Hushovd's problem with Garmin?

[Wergeland]

The problem is that Farrar is JV's Golden boy (american team, american sponsor). Thor isn't allowed to go for green. Strange decision since both the course for this years tour (not that many flat sprints) and the new intermediate sprint system favours Thor more than pure sprinters like Cav and Farrar.

And today we'll see the World Champion in the yellow jersey doing lead out for Farrar. If Farrar wins it will look great. If he doesn't JV looks like an idiot.

Outside another stagewin or two with Farrar or Hushovd, the only thing Garmin has a chance of winning is Hushovd in the green jersey. Stupid not to go for it.

 

[Trond Vidar]

Just heard a live interview on tv2.no with Hushovd now. He will help out with Tyler today, but will also be concentrated on the yellow jersey.

On questions regarding the green jersey he scuffed it off, and seemed a bit agitated.

Vaughters was interviewed afterwards, and said that they will defend the yellow jersey. He also wouldn't say if they would go for immediate sprints today, which i thought was weird given that they have had it as an objective for Farrar.

 

[Jamsque]

Thor does always seem a little peeved when he gets asked about the green jersey. I imagine at the start of the season the deal was that Thor would be supported in the classics but play second fiddle in the Tour de France, so I don't think he has much to complain about. He'll almost certainly jump ship at the end of the season though.

 

[hrotha]

Nice one. As you never were part of the inner circle in CA, and definitely isn't in Garmin, what you write leads me to the inevitable conclusion that you quite like putting forward your own postulates and draw conclusions from them.
You know nothing about Hushovd's complaints, real or imagined. As I wrote; he has always been loyal to the team management in public.

Wait, are you seriously faulting me for analyzing the info that's publicly available... then forming an opinion about it... then sharing it... in an internet forum whose very purpose is to do precisely that?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

There might be trouble behind the scenes at Garmin. After all, teams don't often have two big name sprinters for a good reason. However, Hushovd is getting some unfair flack here. He certainly didn't look workshy today when it came to riding for someone else.

 

[pedaling squares]

...besides hushovd has as many chances of winning a cobbled classic as i have.

Let's compare palmares on the hardest cobbled classic.

Hushovd:
1st: Paris-Roubaix espoirs
2nd, 3rd, 8th, 9th: Paris-Roubaix

Parrulo:
<crap>

You know, I'm putting my money on the Norwegian.

 

[Parrulo]

Let's compare palmares on the hardest cobbled classic.

Hushovd:
1st: Paris-Roubaix espoirs
2nd, 3rd, 8th, 9th: Paris-Roubaix

Parrulo:
<crap>

You know, I'm putting my money on the Norwegian.

taking hyperboles literally are we? you mad bro?

btw popovych won paris roubaix espoirs . . . .

he has podium placements but he didn't look impressive in neither of those races. misjudging a turn on the carrefour is something the real top cobbled guys don't do. nor is sucking boonen's wheel for 30k while canc vanish's into the horizon and then sucking flecha's wheel for 14k only out sprint him in the velodrome 2 minutes and a half after the winner had crossed the line. oh and this year sucking canc's wheel for the entire race having the luck of canc being slow down by a moto on the carrefour and then still not being able to follow canc on the tarmac 5k from the finish.

 

[ElChingon]

Garmin probably had a coin toss for who would be the designated Green jersey leader, too bad Farrar won it. Thor can hopefully still get points like today and stay in the running when Farrar isn't there.

 

[hektoren]

Wait, are you seriously faulting me for analyzing the info that's publicly available... then forming an opinion about it... then sharing it... in an internet forum whose very purpose is to do precisely that?

No, I fault you for writing things like "Hushovd complains even when he does have that (optimal team) support". When? Where? Did he complain publicly about his team when on Credit Agricole? When? Where? You claim it's publicly available. Ok! Now, prove it!
I know that he stated publicly that he would've liked to work his own chances at PR because he felt he had great legs, but that it was hard to fault JV when they were winning. That's all I've heard before today, when questioned directly admitted that he would've liked to go for green, and believes that he could get it. Hard to call that complaints, though. I'd call it fair asessments of the situation.

