride the Time or the Felt bike?
 
Mainerider said:
I used to wonder this about Davis and Connie Carpenter Phinney. They obviously would have a lot of insider knowledge of the drug culture but outwardly seemed to encourage Taylor.

Ninety5rpm said:
It's not uncommon for Mafia bosses to encourage their children to take up the business.

Both on the 1984 Olympic team. Need I say more?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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BroDeal said:
I have had mine tested at over 50% several times. According to BPC, I am using dope, so that must be the reason. :rolleyes:
where is our original friend, what is his name. The funny guy, who ends with

"no flames"

lolz, who is he bro, I forgets
 
May 6, 2009
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(Markus and I would assume the same for Thomas as well) Fothen, Cunego, and Ricco all hold UCI certificates for naturally high HCT levels. Whether it is worth the paper it's written on, I have NFI.

Although Ricco as a junior did fail a lot of blood tests and even lost his original pro contract as a result, until it was found his HCT levels are naturally high.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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sure Craig. I have a good labouring job in Dubai for ya, just gimme 5k to fix it up for you.

Cioni et al. None of those cats have natural crits over 50 when they are doing 25k miles per year.

Also, no way Garmin is clean, you got a sprinter winning a dozen, the closest speed to Cav at the Tour, riding 3 GTs, and going strong winning HEW. Then you have their riders tting out of the park. They just monster their tts. Even with the specialty and work on a second chrono bike in the garage, those results need O2 vectors.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
That's why I'll never will.:mad:

Blackcat and other posters (Maybe Race Radio) have made compelling arguments about why Wiggins was doping. To me it was clear for Wiggins and not so clear for CVV.

The fact that nobody in the past (Pre 90's) have been riding in the Gruppeto in their first GT's and then start fighting for the podium in the following year looks very suspicious to me. And about the lost weight I have some comments:

1- He did not loose that much weight when comparing from tour to tour. The weight loss seems to have come from when he rode Track to the Tour the France. It is somewhere in this forum, or you just can Google the weights for Wiggo in the GT's.

2- Even if you loose that weight, at that level you must loose some muscle mass somehow. Unless you are doing AICAR.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AICAR

3- How much would the VO2 max improve with the weight loss? I know it goes up but how much? Can it be that it will make you a GT contender from being in the Grupetto in previous years?

Allen Lim working for Radio Shack to help JV's credibility one bit.
Wigans is Wigans
 
May 6, 2009
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blackcat said:
sure Craig. I have a good labouring job in Dubai for ya, just gimme 5k to fix it up for you.

Cioni et al. None of those cats have natural crits over 50 when they are doing 25k miles per year.

Also, no way Garmin is clean, you got a sprinter winning a dozen, the closest speed to Cav at the Tour, riding 3 GTs, and going strong winning HEW. Then you have their riders tting out of the park. They just monster their tts. Even with the specialty and work on a second chrono bike in the garage, those results need O2 vectors.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I maintain Fothen is not doping. Perhaps he was in the past, but considering how backwards he has gone...
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Garmin is as sanitized as Astana. They just don't have gifted athletes with off the chart LTs that Astana does i.e., Contador and Whatshis Name.
 
Nov 17, 2009
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Mainerider said:
I used to wonder this about Davis and Connie Carpenter Phinney. They obviously would have a lot of insider knowledge of the drug culture but outwardly seemed to encourage Taylor.

From what I read, they didn't really encourage him much. He didn't ride a bike in a race of any kind until he was 17.

They definitely supported him, but I'm not sure they encouraged it.

Compare that to Peter Stetina (who's father and uncle were successful US pro cyclists). His bio says he grew up riding a bike all the time, and he's got resutls in cross country and downhill bike races at the age of 14.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Lion of Flanders said:
That seems strange as the sport of cross country skiing set their level at 52%. Furthermore, there have been several riders (most that you have never heard of and never accomplished much of anything over the years) that had a documented "natural 50+".

The limit in XC skiing is 175 g/l (Hb).
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Mongol_Waaijer said:
Ask any physician what the odds are of that occuring naturally and they'll tell you it's nigh on impossible. The reason they set the limit at 50 is that it's the around highest "freak" value range that can be recorded without enhancement.

Sorry, this is not true. I am a physician and the range of normal hematocrit at our hospital lab is 0.42 - 0.52. for males. This is the range for normal people, not freak values.

Besides, there is a lot more to oxygen delivery than simply hematocrit.
 

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