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flicker said:For the sake of arguement, let us take Poulidor, Coppi and Bartoli. If Poulidor, Coppi and Bartoli were on the full medical program, and raced against Sella, Ricco and Pantani what would the results be.
What percentage of Poulidor, Coppi and Bartolis' winning capabilities be enhanced? It is an interesting question, don't you think. I always saw Coppi Pulidor and Bartoli at the top of their game. Would Poulidors long career have been shortened or lengthened. Would Poulidor have beaten Anquentil or Merckx in the GTs if he had had the magic elixers?
Polish said:For every one true champion on PEDs, there will be thousands of wannabe losers on PEDs.
Probably tens of thousands of wannabe losers.
How many body builders on PEDs?
How many are Champions?
PEDs are correlated with wannabe losers?
Not saying PEDs are ineffective.
A donkey will be transformed into a marginally better donkey.
A borderline thoroughbred will be transformed into a marginally better borderline thoroughbred.
A true thoroughbred will be transformed into a marginally better true thoroughbred.
And a Champion will be transformed into a marginally better Champion.
JMBeaushrimp said:Yes. Fuch the guys who would love to race!
According to your logic all those kids who want to race (without dedicating their futures some connected doctor), should pack it in if they're not willing to get on the program.
That would mean that you're more interested in young racers getting hooked up, rather than actually race.
Interesting...
JMBeaushrimp said:They were on the 'program' for the day.
Unfortunately, if we were to wake the zombie racers of yesteryear, it wouldn't help them. The drugs of today are enough to supercede any sort of toughness or 'lazer-like focus'.
To equate the old racers of the old days as an explication of 'why is there doping in cycling' is patently ***.
To borrow an American analogy: it would be like going against top NASCAR machines in a go-cart. The differences are obvious and manifest. As they should be to anyone who doesn't need someone to read this to them.
Keep on being stupid. It gives me something to do.
flicker said:All I want is a percentage on improvement with PEDs. Diffeent types.
Merckx index said:Cmon, Flick, you were here when this was discussed:
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/effect-of-epo-on-performance-who.html
Amazing that someone can start this thread, and it can continue, and a study like this isn't even mentioned.
Polish said:What?
...
Almost as bad as being stupid enough to believe it is possible to be transformed into a Tour de France winner by taking PEDs.
BroDeal said:Typical apologist misdirection that equates all PEDs. Popping an amphetamine or two is vastly different than doctor assisted use of transfustions, EPO, and a grundle of other drugs. Dr. Fuentes had Jesus Manzano on more drugs than the stocking list of a Walmart pharmacy. This is the latest excuse from those who still cling to their idol, trying to convice people that it does not matter how much he cheated, he is still a champion.
c&cfan said:are you talking about merckx, right?
how can limited blood transfusions plus limited epo in a much equal field be better than enough amphetamine to kill you + huge amounts of steroids + anything new (merckx was busted (sometimes the only one) when a new doping test was out.) in a field were only 5 to ten persons could afford them? and between those, only merckx was able to get his own team etc etc.
now, all of them had the same race program and they were amateurs comparing to todays DS and teams. so the best was going to win (in any kind of race) much more than the others. today that does not happen.
so merckx was the "dirtiest" ever. lance can only be close if he was using something new. and even if he used that, today you wont win P-R and M.ventoux no matter what you take.
c&cfan said:are you talking about merckx, right?
how can limited blood transfusions plus limited epo in a much equal field be better than enough amphetamine to kill you + huge amounts of steroids + anything new (merckx was busted (sometimes the only one) when a new doping test was out.) in a field were only 5 to ten persons could afford them? and between those, only merckx was able to get his own team etc etc.
now, all of them had the same race program and they were amateurs comparing to todays DS and teams. so the best was going to win (in any kind of race) much more than the others. today that does not happen.
so merckx was the "dirtiest" ever. lance can only be close if he was using something new. and even if he used that, today you wont win P-R and M.ventoux no matter what you take.
facts.
c&cfan said:are you talking about merckx, right?
how can limited blood transfusions plus limited epo in a much equal field be better than enough amphetamine to kill you + huge amounts of steroids + anything new (merckx was busted (sometimes the only one) when a new doping test was out.) in a field were only 5 to ten persons could afford them? and between those, only merckx was able to get his own team etc etc.
now, all of them had the same race program and they were amateurs comparing to todays DS and teams. so the best was going to win (in any kind of race) much more than the others. today that does not happen.
so merckx was the "dirtiest" ever. lance can only be close if he was using something new. and even if he used that, today you wont win P-R and M.ventoux no matter what you take.
facts.
BroDeal said:Cool story, bro.
Only Merckx and five or ten other riders could afford to use steroids. Uh-huh. Sounds like someone is projecting the Armstrong situation onto someone else. Keep clinging.
c&cfan said:no.. only merckx and five others could buy\use the "something new" part.
look at the anti doping controls.. sometimes only merckx was busted.
well, only he had enough money for some "research".