Hypothetical question

[briztoon]

OK, as some people know I recently bought my first carbon bike. I originally set out looking at some of the top of the range alloy bikes, but found some good beginner carbon bikes were in the same price range.

The top alloy bikes usually had a full Shimano Ultegra groupset, as opposed to Shimano 105 groupset on the carbon bikes. So a better groupset on a "lesser" frame. Or a lessor groupset on a better frame.

But my question relates to some of the different series of carbon road bikes put out by the same manufacturer.

Is it better to buy the top of the range of a "lesser" series, rather than the bottom of the range of the "higher" series?

As an example, comparing the top of the range 2011 Scott Addict RC to a bottom to mid level 2012 Scott Foil. Or the top of the range 2011 Specialized Tarmac SL3 Pro Dura Ace to a Tarmac S Works or one of the new Specialized Venge S-Works.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

OK, as some people know I recently bought my first carbon bike. I originally set out looking at some of the top of the range alloy bikes, but found some good beginner carbon bikes were in the same price range.

The top alloy bikes usually had a full Shimano Ultegra groupset, as opposed to Shimano 105 groupset on the carbon bikes. So a better groupset on a "lesser" frame. Or a lessor groupset on a better frame.

But my question relates to some of the different series of carbon road bikes put out by the same manufacturer.

Is it better to buy the top of the range of a "lesser" series, rather than the bottom of the range of the "higher" series?

As an example, comparing the top of the range 2011 Scott Addict RC to a bottom to mid level 2012 Scott Foil. Or the top of the range 2011 Specialized Tarmac SL3 Pro Dura Ace to a Tarmac S Works or one of the new Specialized Venge S-Works.

Put your dough into the frame/fork, and the wheels..components are expendables.

It's better to have a Colnago C59 with Sora than a crappy frame with SuperRecord.

 

[JayKosta]

It makes no difference unless you become dissatisfied with the bike, or you soon start having mechanical problems.

Lower priced components 'might' wear out sooner, and have to be replaced.
But by then you will know whether you like the bike well enough to spend money on new parts.

Just ride and enjoy,
stay safe,
keep it clean & lubed.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
"Having a super efficient bike just means you have to ride further to get the same exercise"

 

[luckyboy]

Yeah better to do what Bustedknuckle said. You can always save for a better groupset.

 

[bc_hills]

Put your dough into the frame/fork, and the wheels..components are expendables.

It's better to have a Colnago C59 with Sora than a crappy frame with SuperRecord.

+1 for sure on this, but bear in mind that some things are very expensive to upgrade later. Say you don't like your Sora shifters and want to upgrade to Ultegra, well, it'll cost a fortune. Probably a moot point though as it'd be a strange thing to find a premium frame already mated to a low end group set.

The thing with "high end" group sets, IMHO, is that the initial cost and subsequent maintenance costs are hard to justify. DA cassettes at $200 a pop, no thanks! I gravitate towards the second tier stuff, and even third tier for some components.

 

[elapid]

I have two comments. One depends on what you want from your bike. The top end carbon bikes are made and marketed for racers. They are often very stiff and hence quite uncomfortable for most cyclists, especially non-racers. The so-called lower end carbon bikes tend to be more comfortable and hence more enjoyable for your average cyclist. Marketing is a wonderful thing and many of us aspire to what the pros ride, but the pros make a living out of their sport and what they ride may not necessarily be the best bike for some of us to ride.

The higher end components are nice, but again do you really need them. There is nothing wrong with 105 and definitely not Ultegra. In fact, Ultegra and Chorus are often the best compromise between weight, performance and cost. However, buying a bike with higher end components is often a cheaper method than buying the most expensive frame with lower cost components and then later upgrading components. Price out Dura Ace or Record components and your top end carbon frame then compare that to the same bike complete. Costs a lot more to upgrade.

 

[veganrob]

+1 @Bustedknuckle. You are riding the frame/fork/wheels. If the frame is the same as the more expensive carbon bike with just lesser components that is what you want.

 

[ElChingon]

Also, you don't have to get a complete exact same level groupset. You can get top of the line shifters and then lesser other components. Especially the ones that wear like noted, cassettes & chains, that way when they do wear down you can replace at a lesser cost. Also, no one will notice anyway if that is a concern. Although I do not have experience with Shimano/SRAM so not sure if they are interchangeable within the same gear count, but I would assume yes, heck I've used Shimano cassettes due to low price on my Campy group when I was on 9 or 10 speed, I've even used higher count shifters on lower count gears, some fiddling but it works.

Get the Frame, if you don't like the components upgrade them as you go piece by piece always looking for deals. This time of year shops and on-line shops are dumping last years and beyond parts at low prices, wheel and deal and get what you want, it may not be next years but it will be just as good. My bike is a combo of 2011 and 2010 and some 2009 parts, and the average Joe can't see the difference.

 

[Notso Swift]

Well I see it a little bit differently to some of these other guys, but generally the same

I see it as a bell curve, the further along you go the law of diminishing returns applies, but by the same token at the start of the curve the quality goes up at a disproportionate rate to the price increases.

Using the Shimano line, I would suggest that with 105 you are at a very good level that does everything it needs to. Ultegra in an incremental improvement, while DA is a minimal improvement. (Indeed the new Ultegra would be better than my DA7800) Yet the improvement from Tiagra and Sora, IS significant to me and I was shocked with riding a Sora bike how it failed to meet my personal standards of “quality”

As I said above I ride DA7800, but running consumables are not - training wheels have a 105 cassette, race wheels has a lightweight cassette only good for 3k, Chain is KMC. Things like front derailleur are places to save, sometimes even the cranks (though you need to be careful there) while the rear and shifters are not...
THe best brakes I have ever used are still DA7700, good ol' 9 speed

 

[Bustedknuckle]

+1 for sure on this, but bear in mind that some things are very expensive to upgrade later. Say you don't like your Sora shifters and want to upgrade to Ultegra, well, it'll cost a fortune. Probably a moot point though as it'd be a strange thing to find a premium frame already mated to a low end group set.

The thing with "high end" group sets, IMHO, is that the initial cost and subsequent maintenance costs are hard to justify. DA cassettes at $200 a pop, no thanks! I gravitate towards the second tier stuff, and even third tier for some components.

Then 'upgrade' to 105. But as you chose a bike, pick the frame first. Makers have gone backwards on this. Same frame with different component groups. Should be same components with differing framesets/forks but that's a tough sell. Why shimano has done a group with the next up RD for years...xt with a XTR RD, 105 with an Ultera RD..selling point.

But as you ride the bicycle, you ride the frame/fork/wheels constantly. You shift, brake occasionally. The heart of the bike is the frame and fork.

 

[Pete Subs]

I agree with Bustedknuckle.

I own my 2nd Battaglin. The first one was a C14 PRO which is thier top of the line frame but I saved money by choosing an Apex group set. I upgraded the groupset and rode the bike for a long time.

Spend your money on the frame and fork and upgrade later groupset and wheels.