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How will the Tour respond to the Giro?

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Christian said:
In my opinion, the the Giro needs to pull off stunts like Amsterdam, Venice, D.C., Strade Bianche, etc. in order to stay in the international focus.

The Tour doesn't need that. Millions of people will watch it and will stand on the side of the road regardless of its parcours. It's just like a soccer World Cup, except every year.

So therefroe I don't think the Tour doesn't need to and probably won't "respond" to the show that the Giro is pulling off in any way, cause they simply don't need to.

I think the Giro is growing. It has much better international participation now than it did five years ago. Most real fans prefer it to the Tour hands down. I think that--eventually--putting on a better show than the Tour will pay off.
 
I don't agree with those that say it's about the riders, not the route. While I admit I don't get as excited leading into the Giro as I do for the Tour (or Vuelta; what can I say, I'm one of the few guys that loves the Vuelta :eek:) due to the riders involved, it's the route that makes the racing fun to watch. This Giro is a good case in point. I wasn't really into it leading up to the race, but most of the actual racing has been really exciting.

Fwiw, I thought the Tour had a great 1st week in 2008 and that was definitely due in part to the parcours.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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I have half a mind to go dig up that thread of people complaining that the Giro would be boring because Contador and the Schleck's weren't there and make them eat their words.
 
May 18, 2010
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Bring back climbing

I believe the tour should bring back stages like the one in 2000 to hautacam(the most underutilized climb in tour history),maybe try some new mountains in the alps and pyrenees.Maybe even dip into pais vasco for a short while or the swiss alps(not verbier).Also make the time trials near worlds length(no more ttt ever).It should have a prologue,3 or 4 sprinters stages,3 or 4 will they/won't they stages,2 tt stages,9 climbers stages,and of course champs elysses.
mountain passes I would use:
Tourmalet
Aspin
Pyresoude
Hautacam
Arcalis
Alpe d' Huez
Galibier
Ventoux
Sestrieres
Isola 2000
Columbiere
Prato Nevoso
La Bonette
Maybe add some new ones as well
 
Apr 8, 2010
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yellowstone42 said:
I believe the tour should bring back stages like the one in 2000 to hautacam(the most underutilized climb in tour history),maybe try some new mountains in the alps and pyrenees.Maybe even dip into pais vasco for a short while or the swiss alps(not verbier).Also make the time trials near worlds length(no more ttt ever).It should have a prologue,3 or 4 sprinters stages,3 or 4 will they/won't they stages,2 tt stages,9 climbers stages,and of course champs elysses.
mountain passes I would use:

Well isn't that pretty much what they did this year?

Also: with the mountains you sugest you'ld need at least 5 stages in the alps, unless my geographical memory's lost.

edit: ok there are only 8 mountain stages and one long tt.
 
Ferminal said:
The Giro is a race, the Tour is a procession.

The Tour doesn't need to do anything to maintain a racing image/culture because the commercial chips are stacked well and truly in their corner.

For fans of season long racing though, 3 MTFs and 9 dead flat stages is getting boring rather quickly.

tdf2010stage16profile_600.gif


The best racing is the first 150km, but instead you get TV coverage of the last 100km.

My main hope for this stage is that the leader or his team is starting to crack, encouraging other teams to try and blow the race apart early on. There is a rest day the next day so maybe that will give rival teams extra encouragement.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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I wonder if the Strade Bianche would have been half as exciting or epic without the rain, though? And there have been a lot of complaints from the riders about the organisers playing fast and loose with their safety and livelihood - especially in Holland.

The Giro has only grown since the implementation of the hated ProTour - before that it was, like the Vuelta, an entirely parochial race inviting all the Italian teams + 1 or 2 others. Now, as Zomegnan has pointed out, the sport in Italy is suffering and the 'non traditional' nations are doing well - another factor in all this Giro love?

