How will the Tour de France top 17 rule for 2011 affect racing in 2010?

Well UCI points was the old way of deciding Tour participation. Top 16 teams on UCI point rankings and six invitees. I think it was usually decided at the end of April/early May. Seemed to make more sense, 17 is an odd number. Some people were not happy with this system because of the darker problems.

Paul Kimmage argued that the introduction of the UCI points system actually encouraged drug taking. Teams would be scrambling for points coming towards the selection date thus increasing the temptation to cheat. Sprinting for a minor place in a minor race now had significane owing to UCI points available so more and more people were jacking up to score results for themselves and their teams.

But then again, its not like doping has disappeared since thenr, sorry I know this is skimmimg on Clinic material.

As we are on the subject of team selections.

Pop quiz, who were the last team to actually turn down a Tour invitation? I am talking about a proper full team invitation here?

Subaru/Montgomery turned down an invitation in 93 but that was because it was part of a compromise team with Chazal I think.

I think Telekom/T-Mobile and ZG Mobili actually rode as a combined team in 95 need to double check. Hard to imagine Telekom were so bad that they needed a team compromise invite to ride the Tour.
 
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They must have changed the points system since then, because the lower races in terms of points are the likes of Gent Wevelgem, Qmstel Gold and La Fleche Wallone. Tenth place at any of them will earn a rider ten points.

Radio Shack didn't want to ride Giro d'Italia, where points will be available for 21 stages and the overall. That decision kept them from being invited to Tirreno-Adriatico and having seven stages to earn points. Instead they're banking the first half of the season on ATOC where, unless it's changed for this year, no points are offered. They could pay for that decision.

But Radio Shack is being discussed in plenty of other threads, so it doesn't need to happen here, and I think there's plenty of meat in the topic without bringing in things better left to the clinic.

There are teams like Vacansoleil and Saur-Sojasun who really wanted invitations to the Tour this year. The good news is that they have a bit of control over their destiny for next year. The bad news is they're missing out on the three week race with the best chances to earn points.

I read at the AstanaFans website that that the member of the Mutual Coherence Function wasn't too upset with the team's results at Criterium International because there were no UCI points available. I just did a quick count, and there are maybe eighteen races with points left this season, starting with Flanders.

Personally, I think that since the announcement from the ASO, a lot of team managers will be looking at the schedule and steering the cream of the crop towards those eighteen races. Contador, for instance, is next racing at Castilla y Leon, for no points, instead of Pais Vasco. Iglinsky and Gasparotto have points. Grivko raced really well today, but he can beat Millar to win the race tomorrow and it still wouldn't bring the team closer to the 2011 Tour de France invitation.

Will there be some reshuffling of schedules and the allocation of riders based on this decision by the ASO? I think it's going to have a significant impact, and wonder if it was in the works for a bit, or a hasty response to Pat McQuaid saying the UCI should take over?
 
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Here's what's left on the calendar. I don't know the status of the races in Quebec and Montreal, as they weren't on the 2009 pdf download. Will there be two hotly contested races in Canada this year with teams chasing Tour de France invitations?

Ronde van Vlaanderen / Tour des Flandres BEL UPT
Vuelta Ciclista al Pais Vasco ESP UPT
Paris - Roubaix FRA HIS
Amstel Gold Race NED UPT
La Flèche Wallonne BEL HIS
Liège - Bastogne - Liège BEL HIS
Tour de Romandie SUI UPT
Giro d'Italia ITA HIS
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré FRA UPT
Tour de Suisse SUI UPT
Tour de France FRA HIS
Clasica Ciclista San Sebastian - San Sebastian ESP UPT
Tour de Pologne POL UPT
Vattenfall Cyclassics GER UPT
Eneco Tour --- UPT
GP Ouest France - Plouay FRA UPT
Vuelta a España ESP HIS
Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec CAN UPT
Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal CAN UPT
Giro di Lombardia ITA HIS
 
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Rankings and point totals as of March 29.

