How many Tour de France would have Armstrong won ?

[Andynonomous]

I know that it is speculative, but how many Tour de France's DO YOU THINK that Armstrong would have won, if everybody (including Armstrong) rode clean ? Just give me a number.

I ask this, because the tennis crowd (MensTennisForums) are asking.

 

[MarkvW]

He obviously would have won zero, because the dopers would have annihilated him.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

He obviously would have won zero, because the dopers would have annihilated him.

You didn't read the OP. It says, "if everybody (including Armstrong) rode clean ?"

My answer: 0

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Re:

He obviously would have won zero, because the dopers would have annihilated him.

You're right. I cannot imagine pro cycling without doping.

You didn't read the OP. It says, "if everybody (including Armstrong) rode clean ?"

My answer: 0

 

[42x16ss]

Agree with none. He might have gotten a win at Liege or Lombardia though.

 

[Archibald]

Re:

Agree with none. He might have gotten a win at Liege or Lombardia though.

maybe... he was juiced for FW, so unlikely to have won that without the assistance

 

[ScienceIsCool]

He had some talent, but was *never* a GT champion, not by a long shot. That was all EPO and whatever other sludge he crammed into his system.

 

[The Hegelian]

Absolutely zero. He was a mediocre TT'er and a 'lose 30 odd minutes in the groupetto' kind of climber. Not even in the game for GT win. His transformation was - well, it was simply unbelievable. I actually left the sport for that period.

Looked to be developing into a pretty great one day specialist though. Not sure what the course was like in Oslo '93, but I would have assumed more of a cobbled classics man rather than a climbing one. Was a real power rider.

 

[The Hegelian]

So to be clear for those tennis folk: he wouldn't even have being going for them.

It's like asking: How many Paris Roubaix's would Andy Schleck have won, if he had balls, the world was flat and the political system was vaguely democratic?

Answer: still none.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

None seems the most sensible answer.

Perhaps you should ask the tennis crowd how many majors Nadal would have won if he and everyone was clean?

 

[Bosco10]

But.. but.. "EvEryOnE wAs dOpInG. iT WaS a LeVeL pLaYinG FieLd."

 

[Jancouver]

I agree with zero but the real question is who would have won all those TdF since all of the guys finishing right behind him were also doped up to their eyeballs.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

I agree with zero but the real question is who would have won all those TdF since all of the guys finishing right behind him were also doped up to their eyeballs.

Short people.

 

[blackcat]

ten.

no one looked like rivaling him.

as long as Madame Amaury did not put in a very mountainous parcours, ten queen stages (sic) and John Waters giving out the KOM polka dot jersey, with only one 40km chrono and a 4 km prologue, it was not within Basso's reach. Floyd would have needed the equivalent motoman and doping inputs, and the route would not have mattered for Contador nor Basso.

Landis was the only one who could have beaten Armstrong on a mano a mano Tour. Ullrich was past it. Kloeden did not have it. Andy Shleck not a strong enough timetrialer, similar with Basso. Contador, would have developed into a strong enough chrono rider, but he had to improve both his chrono and his timetrial, and they have a rule-of-thumb inverse correlation.

Lance woulda won ten straight. And no one would have taken him down. It required Floyd to go supergrass and Tygart to have the intestinal fortitude to see this thing thru. I still think Tygart and JV are on a hiding to nothing, and that anti-doping as a tenet and principle is somewhat incoherent. I think JV is his own worst enemy, cos he has conflicting words and aims, and I think the technical instrument error is bunkum. and he knows you dont win clean in the biggest races. Is it noble or deluded? Is it noble to pick on Olympic sports when you watch Lebron from courtside seats and see his head grow hydra mythology from the androgens

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Absolutely zero. He was a mediocre TT'er and a 'lose 30 odd minutes in the groupetto' kind of climber. Not even in the game for GT win. His transformation was - well, it was simply unbelievable. I actually left the sport for that period.

Looked to be developing into a pretty great one day specialist though. Not sure what the course was like in Oslo '93, but I would have assumed more of a cobbled classics man rather than a climbing one. Was a real power rider.

Gerro with talent

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

I can count to potato

 

[sniper]

how many would've finished the tour riding clean?
any doctor without a steak in cycling will tell you that it's close to impossible to ride the TdF without doping.
you could try but you'd either get sick or surpass the time limit and be disqualified well before reaching Paris.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Re:

how many would've finished the tour riding clean?
any doctor without a steak in cycling will tell you that it's close to impossible to ride the TdF without doping.
you could try but you'd either get sick or surpass the time limit and be disqualified well before reaching Paris.

If they were all clean would the attrition rate not be the same but the times just a whole lot slower? Just asking. I assume you mean a stake in cycling or are doctors getting paid with all that clenbuterol beef these days (courtesy of Contador).

In answer to the thread question - none!

 

[No_Balls]

Zero of course. Didnt showed anything, on the contrary actually, that hinted a Great Tour winner earlier in his career and given all the chemicals used, my grandmother would have won it.

 

[ebandit]

fake

when lance was speaking to the press in the motorola days he said it best

...........something like this 'i'm not the kinda rider to win

grand tours......but will always be up there in single day races'

Mark L

 

[SeriousSam]

Re:

But.. but.. "EvEryOnE wAs dOpInG. iT WaS a LeVeL pLaYinG FieLd."

It wasn't a level playing field because not everyone could dope as much as he did.

But if they had been able to, it would have been. Even if JV gets nothing out of EPO (lol) and Armstrong becomes Wonderboy. It's just that talent in such a level playing field consists both in how one responds to training and how one responds to dope.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

He'd have paid everyone else off so probably no change

 

[BYOP88]

Zero. Might have won the odd stage from a break.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Zero, he probably would have remained a mediocre triathlete.

 

[sniper]

Re:

what if all triathletes were clean too?

the TdF is about dedication, discipline, and willingness to win at all costs and Lance showed a whole lot of that, plus an excellent nous for cheating and since doping isn't the only way to cheat, me thinks he'd still have won at least one TdF.