Hushovd not entirely happy with Garmin-Cervelo

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maltiv said:
Oscar Freire isn't fast enough anymore, Thor usually beats him in those kind of sprints (stage 6 tdf 2009 as a fitting example). Pozzato won't outsprint Hushovd, but he might get second or fourth. Boonen...well ok, I can agree on that one :p
oscarito still has the kick and he is much more effective after 260k's of hard race then after 200k of a flat stage if he is on the right wheel in the last 100 meters he may be dangerous. i know pozzato is mostly hated/underrated here but most if not all his GT stage wins ever in this kind of sprints.
 
Parrulo said:
oscarito still has the kick and he is much more effective after 260k's of hard race then after 200k of a flat stage if he is on the right wheel in the last 100 meters he may be dangerous. i know pozzato is mostly hated/underrated here but most if not all his GT stage wins ever in this kind of sprints.
Of course, Freire is a legend when it comes to sprints after 260 k races. But if you look at Hushovd's palmares, almost all of his big wins are from similar 5% finishes. See his TDF stage wins from 2004 (ahead of Kim Kirchen), 2008 (ahead of Kim Kirchen), 2009 (ahead of Oscar Freire) and worlds+ many more. It's quite simply his specialty. Pozzato might win, I can agree there, but not if Hushovd is in the group.
 
Jul 5, 2010
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maltiv said:
Either way he's got another chance at winning P-R in the rainbow jersey, because he will win worlds again. The course is perfect for him. No one can defeat him in a 5% uphill sprint.

And nobody can defeat an in-form Cancellara at Ronde van Vlaanderen or Paris-Roubaix, right? And Cavendish wins every sprint.

There is always a chance of something happening. But as you said, Hushovd has already won - can we hold the race for silver and bronze at least? Pretty please with sugar on top?

Oh god.
 
Jul 5, 2010
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maltiv said:
Of course, Freire is a legend when it comes to sprints after 260 k races. But if you look at Hushovd's palmares, almost all of his big wins are from similar 5% finishes. See his TDF stage wins from 2004 (ahead of Kim Kirchen), 2008 (ahead of Kim Kirchen), 2009 (ahead of Oscar Freire) and worlds+ many more. It's quite simply his specialty. Pozzato might win, I can agree there, but not if Hushovd is in the group.
http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/TDF/2009/600/PROFILKMS.gif

Does it look like 5% to you? Nooo, it was under 2.4% from the Flamme Rouge. And he beat Freire by how much? He is far from unbeatable.

2008: http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/TDF/2008/200/PROFILKMS.gif 2 km of 3.9% but then 2km flat to the finish, i don't call that a uphill sprint.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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It would actually be incredibly sad if Hushovd would be world champion again. Probably one of the worst classics specialists there is.
 
Apr 28, 2011
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ingsve said:
So what alternatives does Hushovd have if he were to leave?

Ag2r - La Mondiale A possible choice. He has history with riding for a french team and they don't have an immediate leader that would challenge him but are also perhaps not best suited to support him.

Astana Another possible choice. They don't have a given classics leader but they have a few good riders that could help him.

BMC Racing Team It would be a similar situation to Garmin though they might be in need of a leader as Hincapie gets older and Ballans future uncertain.

Euskaltel - Euskadi Ehm, no...

HTC - Highroad
I have a hard time seeing a connection there given the rivalry between Cervelo and Columbia over a couple seasons.

Katusha Team With Pozzatto perhaps leaving they might want someone to replace him but they also have Hoste so the leadership question would still be there.

Lampre - ISD Who knows what will happen to them so no....

Leopard - Trek Well, if Cancellara were to step away from the cobbles and focus on the ardennes then perhaps they might be interested. Otherwise I would say think not.

Liquigas - Cannondale They have a few youngsters for the classics but they might be interested in a leader. Not sure how Hushovd would fit on an italian team however.

Movistar Team
I can't see them putting any focus on the cobbles to be interested.

OmegaPharma - Lotto Hushovd is friends with Gilbert so there might be a connection there but at the same time Gilbert wants to win all the classics so there would be some conflict of interest.