1 327 caisse d'epargne
2 249 team htc - columbia
3 247 team katusha
4 210 liquigas-doimo
5 209 astana
6 166 rabobank
7 157 bmc racing team
8 132 cervelo test team
9 118 androni giocattoli - serramenti pvc diquigiovanni
10 116 acqua & sapone
11 115 omega pharma-lotto
12 113 cofidis, le credit en ligne
13 101 lampre-farnese vini
14 99 sky professional cycling team
15 93 colnago - csf inox
16 92 quick step
17 92 garmin - slipstream
18 76 team milram
19 76 team saxo bank
20 60 topsport vlaanderen - mercator
21 56 euskaltel - euskadi
22 55 ag2r la mondiale
23 27 team radioshack
24 12 franÇaise des jeux
25 11 bbox bouygues telecom
26 7 footon-servetto
27 6 saur - sojasun
 
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Might as well give you all the info in one place. Again, I have no idea about points, if any, for the Montreal and Quebec races. The page with the UCI points chart is like Narnia - you can't get in there the same way twice.

Gent - Wevelgem
Amstel Gold Race
La Flèche Wallonne
Clasica Ciclista San Sebastian - San Sebastian
Vattenfall Cyclassics
GP Ouest France - Plouay
Top ten places get points as follows:
80 - 60 - 50 - 40 - 30 - 22 - 14 - 10 - 6 - 2
Tour Down Under
Tirreno-Adriatico
Milano-Sanremo
Tour des Flandres -
Vuelta Ciclista al Pais Vasco
Paris-Roubaix
Liège-Bastogne-Liège
Tour de Romandie
Volta Ciclista a Catalunya
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré
Tour de Suisse
Tour de Pologne
Eneco Tour
Giro di Lombardia
The top 5 places in stages or prologues:
6 - 4 - 2 - 1 - 1
The top ten in the final classification for these races earn:
100 - 80 - 70 - 60 - 50 - 40 - 30 - 20 - 10 - 4
Tour de France

The top five places in a stage or prologue earn:
20 - 10 - 6 - 4 - 2
The top twenty in the final classification earn:
200 150 120 110 100 90 80 70 60 50 40 30 24 20 16 12 10 8 6 4
Giro d'Italia and Vuelta a Espana
The top five places in a stage or prologue earn:
16 8 4 2 1
The top twenty in the final classification earn:
170 130 100 90 80 70 60 52 44 38 32 26 22 18 14 10 8 6 4 2
 

Polish

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theswordsman said:
Rankings and point totals as of March 29.

1 327 caisse d'epargne
2 249 team htc - columbia
3 247 team katusha
4 210 liquigas-doimo
5 209 astana
The UCI "Team" classification is a misnomer.
It does not represent the Best Teams - but the best individual efforts.

For example, the "Astana Team" recieved the most points for Paris-Nice.
But that was due to Alberto. The Team actually sucked.

By contrast, the RadioShack Team has won 3 Team Classification in three races III times this year already. The UCI rankings do not care or reflect that:(


 
Polish said:
The UCI "Team" classification is a misnomer.
It does not represent the Best Teams - but the best individual efforts.

For example, the "Astana Team" recieved the most points for Paris-Nice.
But that was due to Alberto. The Team actually sucked.

By contrast, the RadioShack Team has won 3 Team Classification in three races III times this year already. The UCI rankings do not care or reflect that:(


Because the point system values . . . WINNING more than just hanging around in the top 20. Perhaps if Radio Shack could manage a win, they would be higher in the rankings.

On another note, how is this going to work with the transfer system? Take Astana for example, they get into the Tour next year, but their team will likely be a shell of its former self if AC leaves as expected. And whatever team he goes to either may not be in existence (say the allegedly new Spanish team) or had a crappy year (say he goes to Radio Shack (just for the sake of argument)). I guess the answer is the wild card system, but I wonder if that will affect off season transfer decisions.
 
BroDeal said:
Every single pro race should have points available, even if it is very few compared to the large races.
+1 This is my big problem with the current World Ranking program. It only includes like 25% of all the races the pro tour teams race in a year or less even. It makes it into a real crapshoot. Also I think it's very stage race heavy. All the monument classics are there but they are alot easier to mess up in my opinion. Look at Cervélo for example. Their classics season might be totally ruined by Hushovds illness and Hausslers injury and that means their strongest part of the year to collect points is severely diminished and Sastre could theoretically be the one to suffer from it.

