how much a protour rider SHOULD make ?

[python]

i recall reading some uci report that professional cyclists despite the economic crisis were doing quite well.

im too lazy to go digging but if memory serves they cited the base salaries raises way in access of average inflation rate. also an average pt team rider was making over 100 000 euros and the minimum was around 40 000 euros.

is it really that much ?

i know riders contracts are confidential. still the media reported that contador could be making over 3 million euros, valverde 2.5 million, evans 1.5 mil, basso (even after his doping) 1 million, bruyneel was the highest paid ds - 1 mil etc etc. (btw, does anyone know how much levi andk kloeden make ? )

But how much should they make ? Should the uci and the riders association set up higher minimums ? How will it affect sponsors ? should teams/riders and the sponsors get a piece of the cake (tv rights) too ? What is a fair and viable system both for cycling’s future and the riders ?

finally, can some payment system be used to effectively fight doping ?

Thoughts…

 

[Cerberus]

Why should the riders pay be regulated by anyone other than the riders and their teams?

As for fighting doping I don't see how regulating pay would impact doping, one way or another.

 

[L'arriviste]

Back in '91, I used to chat to a fellow during winter training who rode for a big team of the time in the Netherlands. He was a domestique and he earned what would now be the equivalent of €50,000 which I figured was pretty good back then.

 

[craig1985]

i recall reading some uci report that professional cyclists despite the economic crisis were doing quite well.

im too lazy to go digging but if memory serves they cited the base salaries raises way in access of average inflation rate. also an average pt team rider was making over 100 000 euros and the minimum was around 40 000 euros.

is it really that much ?

i know riders contracts are confidential. still the media reported that contador could be making over 3 million euros, valverde 2.5 million, evans 1.5 mil, basso (even after his doping) 1 million, bruyneel was the highest paid ds - 1 mil etc etc. (btw, does anyone know how much levi andk kloeden make ? )

But how much should they make ? Should the uci and the riders association set up higher minimums ? How will it affect sponsors ? should teams/riders and the sponsors get a piece of the cake (tv rights) too ? What is a fair and viable system both for cycling’s future and the riders ?

finally, can some payment system be used to effectively fight doping ?

Thoughts…

Although teams like Saxo Bank pay more then minimum wage. I guess it is take the money side of things off their riders minds and them concentrate on racing (or more money to buy you-know-what).

 

[movingtarget]

pro cycling salaries

I'm sure an average Pro Cyclist salary is a pittance compared to the average pro basketballer, footballer, baseball, golf, tennis player. Of course the top 20 would be on big money, especially the top 5 but considering how physically and mentally demanding the sport is.....................mmmmm. It's all about ratings and viewers I supppose, which are obviously much higher in Europe for cycling but not so high for the rest of the world.

Track cycling used to be a huge sport and riders made good money, especially the Six Day riders. But road racing seems to be where the money is now except maybe in Japan where legal betting is allowed on the keiren races. Probably some interesting form reversals in that racing. Usually gambling and corruption make good bedfellows. Look at boxing.........no that's too depressing.

 

[python]

Why should the riders pay be regulated by anyone other than the riders and their teams?

As for fighting doping I don't see how regulating pay would impact doping, one way or another.

dont wonna step into the clinic territory, but i'll give you this point - the evidence is rather convincing: heavy fines are a poor deterrent. but could there be another system having to do with earnings ?

Back in '91, I used to chat to a fellow during winter training who rode for a big team of the time in the Netherlands. He was a domestique and he earned what would now be the equivalent of €50,000 which I figured was pretty good back then.

thats a nice amount for that time. the guy must of been good. should be about 300,000 in todays coins. id say a solid domestic on a wealthy pt team makes about this much.

 

[Publicus]

i recall reading some uci report that professional cyclists despite the economic crisis were doing quite well.

im too lazy to go digging but if memory serves they cited the base salaries raises way in access of average inflation rate. also an average pt team rider was making over 100 000 euros and the minimum was around 40 000 euros.

is it really that much ?

i know riders contracts are confidential. still the media reported that contador could be making over 3 million euros, valverde 2.5 million, evans 1.5 mil, basso (even after his doping) 1 million, bruyneel was the highest paid ds - 1 mil etc etc. (btw, does anyone know how much levi andk kloeden make ? )

But how much should they make ? Should the uci and the riders association set up higher minimums ? How will it affect sponsors ? should teams/riders and the sponsors get a piece of the cake (tv rights) too ? What is a fair and viable system both for cycling’s future and the riders ?

finally, can some payment system be used to effectively fight doping ?

Thoughts…

As much as each rider can negotiate for his services.

 

[python]

As much as each rider can negotiate for his services.

you ruthless american capitalist just kidding

i generally agree but i see some flaws in the current system - demands on the riders and their compensation dont match in most cases

was it you who posted a pic of blood soaked impey ? which other sport has so much blood in it ? which other sport ends with at least several crashes per stage and a bunch of broken bones ?

 

[fatandfast]

Why should the riders pay be regulated by anyone other than the riders and their teams?