Quick Step Cycling Team I can't see either party being intersted.

Rabobank Same as QS. They already have their leaders and Hushovd would only complicate things.

SaxoBank - Sungard
Nuyens is pretty alone so perhaps they would like someone else to help lead the team in the classics.

Sky Professional Cycling Team They already have a good classics team so I can't see them getting someone like Hushovd. Perhaps if they were to lose too many of their current riders but thats' also unlikely.

Vacansoleil - DCM I don't quite see the fit there.

Team RadioShack This would be my choice. They have some strong support riders and don't have a strong leader to compete with him. Also he is friendly with Lance. There would be questions about whether they will still be around and about then of course the clinic issues.

Green Edge Green Edge could be an outside but that all depends on what type of riders they manage to get. I don't think Hushovd would be on top of their list but I'm sure they wouldn't mind it as a backup.

According to norwegian papers after he won the world championship . Saxo Bank and Riis had been checking Hushovds availability already before he won in Geelong.
Also Patric Lefevre from Quick step was named as a possibly opportunity. Lefevre said something about that Hushovds consistency was not so bad after all, if you signed him you know what you got. But also this interesst was due to Boonens problematic season last year. I find it hard to belive Hushovd and Boonen will ride on the same team even if they do training togheter in Monaco. Both have too big egos to share the attention on the same team.

Radishack was also a team who wanted to sign him and the Pegasus project was in discussion with him.

As this seems to be Kurt Asle Arvesens last season as professional , and he is not made a secret he got offers from several teams( Sky, Leopard,Saxo was mentioned) to become a sports director job after last season. I would not be very surprised if Hushovd joined the same team as Arvesen gets a sports directo job. But is just a wild guess from me.
 
meandmygitane said:
http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/TDF/2009/600/PROFILKMS.gif

Does it look like 5% to you? Nooo, it was under 2.4% from the Flamme Rouge. And he beat Freire by how much? He is far from unbeatable.

2008: http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/TDF/2008/200/PROFILKMS.gif 2 km of 3.9% but then 2km flat to the finish, i don't call that a uphill sprint.
Ok, the 2008 example was pretty bad, but I stand by the 2009, 2004 and worlds + many more. Your argument is a bit like if someone says Contador does well on 8% climbs and then you answer by showing how he has never done a climb that's exactly 8% but only 7,9% and 8,1%.

Obviously when I say he is unbeatable I don't mean literally that he's unbeatable. It's a bit like when someone says their favourite fotball team is the best team in the world, or like when the dutchies say that Gesink is the strongest climber ever :p
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Angliru said:
Aren't you exaggerating here?
I am, but I like dissing Hushovd. But there are lot's of better classics specialists than him that almost get no attention. Realistically speaking he can only win Paris-Roubaix. Sure, you could say Milan-San Remo as well, but his sprint after that race never was really impressive(like losing Haussler's wheel 2 years ago).
 
El Pistolero said:
I am, but I like dissing Hushovd.
Okay, I can relate. I have the same problem with Evans to the point that it's like a reflex.:D

In Hushovd's defense, his WC win was quite well deserved considering the odds that were stacked against him. I doubt anyone would've predicted his win. Also while it's always entertaining to see the WC stripes in attack mode, I think it's a bit much to ask that someone completely change their style of racing simply to accomodate the fans. It's just unfortunate for Hushovd that his WC win occurred during the period when Cancellara was/is at his peak of dominance. If it was Hushovd's goal to win RVV and/or Paris-Roubaix, he certainly wasn't going to do it by attacking Cancellara. That would've been a recipe for disaster for Hushovd. Of course this has been talked about at length before, but Hushovd's only hope for victory (aside from Cancellara crashing out) was to be matched up in a sprint against Cancellara. He definitely wasn't going to be able to ride him off of his wheel or attack him and get away.
 