Don't get me wrong, the Giro is a redoubtable race with its own epics and legends and Zomegnan has set another challenging parcours this year. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't - look at Contador's win, for example, where there was so much defensive riding because some of the challenges were too extreme and it negated the kind of exciting, attacking riding we all love. Designing a parcours that allows great racing is about a lot more than just having MTF after MTF - go and look at some of the truly epic GTs of the past. This first week in the Giro has been consistently exciting but what will be the mood if week 3 is a damp squib after several pianissimo stages?

Personally I don't think any one is better than the others - they all have their charms, their innovations, their history, their myths, their epic stages. The 'true fans value the Giro above the Tour' is sheer snobbery to define yourself as anything but a 3WF. I think this year, with the favourite on a more open and aggressive team who have had a fine early season campaign, we'll see some interesting tactics in the TdF this year. There are many factors that make an epic race - parcours, riders, rivalries - and many intangibles - weather, early nerves, crashes - that alter its pattern irrevocably from day to day.

So why don't we just enjoy what each of the GTs has to offer instead of playing 'I'm a more proper fan than what you are'?
 
Andre.J said:
The Giro has nothing interesting until Saturday.

When you can stop watching a grand tour for 6, 7 or 8 days without missing any action because there is none, then that' when it's time to tweak the formula.

Here are my suggestions-

1) Every stage with mountains should end with a mountaintop finish, with a bare minimum of at least 8 stages per tour. The mountain stages don't have to be long. In fact, I think if the mountain stages were shorter we would see more attacking riding.

2) There should be a prologue, a flat time trial and a mountain time trial.

3) The sprint stages should be shortened. No need to ride 220km for a stage to end in a sprint.

4) Either add more rest days or shorten the time from 3 weeks to 2 and a half. Three weeks is too long.

There. I've just fixed the problems with all three major grand tours. :):):)
 
Jun 16, 2009
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BroDeal said:
I think the Giro is growing. It has much better international participation now than it did five years ago. Most real fans prefer it to the Tour hands down. I think that--eventually--putting on a better show than the Tour will pay off.

+1

In Aus, we actually are getting updates of the giro on our radio news which is quite surprising. That maybe be somthing to do with aussie success but that publicity is good for aussie cycling.
 
@biancigirl: Excellent post (as usual :) ).

Each grand tour has it's own personality and in my opinion, it's own distinctive appeal. I don't believe any of them try to be anything that it's not.
I personally love watching them all and get giddy and nervous at the start of each one, me being a climbing obsessed fan. I love the epic drama that unfolds in the 3 week events. Admittedly I do think that each event looks at the other seeing what works and what doesn't. The Giro and Vuelta tend to be more on the edge with their parcours while the Tour is definitely more formulaic since they are the original, the biggest and most powerful.
 
Mar 9, 2010
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make cavendish wear a 50lb. backpack in the sprints.

in addition to banning radios, they could also ban modern technology like gears. make them ride single speed steel frame bikes.

they should also be required to wear their own tires over their shoulders so they can change flats themselves.

they could make a drinking game out of it. have kegs of beer at the mountain and intermediate sprints. the auto bus should be required to pass around a jug of red wine.

they could bring in tobacco sponsors and hand out cigarettes at the feed zones. there's big money here.

they need to bring back the wool jerseys too.

how about an mma type situation where you introduce completely off-road stages? have at least two mountain bike stages and a cyclo-cross stage. throw in a bmx stage too while we're at it.

what if the prologue was raced entirely on beach cruisers?
 
Berzin said:
When you can stop watching a grand tour for 6, 7 or 8 days without missing any action because there is none, then that' when it's time to tweak the formula.

Here are my suggestions-

1) Every stage with mountains should end with a mountaintop finish, with a bare minimum of at least 8 stages per tour. The mountain stages don't have to be long. In fact, I think if the mountain stages were shorter we would see more attacking riding.

2) There should be a prologue, a flat time trial and a mountain time trial.

3) The sprint stages should be shortened. No need to ride 220km for a stage to end in a sprint.

4) Either add more rest days or shorten the time from 3 weeks to 2 and a half. Three weeks is too long.