As for fighting doping I don't see how regulating pay would impact doping, one way or another.

The guy who will pay to ride. The guy who's salary is completely performance based. Guy who is so young that he doesn't realize that getting paid less than 30k means by the time you come off the road it cost you money.pro athletes that get pocket change don't act,look,talk,preform as a professional most times. Having low wages will attract even a lower quality person to the sport....all reason why there should be a min standard pay scale........unable to find a good article,but during the SW US construction boom there were lots of "piece workers" who got paid per unit.Example 4 dollars for every sheet of plywood they installed on the roof,or 5 dollar per 4by8 sheet of drywall they installed in the houses interior. The way of thinking was easy to understand,the guy would be motivated by money and would need little supervision, What happened was the guys would do lots of drugs,take terrible risks,do poor quality work,work 3,20 hour days and then not show up for a week,just like cyclists they needed a minimum standard

 

[rgmerk]

What would I do it for?

To avoid getting into a more general political argument about the fairness of the unfettered free market in labor versus regulation, I'll reframe the question just a little. Say I was 21, a talented rider but perhaps not a world champion, and offered a pro contract. How much would I want to be earning?

Basically, the minimum I'd do it for is an initial salary that provides me enough money to live comfortably while I train full time, and a salary progression that ensures that if I stay in pro cycling for a full career - maybe a decade or so - that I'll have made enough money and established enough non-riding earning potential (through coaching, perhaps) to leave me with reasonable prospects of a comfortable lifestyle after retirement.

 

[Ibanez]

An average of 100k sounds a lot for riding a bike but the Protour is the formula 1 of cycling, everyone else is on pennies.

And it's peanuts compared to many other sports. Cycling isn't a money making sport, so the riders aren't going to be paid too handsomely.

If it were me, and I was say a domestique on a Protour team, it wouldn't take much to keep me happy. A comfortable lifestyle is all I would ever be able to manage, what with being exhausted from riding my bike all day.

Thing is, if I got to live out my dream and race the Tour de France and all the classics every year, I would be happy not earning big bucks because well, I'm riding the Tour de France!

 

[L'arriviste]

thats a nice amount for that time. the guy must of been good. should be about 300,000 in todays coins. id say a solid domestic on a wealthy pt team makes about this much.

Sadly he died before he had enough time to move up in the ranks. If it was in the current era, that would definitely have been a ProTour team though. But I think this figure included the kermesse money and little shareouts of winnings too. Certainly it was a lot more than he'd have earned staying in his own country.

But do you really think the salaries have appreciated that much though? I have no other frame of reference, so I'm as much in the dark as the OP.

 

[L'arriviste]

... if I got to live out my dream and race the Tour de France and all the classics every year, I would be happy not earning big bucks because well, I'm riding the Tour de France!

I agree with these sentiments. Still I think though that at some point you've got to have an outbreak of pragmatism. You need to be getting paid well because if you're lucky enough to be injury-free and moderately successful you've got maybe 15 years in the game and then what? Chances are you've gone in young having skipped the later stages of education and you've got no "joe public" experience. It must be like coming out of the army.

I read a copy of L'Equipe during last year's Tour in which one of the FdJ riders was talking about 'getting out' and spending some of his earnings on a business degree. This guy had really done his homework: he was by no means famous but he'd kept going for a lot of good years and made a lot of connections on the job. The challenge was to make something of it.

On the other hand you've got guys like poor old Thierry Claveyrolat. Cycling for some is like the thing that keeps their lives on track and their brains in gear. When they're no longer big stars raking it in, bad things can sometimes happen.

 

[Ferminal]

Thing is, if I got to live out my dream and race the Tour de France and all the classics every year, I would be happy not earning big bucks because well, I'm riding the Tour de France!

There's something romantic about ProTour cyclists riding their guts out whilst only earning a fraction above the average wage.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I know rabobank pay their riders pretty well.
I remember reading Katusha pay heaps, not sure though.
I think they deserve at least what they get, they work pretty hard almost all year round, and compared to say some of the soccer players they get peanuts.

 

[Ibanez]

I agree with these sentiments. Still I think though that at some point you've got to have an outbreak of pragmatism. You need to be getting paid well because if you're lucky enough to be injury-free and moderately successful you've got maybe 15 years in the game and then what? Chances are you've gone in young having skipped the later stages of education and you've got no "joe public" experience. It must be like coming out of the army.

I read a copy of L'Equipe during last year's Tour in which one of the FdJ riders was talking about 'getting out' and spending some of his earnings on a business degree. This guy had really done his homework: he was by no means famous but he'd kept going for a lot of good years and made a lot of connections on the job. The challenge was to make something of it.

On the other hand you've got guys like poor old Thierry Claveyrolat. Cycling for some is like the thing that keeps their lives on track and their brains in gear. When they're no longer big stars raking it in, bad things can sometimes happen.

Absolutely. Cycling is not like soccer where your earnings are so massive you are set for life post retirement.

Off the top of my head, Serge Baguet became a roofer after he retired (for the first time), and Wim Wansevanent is now working on his families farm. So that is the sacrifice you sometimes have to make.

