Hypothyroidism: interesting.

[armchairclimber]

http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/287/3/R600.full

I may need some help to make sense of it, but it seems that Thyroid hormones increase the body's response to hypoxia by influencing the gene which produces EPO.

Obviously, it could be read to explain why hypothyroid sufferers can't do endurance sports well. It could also explain the motivation for an otherwise healthy athlete (one who has already risen to the top...) to seek out a diagnosis.

EDIT: And Hypothyroidism can be an indicator of HGH use

Thanks for that article....it explains an awful lot. Definitely getting my lad tested now...he has become significantly less able to cope with exercise induced hypoxia in the last 18 months and I couldn't figure out why. Now I understand his distress (if he is indeed Hyperthyroidic).

 

[mikehammer67]

http://www.ibuysteroids.com/blog/steroids/t4-effective-for-hypothyroidism-and-metabolism.html

'commonly used in steroid cycles involving growth hormone and helps users maintain more muscles when dieting'

 

[mikehammer67]

https://mobile.twitter.com/VictorConte/status/322427558161444864

 

[armchairclimber]

http://www.ibuysteroids.com/blog/steroids/t4-effective-for-hypothyroidism-and-metabolism.html

'commonly used in steroid cycles involving growth hormone and helps users maintain more muscles when dieting'

The same sort of benefits supposedly offered by alcar. I wonder if Froome has a TUE for T4.
In fact, I wonder if, like Salazar's group, there is a significant portion of the Sky team diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

 

[SundayRider]

Hypo - means under producing right?

 

[armchairclimber]

Hypo - means under producing right?

Correct...as opposed to "hyper".

 

[SundayRider]

Correct...as opposed to "hyper".

Thanks, wouldn't have thought endurance athletes would fall into that category?

 

[armchairclimber]

Worth reading the various links further up the thread.

 

[SundayRider]

Yeah I have. Would athletes not be more prone to be hyper?

 

[mikehammer67]

The same sort of benefits supposedly offered by alcar. I wonder if Froome has a TUE for T4.
In fact, I wonder if, like Salazar's group, there is a significant portion of the Sky team diagnosed with hypothyroidism.

maybe they're on the same sauce

 

[simo1733]

Blimey.
Take all the EPO in the world but if your thyroid is fecked, you will be too.

Just reading in Cycle Sport Magazine,how Tim Kennaugh brother of Peter(Sky) had to give up a promising cycling career due to a Thyroid problem.No details.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Posting another link, but this is the most thoroughly informational piece I've seen. Highly suggested if you're watching the hours tick by on a friday afternoon.

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2013/04/thyroid-madness-everything-you-need-to.html

EDIT: finally got all the way through. Definitive, informative, and I trust his analysis enough to consider any debate settled

 

[armchairclimber]

Yeah I have. Would athletes not be more prone to be hyper?

No, more prone to hypo...or to showing symptoms thereof.

 

[Ripper]

Posting another link, but this is the most thoroughly informational piece I've seen. Highly suggested if you're watching the hours tick by on a friday afternoon.

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2013/04/thyroid-madness-everything-you-need-to.html

EDIT: finally got all the way through. Definitive, informative, and I trust his analysis enough to consider any debate settled

It's good and if you do not understand the condition, highly informative (so thanks for posting it).

It does provide a fair bit of opinion and I don't think it settles the debate. However, it does clear up how it could be abused, so it provides much better focus. Some of the thoughts out there are pretty ignorant.

Just to quote one interesting part ...

"Training with a thyroid disorder is about the most complicated thing in the world. You are always on the edge of overtraining, even if your medication is spot on, and you are doing half of what your competitors are. For example, using an athlete who suffers from hypothyroidism on my college team, it’s a tough road. For this athlete, he can only run about 4 days a week, despite treating his thyroid disease AND taking almost 3 months off. He can only do 1 actual hard workout a week, and after races it takes him at least 5 days to recover."

Strikes me that it would be near impossible to be an elite athlete if you had a Thyroid condition!

The good doctor in question is unlikely giving traditional doses to someone who is 'subclinical' and still able to function at an elite level. We are talking about microdosing compared to normal treatment, with the objective to ensure someone has whatever 'normal' energy levels they need (and can therefore train at their desired level). Sounds like there is room for abuse actually, but only with the right connections.

