How will the Tour respond to the Giro?

[BroDeal]

When the Giro used gravel climbs a few years ago, the Tour director said he would look into doing the same. Nothing happened. The Tour has floated the idea of starting in Montreal. Nothing happened, and now the Giro will start in D.C. Prudhomme is claiming that the Giro's stage 7 was a response to this year's Tour stage with cobbles. That he would try to claim some credit for the Giro stage means he is aware of that the exciting racing in the Italian race is overshadowing the racing in his own race. How will the Tour respond?

 

[scribe]

Stage 10 proposal is in the works. A parachute (with bike) time trial @ 30,000 ft over Paris. Gonna be some real fireworks.

 

[krebs303]

How will the Tour respond?

arrogance

: ar·ro·gance
Pronunciation: \ˈer-ə-gən(t)s, ˈa-rə-\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century

: an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions

 

[Anonymous]

I still have not forgiven them for Stage 9 last year. It was the best example of what the Tour has become. A boring formula with no apparent desire on their part to innovate. Tour de Boring.

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

I don't know how the tour will respond, but if favourites like Contador have their tour ruined by a pile up on the cobbles then there will be an outcry.

 

[Polish]

The "Old School" Crappy Road Motif already grown stale sigh...

But how about an ITT on Futuristics Bikes looping around the Futuroscope Theme Park? Epic and Awesome and Sweet.

 

[ingsve]

What I'm hoping for most is that they have learnt from last year. Last years tour was horrible in the way that the riders approached it and that has to change.

The Giro this year had the potential of being similar since all the action is in the last week but so far that is far from being the case. It might just be that they have "lucked out" by the crashes that have mixed things up for the favourites to make it interesting but the gravel stage was certainly their doing.

If the trend moves towards more action in the later stages of a GT then they might have to find a formula to get the liveliness of this years giro but in a more controlled way.

 

[Race Radio]

Puy de Dome ITT?

 

[luckyboy]

Puy de Dome descent TTT?

 

[pkreed71]

Better yet...

TTT up le Alpe d'Huez. Now that's a time trial.

 

[RedheadDane]

Puy de Dome descent TTT?

With Fränk Schleck in it? Sounds like a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad idea!
Descenting and TTing... not excactly his faves...

 

[Magnus]

I don't think last years tour was horrible. I think there was some really great racing. With a rider being completely superior in mountainstages and in TT(at least superior to any other GC candidate) and having, probably the best ever team, at least with regards to number of previous GT podiums, no route containg mountains and TT's would ever give an interesting battle for GT (they could have dropped the TTT but that was entertaining).

Sure a lot of the entertainment wasn't on the final MT, but I've great memories:

Beautiful short TT in Moncao.
Columbia splitting things up in the crosswind.
The TTT, as mentioned, with LA within a sec of the MJ.
Voeckler finally getting a TDF stage win.
The thrilling uphill finish in the rain in Barcelona.
Young french rider on tiny french team winning a mtf and Contador getting in front of Armstrong in GC.
Seroius GC contenders attacking on the first mountain at stage 8.

That's just from the first 8 stages.

Sure stage 9 wasn't what it could've been and Mt Ventoux didn't blew the race apart the way everybody had hoped.

In general I think people are too focused on the terrain making the race in stead of the riders.

A stage with mountains in the middle and along stretch in the end (as stage 9 of last TDF) can have a huge impact on a GT (remember Pamplona in 96. Sure the race was pretty much settled, but that was a serious gap).

 

[Libertine Seguros]

>In general I think people are too focused on the terrain making the race in stead of the riders.<

Well, since the riders weren't going to make anything of that race, something had to!

The kind of memories you've taken there could be taken from any Grand Tour.

Here's last year's Vuelta, not the most popular of Grand Tours:

- Cancellara beating bad weather to crush the opposition in the prologue
- The enormous and scary pile-up in Liège that decimated the péloton, and Fuglsang's bone-exposing excursion into an oil tanker
- The emergence of Tom Boonen as a TT threat
- David Moncoutié getting into the break and going for broke on the first MTF
- Johnny Hoogerland, then mostly unknown, clinging desperately to Moncoutié's back wheel
- Damiano Cunego being reborn as a climber, leaving everyone behind and pulling Moncoutié back in the last 500m for the stage win

- that was just in the first 8 days too.

No, the problem with last year's Tour was not that the riders didn't attack, it's that no reason was given for them to do so. Stage 9, over the Tourmalet, with 70km of flat after it? Who the hell is going to attack and try to TT away from the bunch for 70km? Certainly nobody in any GC position. When Óscar Freire and José Joaquín Rojas are sprinting for 3rd on a HC mountain day, you've made a mess of the route. And if Caisse's chase had been a bit more organised they could have won the stage, you know.