They should simply bring back the old world ranking which is pretty much the current CQ ranking. That would make it alot more fair over the course of the year.
 
ingsve said:
+1 This is my big problem with the current World Ranking program. It only includes like 25% of all the races the pro tour teams race in a year or less even. It makes it into a real crapshoot. Also I think it's very stage race heavy. All the monument classics are there but they are alot easier to mess up in my opinion. Look at Cervélo for example. Their classics season might be totally ruined by Hushovds illness and Hausslers injury and that means their strongest part of the year to collect points is severely diminished and Sastre could theoretically be the one to suffer from it.

They should simply bring back the old world ranking which is pretty much the current CQ ranking. That would make it alot more fair over the course of the year.
What you describes sounds much fairer than selectively awarding points at certain races. Obviously the bigger races (monuments, Historical calendar) should have more points, but all races should award points.
 
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:confused:What a mess.:eek:
It's like having a randomly moving finish line to a race, with none of the riders being privy to it's location until after someone announces the results.:rolleyes:
 
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Very Interesting / Good work swordsman.

I think it will be interesting (overusing that) to see how this changes things regarding race targeting.

The Shack(TM etc...) might be struggling to get the points. But if he stays Armstrong will guarantee a Tour invite.
 
Publicus said:
Because the point system values . . . WINNING more than just hanging around in the top 20. Perhaps if Radio Shack could manage a win, they would be higher in the rankings.

On another note, how is this going to work with the transfer system? Take Astana for example, they get into the Tour next year, but their team will likely be a shell of its former self if AC leaves as expected. And whatever team he goes to either may not be in existence (say the allegedly new Spanish team) or had a crappy year (say he goes to Radio Shack (just for the sake of argument)). I guess the answer is the wild card system, but I wonder if that will affect off season transfer decisions.
My immediate solution would be that the points stay with the rider, so if dude goes to a new team, that new team inherents his points/lack thereof.

Of course, this hurts a team that worked its tail off for one guy to win a big race. If that guy goes to another team next year, he takes the points that the team was instrumental in him earning.

If the points stay with the team, then that's a tool for teams to use in contract negotiations with riders who might want to relocate or ask for more money. "You can leave for more cash if you want, but you know that team isn't going to the Tour and we have all the points you earned."

Conversely, if the points go with the riders, it will be a negotiating tool for them to get more money from their current employer. "Pay up or I'm out and Team X is going to the Tour instead of Team Y."
 
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I'm going to be very interested to see what the points look like going into the Tour... specifically the Radio Shack angle.

While I don't think RS can win the TDF... I can see them getting a couple of riders in the top 10 and maybe a couple more in the top 20. They could be looking at 150-200 points from the race pretty realistically.

Will that put them comfortably above the #17 line? That will be interesting.
 

Polish

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The Points System also devalues the worth of the in-the-trenches watercarrying
domestiques who work their keesters off for zero points.
 
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mr. tibbs said:
My immediate solution would be that the points stay with the rider, so if dude goes to a new team, that new team inherents his points/lack thereof.

Of course, this hurts a team that worked its tail off for one guy to win a big race. If that guy goes to another team next year, he takes the points that the team was instrumental in him earning.

If the points stay with the team, then that's a tool for teams to use in contract negotiations with riders who might want to relocate or ask for more money. "You can leave for more cash if you want, but you know that team isn't going to the Tour and we have all the points you earned."

Conversely, if the points go with the riders, it will be a negotiating tool for them to get more money from their current employer. "Pay up or I'm out and Team X is going to the Tour instead of Team Y."
Maybe they should split the points?

If AC wins 500 points this year... 250 stay with the team and 250 go with him to the new team.
 
BroDeal said:
Every single pro race should have points available, even if it is very few compared to the large races.
Yes, i completely agree.

If the system works like this then largely irrelevant races like the Tour of Poland, the two new Canadian races or the ENECO Tour have major implications for Tour participation, while races like a bunch of great races like Omloop Het Nieuwsblad or Paris-Tours are meaningless. Also if there are teams which dont get invited to many big races, how do you expect them to get points in the first place? All cat.HC races should at least count to some extent for sure.

At least they'll still leave themselves with a max of 5 wild card slots potentially.
 

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