Anywho, I doubt this will be a 'debate solved' matter anytime soon. I do wonder if there will be comparisons drawn with certain anti-depressants and potential abuse (e.g. there is likely much more room to abuse buproprion than thyroid meds if you are looking to address fatigue).

 

[Cloxxki]

What I got from the article is that when you can live life as a professional runner, you simple are not a patient in this regard and should NOT be treated, or be excused to be treated.
Needless medical treatment = doping.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

What I got from the article is testosterone and hgh use lead to depressed / diminished thyroid activity.

 

[hiero2]

Posting another link, but this is the most thoroughly informational piece I've seen. Highly suggested if you're watching the hours tick by on a friday afternoon.

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2013/04/thyroid-madness-everything-you-need-to.html

EDIT: finally got all the way through. Definitive, informative, and I trust his analysis enough to consider any debate settled

I will agree. It is an excellent article. Personally, forgive my hubris, but I feel validated, since he is saying the same things I did. He has much better research and references though. Also worth noting, the author points out that the "normal" range accepted in 2001 changed 2002/3 for some organizations. They are posting ranges that pretty much are what Brown is quoted with in the WSJ article.

Things he doesn't mention, but should be mentioned. You CAN get extra thyroid through diet - just like vit D and iron. The problem is with doing it through diet are twofold: it takes a lot of animal thyroid gland, and the amount of gland has inconsistent amounts of thyroid in it, making consistency difficult. It is also possible to legally obtain dessicated thyroid OTC.

Next, and he does mention this. The hypothyroid athlete biz is NOT a "training effect". It may be accelerated by training, but it doesn't get better when you stop training.

Anyway, as a hypothyroid person myself, I'm getting a bit fashed with folks equating it with dopage. It ain't for a hypothyroid person. And before someone reads this and jumps up with "well what about overdosing, or microdosing . . ." go read the article first.

 

[armchairclimber]

It is indeed a good article.

Most of the products used for doping have a legitimate medical use and I don't really think anyone would quibble with legitimate medical use ...ie for someone like yourself hiero.
The problem arises when people, rightly or wrongly, suggest that the product is being abused. If there T3 or T4 do stimulate metabolism as well as EPO production then it's easy to see why athletes might seek "medical help".

I don't see this debate going away quickly. I wonder if Mo Farah is one of Salazar's hypothyroid athletes.

Steve Magness' blog is worth following. The posts can be sporadic but they are usually worth a read.

 

[hiero2]

What I got from the article is testosterone and hgh use lead to depressed / diminished thyroid activity.

Correct. So?

And note the article says temporarily depressed.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Correct. So?

And note the article says temporarily depressed.

So ?

Interestingly, if you followed the Floyd Landis case, you know he was taking synthetic thyroid. I don’t know the details, but it makes sense because he was also on a drug program that included EPO, testosterone, and who knows what. My bet is his drug taking knocked him into hypothyroid status.

Very handy if you have a doctor who is prepared to give you a TUE for synthetic thyroid while you dope up on thyroid depressing PEDs...

 

[hiero2]

It is indeed a good article.

Most of the products used for doping have a legitimate medical use and I don't really think anyone would quibble with legitimate medical use ...ie for someone like yourself hiero.
The problem arises when people, rightly or wrongly, suggest that the product is being abused. If there T3 or T4 do stimulate metabolism as well as EPO production then it's easy to see why athletes might seek "medical help".

I don't see this debate going away quickly. I wonder if Mo Farah is one of Salazar's hypothyroid athletes.

Steve Magness' blog is worth following. The posts can be sporadic but they are usually worth a read.

My problem is people going on about the possibility that Brown, as covered by the WSJ, is not legitimate medical usage. Or about marginal gains by microdoses of thyroid. Both are boogey men afaic.

People do abuse thyroid meds.