 

[Boeing]

When the Giro used gravel climbs a few years ago, the Tour director said he would look into doing the same. Nothing happened. The Tour has floated the idea of starting in Montreal. Nothing happened, and now the Giro will start in D.C. Prudhomme is claiming that the Giro's stage 7 was a response to this year's Tour stage with cobbles. That he would try to claim some credit for the Giro stage means he is aware of that the exciting racing in the Italian race is overshadowing the racing in his own race. How will the Tour respond?

good point

In general they will scoff anything they didn't think of first then take it as their own later. as is the norm

 

[theswordsman]

A couple of things really hurt the Tour last year. One was that other sprinter teams refused to do any of the work with Columbia because they figured Cavendish would win anyway. Another was the Team Time Trial that had teams crashing on corners or running into a field, with no limit on how much of a time loss they could suffer. That left some GC "contenders" far enough back that they lost interest. I don't like the idea of twenty two teams this year, but hopefully it will mean there are more teams and riders willing to animate things, get in breaks, go for stage wins or compete for a jersey. I wish Vacansoleil had been invited.

 

[Magnus]

> No, the problem with last year's Tour was not that the riders didn't attack <
Because they did

Anyway... My point's that people tend to scream for a route that's extremely decisive, and when they get it they scream about the race being over before it begun.

And sure you can find those memories in each GT. Imo the racing in tdf 09 was very good, just not about the GC (but the GC was never gonna be interesting given AC's strength).

Imo mtf are easier for a superior gc-contender to control than 70 km flat (off course we never got to see that because nobody tried).

 

[Von Mises]

Tour is so big and dominant over other tours, that they have lost incentives (and need) to take risks. And if its not broken (money way), why fix? And riders are putting too much cards on tour, it supports attitude of defencive riding.

 

[Andre.J]

The Giro has nothing interesting until Saturday.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

> No, the problem with last year's Tour was not that the riders didn't attack <
Because they did

Anyway... My point's that people tend to scream for a route that's extremely decisive, and when they get it they scream about the race being over before it begun.

And sure you can find those memories in each GT. Imo the racing in tdf 09 was very good, just not about the GC (but the GC was never gonna be interesting given AC's strength).

Imo mtf are easier for a superior gc-contender to control than 70 km flat (off course we never got to see that because nobody tried).

I am usually one of the people that say "the riders make the racing, not the route".

However what has happened at the Tour recently, with the lack of MTF's, promotes defensive riding.

Tour is so big and dominant over other tours, that they have lost incentives (and need) to take risks. And if its not broken (money way), why fix? And riders are putting too much cards on tour, it supports attitude of defensive riding.

Personally, I think you've nailed it.

The Tour made €30million profit last year!
They are big business. They are more interested in bringing the Tour to towns and MTF's that can afford the massive rates they charge.

If you watched the Giro - they are finishing in small towns, like Moltancino with hilly finishes. There are plenty of similar sized towns in France but ASO/EPA appear to have adopted the 'why fix it?' attitude you mentioned.

 

[El Imbatido]

Puy de Dome ITT?

Puy de Dome descent TTT?

Better yet...

TTT up le Alpe d'Huez. Now that's a time trial.

Or better yet a Paso de Gois ITT. Depending on your start time you could be fcuked

 

[dgodave]

...people tend to scream for a route that's extremely decisive, and when they get it they scream about the race being over before it begun....

So very true.
.

 

[Ferminal]

The Giro is a race, the Tour is a procession.

The Tour doesn't need to do anything to maintain a racing image/culture because the commercial chips are stacked well and truly in their corner.

For fans of season long racing though, 3 MTFs and 9 dead flat stages is getting boring rather quickly.

The best racing is the first 150km, but instead you get TV coverage of the last 100km.

 

[Cerberus]

> No, the problem with last year's Tour was not that the riders didn't attack <
Because they did

Anyway... My point's that people tend to scream for a route that's extremely decisive, and when they get it they scream about the race being over before it begun.

And sure you can find those memories in each GT. Imo the racing in tdf 09 was very good, just not about the GC (but the GC was never gonna be interesting given AC's strength).

Imo mtf are easier for a superior gc-contender to control than 70 km flat (off course we never got to see that because nobody tried).

It's not that we didn't get to see because no one tried. The fact that no one tries is testimony to the fact that a GC contender can't break away on the flat. It's almost impossible. Sure a superior GC contender can control the race on a MTF, assuming he doesn't have a bad day, but any GC contender can control a flat race, whether he's superior or inferior, whether he has a good day or a bad. All he needs is a team.

 

[barn yard]

The best racing is the first 150km, but instead you get TV coverage of the last 100km.

i dont really understand the purpose of a stage like this at all

if anything it is a bit disrespectful to historic climbs like the tourmalet

 

[42x16ss]

The Giro is a race, the Tour is a procession.

The Tour doesn't need to do anything to maintain a racing image/culture because the commercial chips are stacked well and truly in their corner.

For fans of season long racing though, 3 MTFs and 9 dead flat stages is getting boring rather quickly.

The best racing is the first 150km, but instead you get TV coverage of the last 100km.

That stage profile is a perfect example. It was a waste of 3 of the Tour's more famous climbs, because the put in another 60km after the Col d'Aubisque!!! This could be a stage for a classic GC battle - but noooo, it becomes one for opportunists and breakaway specialists at best. This has frustrated me re: the TdF for the last few years now!