However Dario Cioni owns a olive oil company and is training to be a sports manager, Serge Pauwels and Rubiera are both trained engineers. It seems it is very much up to the rider to ensure that they have prospects once retirement comes about.

The FdJ rider sounds very clued in, as tempting as it would be to continue to ride well into your late 30's, there is definitely some merit in retiring a bit younger. Pro cycling can't be that good for you, and I wouldn't want to come out of it at 38 with no transferable skills and health issues. Take your 8-10 years of glory, study when you can, and get out of there in your early 30's before it is too late.

 

[wattage]

I'm guessing it's more about keeping your own life interesting than money. I mean sure you can go to school and get a good education, work 9 to 5, get married, have kids, pay off huge mortgage loan and then you can die. But who wants that?

 

[L'arriviste]

Off the top of my head, Serge Baguet became a roofer after he retired (for the first time)...

Serge Baguet! Wow, there's a blast from the past!

Seems like there are a lot of tried and tested things to put your money into: hotels (Roche Marina Hotel), cycle touring (Andy Hampsten's Cinghiale Tours) and the ubiquitous bike tie-in (Lemond, Fondriest, Hampsten again and now Cipo with ISD-Neri).

Or you could always be race organiser...

 

[trekbikes]

wage structure looks something like this,

Pro tour
neo pro €26,000
domestique €32,000 minimum, obviously rising depending on value to team and possible victories up to €70,000
2nd leader (eg second sprinter) €80,000 - €120,000
team leader €120,000 +
Grand tour / Classic potential winner €200,000 +

Pro continental

€27,000 minimum (€23,000 for neo pro)

Continental

These riders are split into with and without contract,

The "with contract" riders are paid a wage by the team €6000-€20,000 a year.

The "without contract" riders are paid either in type, ie team covers accommodation food and expenses, or are paid under the table, or possibly a combination. Some are completely unpaid.

A notable exception is in French and Dutch teams where there is a minimum salary per month of €1000 and €500 respectively.

 

[3rdWheel]

A have question, unless it was answered previously please point it out, who's going to regulate or set the standard salary given the riders status? The riders? I doubt that..the UCI? they can get the doping issue straight. I'm open to hearing any and all answers.

 

[franciep10]

Ok when I started as a neo pro in 1989 I earned $8,000 right out of college but I was also working as a paid intern working close to 4 times as much. As I started to get better as a cyclist I maxed out earning $19,000 after my injury of course and retirement from cycling I was lucky to have earned most of my money as a physicist so I could go back to school and earn a masters degree I would have been out of luck because the money that we earn as cyclists the pain that we go through and how easy it is to get a career ending injury we can't retire and live off our money unless you're name is Contador or Armstrong.

 

[BroDeal]

im too lazy to go digging but if memory serves they cited the base salaries raises way in access of average inflation rate. also an average pt team rider was making over 100 000 euros...

The average does not tell much. It would be more interesting to know the median pay.

If the average is 100K then the median will be much lower, probably in the 50-60K range. A single rider like Valverde accounts for fifty 50K riders. He dramatically pulls the average up.

 

[Yo Momma]

How are the race winnings divided? Does everyone on the team get a share ? And is that part of there salary or a bonus ?

 

[Tugboat]

Interesting press release from the UCI here... Press release : Positive progress in the economic situation of the professional peloton between 2003 and 2009

Riders’ average salary increases


The average salary of professional riders rose from 70,000 euros a year (2002) to 136,000 euros (2009).


The increases were considerable for riders in Professional Continental Teams (2002: 20,000 euros; 2009: 60,000 euros) as well as their colleagues in UCI ProTeams (2002: 100,000 euros; 2009: 190,000 euros).


This means that the majority of riders on UCI ProTeams have a good, or indeed very good, salary. The percentage of athletes in a precarious financial situation in this category has become negligible. As for UCI Professional Continental Teams, an increasingly large proportion of riders can live well – and even very well – from their profession.

Towards the elimination of the "pedalling poor"

It is also notable that the percentage of very low salaries is also decreasing, both in UCI ProTeams (only 15% of riders earn less than 40,000 euros a year) as well as Professional Continental Teams (neo-professionals apart, there are no longer riders who earn less than 27,500 euros a year, whereas over half the group earned under this amount four years ago). This latter result arises from the joint agreements reached by the representatives of the teams (AIGCP) and the riders (CPA).

 

[David Suro]

It is a simple case of supply and demand. It is unfortunate that the salaries are low.

But, for every neo-pro making a starvation wage, there are many top-level amateurs who would gladly ride for the same pay.

I would like to see collegiate cycling become a sport that offers scholarships to riders. That way, riders could advance their opportunities through education in the event they do not become one of the top-tier pros who make a handsome living.

There are thousands of collegiate athletes in all sports who are happy to trade a lot of hard work and dedication to their respective sports for reduced or free tuition for an education. Some are drafted to the pro ranks, some are not. All get to focus on their sport and education.

It is a tough road for cyclists who want to make a living at the sport. I have the utmost respect for every pro who has the dedication to stick it out.