My issue is with someone concerned because Brown is diagnosing hypothyroid at 2.5, instead of 3, or 5 (which was the norm when I was diagnosed). If he is was administering thyroid when TSH was naturally 1 or lower, I could see an issue, but he isn't. Correction of thyroid within these values is not giving someone an advantage. It is trying to correct a problem. People are jumping on a bandwagon as an emotional response to certain cues - "EPO increase" etc. If your EPO is naturally suppressed because of a medical condition, you aren't gaining an advantage by returning it to "normal" levels. And you aren't gaining enough advantage through "micro-dosing" within the "normal" limits to be concerned about. And, anyone can microdose legally by eating lots of animal thyroid glands. You can't do that with T, or HGH.

Weightlifters apparently abuse thyroid, and this IS abuse. It is NOT a hypothyroid person being treated. The steroid site linked mentioned 300 mcg day, which is a huge dose of thyroid, huge. Their fact page doesn't mention all the side affects very well either. Steve's blog post covers them much better - but heart palpitations, overheating (like sweating to cool down at an ambient temp of 65, with little or no exertion), yada. Steve's blog also makes it clearer to me why Floyd and Tyler were given thyroid - probably to counter a temporary reduction due to T and HGH being administered. But, I repeat, none of this is treating a hypothyroid person.

Anyway - I've gotten on a soapbox here. Now I'll go for a cold shower, stand down, and try to keep my mouth shut for a bit.

 

[hiero2]

So ?



Very handy if you have a doctor who is prepared to give you a TUE for synthetic thyroid while you dope up on thyroid depressing PEDs...

Which is true. But that takes the conversation into the realm of managing a PED regimen, not the original topic of a doc diagnosing athletes as hypothyroid. The beginnings of going OT. And also distracts, imo, from the topic of hypothyroid and athletes.

This post is still posted as a fellow poster. But, in my role as mod, I will have to take notice in the future if we drift OT. Thanks.

 

[armchairclimber]

My problem is people going on about the possibility that Brown, as covered by the WSJ, is not legitimate medical usage. Or about marginal gains by microdoses of thyroid. Both are boogey men afaic.

People do abuse thyroid meds.

My issue is with someone concerned because Brown is diagnosing hypothyroid at 2.5, instead of 3, or 5 (which was the norm when I was diagnosed). If he is was administering thyroid when TSH was naturally 1 or lower, I could see an issue, but he isn't. Correction of thyroid within these values is not giving someone an advantage. It is trying to correct a problem. People are jumping on a bandwagon as an emotional response to certain cues - "EPO increase" etc. If your EPO is naturally suppressed because of a medical condition, you aren't gaining an advantage by returning it to "normal" levels. And you aren't gaining enough advantage through "micro-dosing" within the "normal" limits to be concerned about. And, anyone can microdose legally by eating lots of animal thyroid glands. You can't do that with T, or HGH.

Weightlifters apparently abuse thyroid, and this IS abuse. It is NOT a hypothyroid person being treated. The steroid site linked mentioned 300 mcg day, which is a huge dose of thyroid, huge. Their fact page doesn't mention all the side affects very well either. Steve's blog post covers them much better - but heart palpitations, overheating (like sweating to cool down at an ambient temp of 65, with little or no exertion), yada. Steve's blog also makes it clearer to me why Floyd and Tyler were given thyroid - probably to counter a temporary reduction due to T and HGH being administered. But, I repeat, none of this is treating a hypothyroid person.

Anyway - I've gotten on a soapbox here. Now I'll go for a cold shower, stand down, and try to keep my mouth shut for a bit.

No, stay on that soap box. It's important.

 

[_nm___]

I'm skeptical of the articles statistic that 17% (5 of the 30 athletes) of Salazar's group are treated for thyroid problems, compared to 5% of the general population when using the higher threshold of 5, and 10% when using the Doctor's (and posters here) more encompassing opinion of 2.

To me, something about that doesn't sit right. On one hand, the natural selection of the elitest athletes would predictably ween out those with limiting disorders. Further, The higher proportion of thyroid problems in elite athletes lends more weight to the idea that the medication is treating a training affect, rather than a naturally occurring condition.

that's 30 athletes compared to a general population of... 200 million people
that's not a very fair comparison

 

[_nm___]

Victor Conte used to give thyroid hormone on race day to his athletes (50 microgram liothyronine) to "accelerate metabolism and avoid sluggishness"
he was using it as a stimulant, really