 

[Nederick]

Well, hats off to Garmin today, Thor included. Showing a good dose of proffesionalism there (in the finale anyway).

 

[hrotha]

No, I fault you for writing things like "Hushovd complains even when he does have that (optimal team) support". When? Where? Did he complain publicly about his team when on Credit Agricole? When? Where? You claim it's publicly available. Ok! Now, prove it!

I'm relying on someone else who brought up the Crédit Agricole thing in this thread, ask him about his sources. Are you seriously suggesting he didn't complain last year about a lack of support at Cervélo? Making someone dig up old articles to prove something most people taking part in the discussion know and remember perfectly well is kind of dishonest. It's a way to win an argument by attrition.

 

[muscat]

Now Tyler has got his first stage win on the 4 July, the american sponsors/public should be happy and the media their human interest story. Tyler should now sit back and enjoy.

Thor is far better suited to go for green jersey than Tyler. Tyler cannot climb as well and is not as resourceful in the more difficult stages. JV and Garmin should back Thor for green jersey, with Tyler taking on Cavendish in the few flat sprints.

David Millar should support Thor, with his target the ITT.

 

[greenedge]

Well he did lead out Farrar. He does seem to be getting the team behind him or another rider. And that's what they need when their GC riders are so far down.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I'm not actually sure that there are many better options than Garmin there for Hushovd at this point in his career.

Quite rightly, he has a big salary. A salary too large for most small teams. He doesn't have the raw top end speed any more to be the main sprinter in races with flat finishes for most teams which (a) are willing to devote significant resources to sprints and (b) have the money to pay him and pay quality support riders for him. Why would anyone want to hire a guy on his sort of money so that they can get a whole bunch of fifth places on stages? There are significantly cheaper guys who can get you that.

His role at Garmin is to be the leader in tough, flattish, one day races and hard sprints. Those are the roles he should be concentrating on because that's where he can still win important races. And I have some difficulty thinking of teams which would both afford him significant backing as a main sprinter and which could offer him the quality of support Garmin can give him in the races he can actually win.

If I were Thor, I'm not sure that I'd want to swap money and/or strong support in the classics for the right to be unchallenged lead sprinter.

 

[Oldman]

Now Tyler has got his first stage win on the 4 July, the american sponsors/public should be happy and the media their human interest story. Tyler should now sit back and enjoy.

Thor is far better suited to go for green jersey than Tyler. Tyler cannot climb as well and is not as resourceful in the more difficult stages. JV and Garmin should back Thor for green jersey, with Tyler taking on Cavendish in the few flat sprints.

David Millar should support Thor, with his target the ITT.

While this appears to be the best play having Tyler in the mix is still a good idea whenever possible just to separate Thor from other sprinters on a points basis. Unless he gets a commanding lead Garmin would want multiple options in case someone comes up lame before the race is over.

 

[Martin318is]

Okay I am seriously confused....

all you guys are utterly convinced that Thor is unhappy at Garmin and will leave asap, etc.

yet....


do yourselves a favour and have another look at the head-on video of today's sprint finale. Just as Tyler crosses the line, you can quite clearly see Thor with a huge grin on his face and making fist pumping 'yes' type gesture.

doesn't seem the act of someone working against his will to me. Seems genuinely happy with the result...

 

[Eric8-A]

I'm sure Garmin will be working to try and get Thor the stage win tomorrow.

 

[AussieGoddess]

yeah I saw that (the fist pumping when Tyler crossed first) and had a chuckle. Thor was certainly not unhappy with leading out and having Tyler win.

I thought Tyler's interview - giving Thor accolades for leading him out - was nice too. Certainly seems like they dont have too many problems.

