Hypothyroidism: interesting.

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hiero2 said:
... Anyway - I've gotten on a soapbox here. Now I'll go for a cold shower, stand down, and try to keep my mouth shut for a bit.

I wouldn't worry about it. Many folks who experience a clinical condition that requires treatment have strong feelings. This is partly because for folks who actually have the medical condition in question, treatment is not an ergogenic aid - it addresses a problem. In these types of situations, generalizations about the treatment, purpose and effects would be more than a bit upsetting.
 
hiero2 said:
Which is true. But that takes the conversation into the realm of managing a PED regimen, not the original topic of a doc diagnosing athletes as hypothyroid. The beginnings of going OT. And also distracts, imo, from the topic of hypothyroid and athletes.

This post is still posted as a fellow poster. But, in my role as mod, I will have to take notice in the future if we drift OT. Thanks.

I think an intent of the thread was to answer to the question "should we be skeptical of athletes receiving treatment for hypothyroidism?". People have answered that question by discussing the condition, diagnosis and training effects, but DW's post takes another angle.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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More Strides than Rides said:
I think an intent of the thread was to answer to the question "should we be skeptical of athletes receiving treatment for hypothyroidism?". People have answered that question by discussing the condition, diagnosis and training effects, but DW's post takes another angle.

It does - DW got straight in to the abuse aspect. He is thinking, from what he wrote, that the temporary suppression of thyroid is the same as hypothyroid condition. It's not. Not even close. And that isn't what Brown was treating in the WSJ article.

I will say this - if the OP pitches in and says he thinks that this digression is not off-topic, I certainly won't be fashed about it.
 
Mar 17, 2012
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I did T3 and T4 back in my Fitness modeling days. I first did periods of T4, later switched to T3. Here´s my experience, which I experienced myself, and what role T3 and T4 play in sports:

First, even when used on healthy people, it´s not doping. Neither Liothyronine (T3) nor Levothyroxine (T4) are on the list of WADA´s banned substances.

I did cycles of T4 up to 400 mcg a day, for 4-8 weeks. Later cycles included up to 100 mcg of T3 for also 4-8 weeks. This hormones are, in these dosages, for cutting purposes. It increases metabolism drastically. With 100 mcgs of T3 a day, after some time (it takes few days to work), one has a metabolism that you could sit on the couch 24h a day, and still burn 3000-4000 calories a day, while not being on T3, this would need maybe 1300-1400 calories a day.

T4 has weaker effects, it´s 3-5 times weaker than T3. T4 has to be transformed into T3 by the body, to work. Only T3 works directly. If you create an extremely high T4 level, the body will stop transforming this into T3, so the T3 levels don´t grow equally, so the benefits won´t come any more, after some time.

It´s useless to take only T4, I today would say.

Then, don´t forget we speak about hormones. If you take 600mgs of caffeine, they´ve left the body after hours. It´s not super healthy for heart, liver and kidneys if you do this 4 times a week or daily, but it´s rather harmless. If you don´t do that for 20 years, the long-term consequences are acceptable, not very high at all.
Taking hormones (T3, T4, EPO, testosterone, HGH) is a different story. These are all substances the body also produces endogenous. If you start to add exogenous hormone, the body ALWAYS tries to balane this out, and will decrease or stop producing own hormone. The longer and higher dosed you add exogenous hormone, the more drastic this decrease will be.

There a different ways athletes try to recover their endogenous production after periods of use of hormones.
EPO: no post-cycle therapy
Steroids/Testosterone: HCG, Clomiphene, antiestrogens in general
HGH: no post-cycle therapy
T3/T4: slow lowering of daily dose, over 1-2 weeks

I, for myself, need T3/T4 now also for medical reasons. My endogenous production hasn´t recovered properly, I (like many other athletes) created a life-long hypothyreodism, which needs to be treated by life-long (now, of course, lower dosed) T3 and T4 medication, every morning, half an hour before breakfast. I knew the risks, and knew the damage it could do to my health, I accepted it, and so now, I don´t regret anything.

I have to say T3 and T4 get lower dosed in endurance sports, so this damage might be smaller. However, also with lower dose, there isn´t any guarantee that your thyroid system will recover afterwards.