Jul 5, 2010
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maltiv said:
Ok, the 2008 example was pretty bad, but I stand by the 2009, 2004 and worlds + many more. Your argument is a bit like if someone says Contador does well on 8% climbs and then you answer by showing how he has never done a climb that's exactly 8% but only 7,9% and 8,1%.

Obviously when I say he is unbeatable I don't mean literally that he's unbeatable. It's a bit like when someone says their favourite fotball team is the best team in the world, or like when the dutchies say that Gesink is the strongest climber ever :p
No, my argument was that a 5% climb leading up to a sprint and a sprint with 5% grade is two different things.

Consider the 2010 UCI world's profile as seen on Podium Café


So the gradient from 15.1km to 15.8km is roughly 20m/700m = 2.86%

For 2011 Worlds from official site:


Roughly about 20-25m in a bit less than 500m so close to 5%.

So my points are
1) Hushovd didn't win 2010 worlds because he is a excellent sprinter if the gradient is 5%. He won because 1a) Better sprinters were out of contention because of the 800 meter, 12% hill on the course 1b) Because he was a better sprinter than the remaining riders on a very easy (2.9%, 700m) uphill sprint.

2) Where and when did Hushovd win a uphill sprint in 5% (let's say 4-6% gradient)? Has he ever done so? Can you provide some proof of this? What arguments are there that the Copenhagen course will shed the better sprinters in the same way that the Geelong-climb did?

I feel a lot of classic's riders can win in Copenhagen - Freire, Cancellara, Gilbert as well as the sprinters. Hushovd is there but I would say there are hotter candidates.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Would be fun to see what happens if Gilbert starts sprinting that tiny tiny hill from the 500meter to go mark though :p
 
Jul 5, 2010
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Granville57 said:
They were my words, definitely. Part of my response was based on some of the earlier vitriol flying around this thread, and I was being overdramatic simply to balance the scales a bit.

I had some more time, and wanted to return to this topic to offer a more rational tone, but I see you've already have done that. Respect.
----------------
My own general thoughts, to various points that were previously made:

I've always understood that Thor is well liked and respected within the peloton and that his winning the Rainbow Jersey was looked favorable upon. Of course I have no idea what really goes on amongst the riders, but he certainly seemed like a worthy recipient.

If we look at Thor over the years, I don't really think much has changed.
He's often in the mix during a sprint; he poses enough of a threat to gain attention from anyone by his side; he is known to excel on certain types of finishes (like Geelong); and he's likely to win a few GT stages.
That, to me, is Thor.

I think he's been un-harshly criticized by some, as if the Rainbow Jersey is going to suddenly make him a rider he never was. Especially considering that the GT season hasn't even begun yet; the fall season still awaits; and he's adjusting to a new, unexpected, team environment.

There's still plenty of racing to be had. Not to mention the 2011 World Championships. I just don't think its's fair, or even slightly logical, to pass too much judgement...in APRIL!

Thor has already stated that the he doesn't have Green Jersey ambitions this year, so I would think his experience would be invaluable, and he can still offer some serious lead-outs for Tyler, or go for a win himself depending on the stage profile.

And if the above link to T-A stage 2 is any indicator of what's possible when Thor & Tyler combine forces, then there could be some very exciting endings in store. That overhead shot of the replay is, as I have stated in other threads, textbook sprinting and teamwork at its best. Ballet on bikes.
I agree that nothing good ever comes from public comments of dissent. Add to that his agent's back-pedaling and trying to re-write the spin—I could do without that even more.
I want to thank you for a nice reply which is a very nice read even if we are a bit split in our views.

For me Thor is a classic's rider who dabbles as a sprinter (or maybe it's vice versa?), a bit slower than the fastest sprinters but as a result one who survives climbing better than most. Honestly I don't know how suited he is for the Copenhagen worlds course because I haven't seen him in a 5% sprint as it not so common to end a race with them.

If he really want to win P-R I think he should train for just classics and not for competing for the Green jersey, maybe I'm wrong, perhaps it would make him dare more in the classics?
 
