How dirty is SaxoBank-Tinkoff?

[Tinman]

We're coming to a cross roads in cycling. Those sponsors who want/need to be clean, and those who want exposure at all cost. Can you have both groups going forward?

Question is what is the role of the latter group in the sport, and how does UCI deal with the "change management" required.

Astana, Katusha, Tinkov. And Oleg pushing Andrej Tschmill forward to take over from Pat... Happy days ahead.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

If they are doping then they aren't very good at it, they need to get some better drugs.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Saxobank had a pretty dry year - 40% of Sky's CQ points. Tinkoff coming in = better or at least sustained $, so perhaps fresh blood in terms of riders.

The money is Tinkov's, so I would have to agree he will have say in who gets into the team and who gets to ride which races, surely?

Garmin and Sky have set the tone this year, winning a GT each, and Sky crushing the peloton pretty much all season. 2008 may have been a lull but it will be interesting to see what happens by the end of 2013.

Tinkov is not joining the team because he believes in winning clean. He simply believes in winning.

 

[airstream]

Riis found new doctors after Fuentes that worked with Sastre and the Schlecks and still work with Contador. And one day we will know their names.

 

[gregod]

to all of you citing hamilton as proof that tinkoff is dirty, it would be wise to step back and consider the source. hamilton is not an unimpeachable witness to anything doping related.

furthermore, my memory may be wrong, but i seem to remember the scuttlebutt around tinkoff's first hasty exit from top-ranked cycling was he was having doubts about the cleanliness of the blood of his riders.

that is not to say that saxo/tinkoff is definitely clean. but given their lack of points and riis' tenuous position in cycling, a systematic doping policy seems unlikely.

 

[python]

i've no idea how clean or dirty is their current team, but i do think that tinkoff and riis are almost a perfect marriage.

someone already mentioned it, both are pragmatic cynics. one, of the western-european vintage and another of the eastern-european variety.

riis being the ultimate survivor (recall how he ALWAYS managed to pull through) and tikoff being the ultimate and ruthless nouveauriche crazy about cycling.

to me it means they don't give a shyte about cleaning the sport but will continue to go with the wind...

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Anyone have confidence in this team?

Riis refuses to admit to knowing Fuentes, per Hamilton's testimony.
Oleg Tinkov is now backing the team.
Their lead rider is formerly banned dope cheat Alberto Contador, who worked with Pepe Marti, until the latter's ban.

Team Saxo Bank - Tinkoff Bank better get their doping program up to speed fast, because right now they are getting beaten by Squeaky Clean Teams.

Once a EPO and Blood doper, always ........

 

[Mellow Velo]

I find it odd that Hamilton said he would have warned Riis about Tinkoff, if they were on better terms.
Kind of contrary, (or pointless if you prefer) given what he's said about Riis's links to Dr F.

Still, I'm sure Bjarne can stay clear of further scandal, just so long as he doesn't move to Kilburn.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Anyone have confidence in this team?

Riis refuses to admit to knowing Fuentes, per Hamilton's testimony.
Oleg Tinkov is now backing the team.
Their lead rider is formerly banned dope cheat Alberto Contador, who worked with Pepe Marti, until the latter's ban.

Not true. He stopped working with him earlier.

 

[airstream]

Tour de France 2010. Terrible offender...

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Yeah, like Armstrong 'stopped' working with Ferrari

 

[thirteen]

new TOTO!

 

[Magnus]

You guys are hilarious. Some of you actually think a guy like Tinkov is going to hand over millions and not have a major say in the team.

Seriously. Wake up.

Do you think Lars Seier has a mayor say in the team?
Obviously Oleg is quite a character and the media loves the "contract negotiation with Karpets in front of rolling cameras" kind of thing.
But Oleg was quite clear about his involvement in the team as a sponsor, not a manager, when the sponsorship was announced (I'm sure you think he's lying about it).

 

[python]

tinkoff tweets:

Oleg Tinkov @olegtinkov
@SteveVaughan @lancearmstrong

should I comment on desperate alcoholic who is trying to make some money ?

Steve Vaughan @SteveVaughan

funny how you were quick to criticise @lancearmstrong yet Hamiltons comments suggest you condoned it, any comments now?

 

[jyhjyh]

Oleg Tinkov ‏@olegtinkov

@SteveVaughan I hate doping and never used it when raced myself, however,I am not Don Kihot di Lamance and won't fight wind mills.

Very pragmatic

 

[Fidolix]

You guys are hilarious. Some of you actually think a guy like Tinkov is going to hand over millions and not have a major say in the team.

Seriously. Wake up.

You to mate.

Tinkov have several times pointed to Riis which russian riders he would like on the team and with a russian sponsor I think it´s fair to assume it´s a legit wish.

How many russians are on the team?

 

[Martinello]

to all of you citing hamilton as proof that tinkoff is dirty, it would be wise to step back and consider the source. hamilton is not an unimpeachable witness to anything doping related.

furthermore, my memory may be wrong, but i seem to remember the scuttlebutt around tinkoff's first hasty exit from top-ranked cycling was he was having doubts about the cleanliness of the blood of his riders.

that is not to say that saxo/tinkoff is definitely clean. but given their lack of points and riis' tenuous position in cycling, a systematic doping policy seems unlikely.

Oleg's first team roster was basically identical to the convicted dopers list. Sort of RockRacing v.1.0.

The guy is no stranger to doping and comes across to me as a results oriented businessman.