Levothyroxine and especially Liothyronin are extremly powerful hormones, and Liothyronin´s effect on metabolism is almost unique (only DNP is stronger). Lower dose of T3 are less metabolism-increasing, but even slightly anabolic.
The side effects of T3/T4 however (= the side effects of hyperthyreodism), aren´t funny. Also, the effects of the hypothyreodism you maybe will face afterwards, aren´t funny (low metabolism, weakness, freezing also at 30 degree Celsius, ...).

I´ve never taken EPO, but after these thyroid experiences, I suppose someone who used EPO years and in high doses, creates anemia.
 
Mar 17, 2012
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Dear Wiggo said:
Thank you. That is an incredibly informative and honest post.

Very welcome :)

I am every day, and will be every day, for the rest of my life, ambivalent about having used thyroid hormone. But today, aged 27 (started T4 aged 22), I slowly become more and more sure that when I´m 60 and remember these days, and still take my medical dose every morning, I will be glad to have chosen this decision to give a try to T3/T4, which are, also within Fitness modeling and Bodybuilding world, considered as high-end weapons. I´m also well and healthy; just as someone who suffers from hypothyreodism since birth or women who develop it when older, who takes his/her medication and has a normal, healthy life.

If I, however, stopped taking medication now, I´d become hypothyreoid again, and after at the latest two to three weeks, it would become more awful day after day.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Do you mind if I ask what you were competing in? I missed it if you discussed it somewhere and it may be OT here, but I would be interested in learning more.
 
Mar 17, 2012
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Dear Wiggo said:
Do you mind if I ask what you were competing in? I missed it if you discussed it somewhere and it may be OT here, but I would be interested in learning more.

No, didn´t write about it till now, but no problem.

I was student at this time, and (more or less "secretely", none of my student colleagues knew about it) worked as a stripper/male escort on the weekends. Also had erotic advertising photo shots. This requires a slightly muscular and very lean, skinny look, with body fat values of down to 4%.
No jobs I´m proud about and speak much about today, but I´ll certainly keep the memories...
 
As DW says, thanks for your contribution. Really informative.
Also hiero, although DW is looking at thyroid hormones in terms of their use as an adjunct to other doping procedures, it's still part of the broader discussion for me and not really OT unless we need to see umpteen separate threads devoted to the uses and abuses of thyroid treatments.
 

martinvickers

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Oct 15, 2012
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RHRH19861986 said:
Very welcome :)

I am every day, and will be every day, for the rest of my life, ambivalent about having used thyroid hormone. But today, aged 27 (started T4 aged 22), I slowly become more and more sure that when I´m 60 and remember these days, and still take my medical dose every morning, I will be glad to have chosen this decision to give a try to T3/T4, which are, also within Fitness modeling and Bodybuilding world, considered as high-end weapons. I´m also well and healthy; just as someone who suffers from hypothyreodism since birth or women who develop it when older, who takes his/her medication and has a normal, healthy life.

If I, however, stopped taking medication now, I´d become hypothyreoid again, and after at the latest two to three weeks, it would become more awful day after day.

Even well managed hypothyroidism has inherent problems, most especially for women who develop it before attempting to maintain a pregnancy. You simply don't realise the centrality of thyroid function to everything else 'til it goes haywire.

Not least because badly managed hypothyroidism can tip over into episodes of induced hyperthyroidism, which is totally different, but just as sh*t.
 
Mar 17, 2012
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martinvickers said:
Even well managed hypothyroidism has inherent problems, most especially for women who develop it before attempting to maintain a pregnancy. You simply don't realise the centrality of thyroid function to everything else 'til it goes haywire.

Not least because badly managed hypothyroidism can tip over into episodes of induced hyperthyroidism, which is totally different, but just as sh*t.

Good post, I today would say that my (well managed) hypothyroidism is not really fully compareable to the situation when healthy. It´s, however, much better than when being hypo and hyper.

A cyclist who comes to my mind having had thyroid problems is Kevin Ista (IAM, former Accent Jobs and Cofidis). I heard this on German Eurosport, last year.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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armchairclimber said:
As DW says, thanks for your contribution. Really informative.
Also hiero, although DW is looking at thyroid hormones in terms of their use as an adjunct to other doping procedures, it's still part of the broader discussion for me and not really OT unless we need to see umpteen separate threads devoted to the uses and abuses of thyroid treatments.

Topic comment noted! Thanks for responding.
 
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from "Die Werte spielen verrückt"

Then used primarily to activate metabolism (weight loss, effectiveness of pharmaceuticals).
 

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