El Pistolero said:
Would be fun to see what happens if Gilbert starts sprinting that tiny tiny hill from the 500meter to go mark though :p
indeed

if gilbert manages to start an early sprint on that hill the sprinters will have a very hard job beating him. depending on how they feel on that day and how their form is the Belgians have no doubt 2 major favourites with boonen and gilbert. if boonen is in top shape and for some reason gilbert isn't gilbert could leadout boonen. if its the other way around gilbert should go for the long sprint while boonen messes up with possible trains behind
 
Apr 8, 2010
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meandmygitane said:
2) Where and when did Hushovd win a uphill sprint in 5% (let's say 4-6% gradient)? Has he ever done so? Can you provide some proof of this? What arguments are there that the Copenhagen course will shed the better sprinters in the same way that the Geelong-climb did?
He won the TdF stage to Barcelona in '09. That's an uphill sprint.
 
meandmygitane said:
No, my argument was that a 5% climb leading up to a sprint and a sprint with 5% grade is two different things.

Consider the 2010 UCI world's profile as seen on Podium Café


So the gradient from 15.1km to 15.8km is roughly 20m/700m = 2.86
Click graduated profile view, zoom in on the finish and you will see that the last 200 meters are at about 5%, at which point he passed Breschel. Sprints doesn't last for 700 meters. Either way my point was that he excels at uphill sprints, whether they are 3% or 5%. Earlier in his career he was particularly known for his comment "I'm the best sprinter in the world on a slight uphill sprint".
 
Jul 5, 2010
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Magnus said:
He won the TdF stage to Barcelona in '09. That's an uphill sprint.
Please, read the thread, already debunked that win:


From the earlier post: "Does it look like 5% to you? Nooo, it was under 2.4% from the Flamme Rouge. And he beat Freire by how much? He is far from unbeatable."
 
Jul 5, 2010
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maltiv said:
Click graduated profile view, zoom in on the finish and you will see that the last 200 meters are at about 5%, at which point he passed Breschel. Sprints doesn't last for 700 meters. Either way my point was that he excels at uphill sprints, whether they are 3% or 5%. Earlier in his career he was particularly known for his comment "I'm the best sprinter in the world on a slight uphill sprint".
That you only answered about a fifth of my points, is it something I should think of as important (eg that you don't have the answer for them)

My thoughts on this:
1) So if he can win with 200 meters of 5% he can win on 500 meters of 5%? I think if you slice the course in too thin slices it can be very deceptive.
2) My point is that the last kilometre is deciding the sprints in these cases (with exceptions of course), don't you consider the finish in Copenhagen harder than Geelong

Please show me where Hushovd has won where the last kilometre or last 500 meters is at least 4%.
If you do that I will consider Hushovd the number one favourite for 2011 worlds, deal? :D
 
Jul 5, 2010
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maltiv said:
That finish was close to 5% in the last few hundred meters dude, which is the main point here.
Sorry, it's about 12 (15 MAX) meters in 500m making it about 3% (measuring with pixels :p)

The noteworthy thing is that it illustrates my point that Thor makes it when the finish is to easy for power climbers while the hills beforehand sheds the better sprinters.
 
Apr 13, 2009
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Karl Max said:
According to norwegian papers after he won the world championship . Saxo Bank and Riis had been checking Hushovds availability already before he won in Geelong.
Also Patric Lefevre from Quick step was named as a possibly opportunity. Lefevre said something about that Hushovds consistency was not so bad after all, if you signed him you know what you got. But also this interesst was due to Boonens problematic season last year. I find it hard to belive Hushovd and Boonen will ride on the same team even if they do training togheter in Monaco. Both have too big egos to share the attention on the same team.

Radishack was also a team who wanted to sign him and the Pegasus project was in discussion with him.

As this seems to be Kurt Asle Arvesens last season as professional , and he is not made a secret he got offers from several teams( Sky, Leopard,Saxo was mentioned) to become a sports director job after last season. I would not be very surprised if Hushovd joined the same team as Arvesen gets a sports directo job. But is just a wild guess from me.
I think hushovd will go til Sacso bank . it is the only team who can give him the chances to fight for P-r .
simular as ogrady did.
 

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