 

[pedaling squares]

How dirty? Don't know what level they're at today. Riis has to be wary of a ban from his federation, and after all the troubles he had had securing sponsors he is probably terrified of a + test on his team. But there haven't been many + tests under Riis so far, and as long as success means winning I can see SB-T being at the trough with some other teams.

Tinkoff is the sponsor. Not the manager.

An organization's culture is shaped largely by those at the top. Sounds like he was pretty active last time around.

Totally and utterly worthless thread!

Tinkoff's comments to the riders about doing what they must, but don't get caught... Riis' use of PED's... Riis introducing Hamilton to Fuentes, encouraging the use of BB's... Hamilton doing PED's while riding for Riis, Basso blood doping while riding for Riis, Schleck sending $ to Fuentes while riding for Riis, Riis' current GT man fresh off a doing suspension... nope, there's nothing to this thread at all.

 

[gregod]

Oleg's first team roster was basically identical to the convicted dopers list. Sort of RockRacing v.1.0.

The guy is no stranger to doping and comes across to me as a results oriented businessman.

perhaps you should read the second paragraph of what you quoted again.

 

[gregod]

...


Tinkoff's comments to the riders about doing what they must, but don't get caught... .

and this is true base on what evidence? tyler hamilton's statement? hardly a credible source.

tinkov may be dirty, but compelling evidence, this is not.

 

[pedaling squares]

and this is true base on what evidence? tyler hamilton's statement? hardly a credible source.

tinkov may be dirty, but compelling evidence, this is not.

Yeah, Hamilton probably only tells the truth about people and teams we don't like. He told the truth about Lance Armstrong, he told the truth about Johan Bruyneel, he told the truth about USPS, but he is full of crap when it comes to Riis and Tinkoff. Silly Tyler, he even forgot to put that crap in his book where he could have made a buck or two off it.

Or maybe many things that credible source told us were corroborated by other credible sources and helped formed grounds to make a reasoned decision. But he's probably lying about Tinkoff.

 

[gregod]

Yeah, Hamilton probably only tells the truth about people and teams we don't like. He told the truth about Lance Armstrong, he told the truth about Johan Bruyneel, he told the truth about USPS, but he is full of crap when it comes to Riis and Tinkoff. Silly Tyler, he even forgot to put that crap in his book where he could have made a buck or two off it.

Or maybe many things that credible source told us were corroborated by other credible sources and helped formed grounds to make a reasoned decision. But he's probably lying about Tinkoff.

yeah? and how many times did he lie about all of that first? he finally got around to telling the truth when there was no other option and that was the only way he was going to make a buck out of cycling.

relying on him as a source is probably not the wisest decision one could make. tyler hamilton's relationship with the truth is about as tenuous as any politician's.

as i said above, tinkov may be dirty, but depending the twin that didn't vanish as a evidence is confirmation bias at best and foolish at worst.

 

[pedaling squares]

yeah? and how many times did he lie about all of that first? he finally got around to telling the truth when there was no other option and that was the only way he was going to make a buck out of cycling.

relying on him as a source is probably not the wisest decision one could make. tyler hamilton's relationship with the truth is about as tenuous as any politician's.

as i said above, tinkov may be dirty, but depending the twin that didn't vanish as a evidence is confirmation bias at best and foolish at worst.

Probably less to do with making a buck and more about cooperating with the FDA.

Who, other than himself, did Hamilton lie about prior to admitting that he took PEDs? I don't recall him telling tales about others that were later proven false. I don't consider the book of Tyler to be gospel, but I sure don't doubt him either. The thread is asking for opinions about Saxo, and I take his comments about Tinkoff and Riis as two reasons among several to think that they may be dirty.

 

[Fidolix]

How dirty? Don't know what level they're at today. Riis has to be wary of a ban from his federation, and after all the troubles he had had securing sponsors he is probably terrified of a + test on his team. But there haven't been many + tests under Riis so far, and as long as success means winning I can see SB-T being at the trough with some other teams.



An organization's culture is shaped largely by those at the top. Sounds like he was pretty active last time around.



Tinkoff's comments to the riders about doing what they must, but don't get caught... Riis' use of PED's... Riis introducing Hamilton to Fuentes, encouraging the use of BB's... Hamilton doing PED's while riding for Riis, Basso blood doping while riding for Riis, Schleck sending $ to Fuentes while riding for Riis, Riis' current GT man fresh off a doing suspension... nope, there's nothing to this thread at all.

Try to look at things not just in black and white... my point is, calling it how dirty are Saxo... tack along rest of the pro tour team names, then it have its value, hanging out 1 team when they all have the same problem, is completely and utterly worthless!!

 

[Fidolix]

Yeah, Hamilton probably only tells the truth about people and teams we don't like. He told the truth about Lance Armstrong, he told the truth about Johan Bruyneel, he told the truth about USPS, but he is full of crap when it comes to Riis and Tinkoff. Silly Tyler, he even forgot to put that crap in his book where he could have made a buck or two off it.

Or maybe many things that credible source told us were corroborated by other credible sources and helped formed grounds to make a reasoned decision. But he's probably lying about Tinkoff.

I don´t see a thread about Omega, Lotto, Astana etc etc, and btw, Hamilton ****ed up couple of times in varies interviews already about who, where and when, so what he remembers could be questionable when it comes to dates and places, not saying it never happen course it did, but pls dont make him the messias, course hes not.

My other unborn twin... rings a bell?