There. I've just fixed the problems with all three major grand tours. :):):)

+10000000000

Especially to #3. Sprint stages are ridiculous.
 
yellowstone42 said:
I believe the tour should bring back stages like the one in 2000 to hautacam(the most underutilized climb in tour history),maybe try some new mountains in the alps and pyrenees.Maybe even dip into pais vasco for a short while or the swiss alps(not verbier).Also make the time trials near worlds length(no more ttt ever).It should have a prologue,3 or 4 sprinters stages,3 or 4 will they/won't they stages,2 tt stages,9 climbers stages,and of course champs elysses.
mountain passes I would use:
Tourmalet
Aspin
Pyresoude
Hautacam
Arcalis
Alpe d' Huez
Galibier
Ventoux
Sestrieres
Isola 2000
Columbiere
Prato Nevoso
La Bonette
Maybe add some new ones as well

We need a mountaintop finish on Le Mont du Chat and an ITT to Pic du Midi.

I'd love to see a stage that climbs Col du Sarenne on the way to a stage finish at Les Deux Alpes.
 
Feb 14, 2010
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Ferminal said:
The next stage is going to be very boring, flat sprinter's stage :rolleyes:

:D Yep, they've just done seven days in a row, with rain, mud, crashes and attacks, and tomorrow they're doing an 150 mile roller coaster ride. I'm really enjoying the race, and I look forward to tomorrow, especially if some Italians decide to give it the old college try in a break.
 
May 18, 2010
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Magnus said:
Well isn't that pretty much what they did this year?

Also: with the mountains you sugest you'ld need at least 5 stages in the alps, unless my geographical memory's lost.

edit: ok there are only 8 mountain stages and one long tt.

the ventoux is on the outskirts of the alps,so it would be 4 pyrenees stages,3 alps stages,the ventoux,and maybe a vogues or chartreuses stage.
 
May 18, 2010
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valentius borealis said:
We need a mountaintop finish on Le Mont du Chat and an ITT to Pic du Midi.

I'd love to see a stage that climbs Col du Sarenne on the way to a stage finish at Les Deux Alpes.

I looked at those love your suggestions.
 

Barrus

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Does anyone think the Tour can really top this years giro on the crazy-scale? This years Tour will be absolutely boring compared to this years Giro.
But I do agree with most of the posters here, less completely flat stages, no neutered mountain stages
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Barrus said:
Does anyone think the Tour can really top this years giro on the crazy-scale? This years Tour will be absolutely boring compared to this years Giro.
But I do agree with most of the posters here, less completely flat stages, no neutered mountain stages

The tour won't be crazy and random, no.

The best tour rider will win the tour. Not the luckiest guy still standing.

The tour will be all about the cycling.
 

Polish

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Ferminal said:
The Giro is a race, the Tour is a procession.

The Tour doesn't need to do anything to maintain a racing image/culture because the commercial chips are stacked well and truly in their corner.

For fans of season long racing though, 3 MTFs and 9 dead flat stages is getting boring rather quickly.

tdf2010stage16profile_600.gif


The best racing is the first 150km, but instead you get TV coverage of the last 100km.
barn yard said:
i dont really understand the purpose of a stage like this at all

if anything it is a bit disrespectful to historic climbs like the tourmalet
42x16ss said:
That stage profile is a perfect example. It was a waste of 3 of the Tour's more famous climbs, because the put in another 60km after the Col d'Aubisque!!! This could be a stage for a classic GC battle - but noooo, it becomes one for opportunists and breakaway specialists at best:mad:. This has frustrated me re: the TdF for the last few years now!


Guys, from the ASO's perspective THAT stage was extremely successful!

There were over a million fans along the roadside and in the finishing town.
It was truly a spectacle.

The number of fans along the road in the run in to the finish was incredible.
The finishing town was JAM PACKED plus.

Agree that watching it race-wise on TV/InterWebs was not as cool.
You really had to be there to understand the reasoning for the Route.