 

[funnytanlines]

thor has said publicly again and again that the green jersey is not a target this year, and it seems to me that the reason he seems p*ssed about it when asked is because people keep asking. i seem to remember that from the start, when the two teams merged, he always said that he would focus on the classics, and support farrar in the tdf because tyler is faster on the flat sprints and has a better chance of beating guys like cavendish.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...in-Mark-Cavendish-at-2011-Tour-de-France.html

he may have complained a bit when JV decided to let vansummeren go for the win in paris roubaix, but the team was certainly working for him until then. it was bad luck for him that cancellara decided not to bridge the gap.

if anything the "problem" was that he was expecting a bonus for winning the worlds. not sure if that's been resolved. he may be looking for a bigger contract for next year befitting his stature (he wasn't world champ yet when he signed for garmin/cervelo), but as we've seen at least that doesn't stop him from being a professional and working for team goals in the tdf.

 

[Eric8-A]

Thor also said it was his decision to lead out Tyler. He did it voluntarily.

 

[red_flanders]

Now Tyler has got his first stage win on the 4 July, the american sponsors/public should be happy and the media their human interest story. Tyler should now sit back and enjoy.

Thor is far better suited to go for green jersey than Tyler. Tyler cannot climb as well and is not as resourceful in the more difficult stages. JV and Garmin should back Thor for green jersey, with Tyler taking on Cavendish in the few flat sprints.

David Millar should support Thor, with his target the ITT.

You cannot go for the jersey and be supporting another sprinter in the flat sprints. You just can't lose that many points and be in it.

 

[hektoren]

I'm relying on someone else who brought up the Crédit Agricole thing in this thread, ask him about his sources. Are you seriously suggesting he didn't complain last year about a lack of support at Cervélo? Making someone dig up old articles to prove something most people taking part in the discussion know and remember perfectly well is kind of dishonest. It's a way to win an argument by attrition.

This is what Thor said about support in Cervelo when it was evident they would lose Sastre last year: "There may be an advantage [if Cervelo doesn't get an overall threat (a GC rider)], but I would like to have an overall contender, if he is aware of the roles. I must have my men. There were never any problems with Carlos about that.

Sounds like a complaint for lack of support to you?

Again, you make claims that are wholly unfounded. This time you claim that "most people know and remember this perfectly well". How do you know that? Have you polled this? Of course not. You're clearly prejudiced, made a statistic conclusion based on a populace of one, can't find a source for your misconception and now you whine when you're caught out for not having gotten your facts straight? Now THAT isn't just kind of dishonest, it's a blatant lie.
I won't get into the CA-guy. You got the ball rolling, painting a picture of Hushovd as a guy who is only happy when he's the unquestioned leader, and "he's also a jerk" in your opinion.

Well, look at his offer to assume responsibility for the episode at the intermediate sprint yesterday, letting Cav off the hook. Still a jerk?

Fact is, off the top of my head I can remember Thor complaining in public twice. Once when he got a gash in his arm from a cardboard hand, and once when Cav's sprint were all over the place. In public about his team? Nope.

 

[Martin318is]

Fact is, off the top of my head I can remember Thor complaining in public twice. Once when he got a gash in his arm from a cardboard hand, and once when Cav's sprint were all over the place. In public about his team? Nope.

Actually, if you ignore unsubstantiated thrid or ninth hand forum 'evidence' I am not aware of him ever actually complaining about his team in private either.

 

[Wergeland]

Thor was a bit more outspoken about the green jersey yesterday. Basically said that he wanted to go for the green jersey because he thinks he has a really good chance of winning it this year, but he's not allowed.

And then we heard JV say that the green jersey is not an objective for the team.

Strange situation. Hushovd doesn't need much support to go for the green. He just needs free rein.

 

[ingsve]

I actually don't think Hushovd has that good of a shot as he might think. The changes skew things more in favor of Cavendish and other top sprinters in my opinion. The point scale at sprints finishes is more top heavy this year so getting on the podium is very important and you can't just be content with finishing 5th-8th in a sprint and think you can make it up on intermediates etc.

As for hte intermediates, yes Thor could perhaps get in a break on a thougher stage and get those 20 points or so but that's not really any different from the other times he has chased points in hte mountains but what is different is that on the flat stages the intermediate points won't be cancelled anymore. On a stage where there is a break of even 5-6 riders there is still 10 points to sprint for and in these sprints Hushovd will be at a disadvantage compared to the faster sprinters. So the change hasn't given any edge to him but it has given an edge to his opponents.