I believe Lance, not Floyd...here's why.

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Mar 31, 2009
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First, I am appalled by moderators statements. Can I not state my opinion without jeopardy? I am not making baseless accusations or posting hateful personal attacks. I do not want this thread buried in some miscellaneous thread about Armstrong or Landis. This is a separate, major issue using logic and basic human nature.

That being said, I believe that Landis doped just as he confessed...HGH,EPO, test patches, and blood.

I have grave doubts that any rider on UPS, especially Armstrong would jeopardize his entire career by doing drugs in full view of the whole team, including Landis. No way. Even on other teams where riders have confessed to doping, NONE of them did so in front of other riders.

As to Landis statement that Periro said he would defend the yellow through the final time trial because he had a fresh transfusion....total lie. What rider would ever tell a rival that he just doped? especially when the TdF title was at stake?

Landis knows that these stories can not be verified by anyone else. However, attacking the reputation of other riders in an effort to justify his use of drugs and cheating is worse than his other crimes.
 
Oct 20, 2010
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TShame said:
I have grave doubts that any rider on UPS, especially Armstrong would jeopardize his entire career by doing drugs in full view of the whole team, including Landis. No way. Even on other teams where riders have confessed to doping, NONE of them did so in front of other riders.
Really?..


Come on, Really?
 
A

Anonymous

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TShame said:
Landis knows that these stories can not be verified by anyone else. However, attacking the reputation of other riders in an effort to justify his use of drugs and cheating is worse than his other crimes.
Maybe you should ask Jeff Novitsky if the stories can be verified. They have put multiple people before a grand jury, and yet there is no sign that the federal investigation is stopping. Surely, if none of those witnesses were able to back up Landis's claims the investigation would have stopped long ago.

There is a reason the investigation is still continuing after a full year. Because people have backed up Floyds claims, that there is evidence to say he is telling the truth.

Do you really know better than the top federal investigator in the field? If So, maybe you should get in touch with him and tell him he is wasting his time. Because he clearly doesnt think he is.

TShame said:
I have grave doubts that any rider on UPS, especially Armstrong would jeopardize his entire career by doing drugs in full view of the whole team, including Landis. No way. Even on other teams where riders have confessed to doping, NONE of them did so in front of other riders.
That is purely speculation on your part. What you should say is "None of them have ADMITTED to doing so in front of other riders". Thats part of the game. When you are caught, you say you did it alone, you say you did it without the teams knowledge, you implicate NO-BODY. Much like in criminal circles. You get caught for your crimes, you DONT implicate your accomplices.

You know, some of your phrases for instance "Total Lie", "baseless accusations" come straight out of a couple of interviews ive seen with Phil Liggett. I think youve been listening to him too much.

Now Im off to find the best facepalm picture the internet has to offer.

and here it is.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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TShame said:
I have grave doubts that any rider on UPS, especially Armstrong would jeopardize his entire career by doing drugs in full view of the whole team, including Landis. No way. Even on other teams where riders have confessed to doping, NONE of them did so in front of other riders.

T, Shame on you. As has been pointed out in the SI Article from juniors on the US Team, riders that I know personally: Lance has taken drugs in front of team members throughout his career. You don't have to believe it based on anything Landis said. It happened, he lied and has always lied. Floyd is another issue.
 
TShame said:
First, I am appalled by moderators statements. Can I not state my opinion without jeopardy? I am not making baseless accusations or posting hateful personal attacks. I do not want this thread buried in some miscellaneous thread about Armstrong or Landis. This is a separate, major issue using logic and basic human nature.

That being said, I believe that Landis doped just as he confessed...HGH,EPO, test patches, and blood.

I have grave doubts that any rider on UPS, especially Armstrong would jeopardize his entire career by doing drugs in full view of the whole team, including Landis. No way. Even on other teams where riders have confessed to doping, NONE of them did so in front of other riders.

As to Landis statement that Periro said he would defend the yellow through the final time trial because he had a fresh transfusion....total lie. What rider would ever tell a rival that he just doped? especially when the TdF title was at stake?

Landis knows that these stories can not be verified by anyone else. However, attacking the reputation of other riders in an effort to justify his use of drugs and cheating is worse than his other crimes.
You think Landis is the only one?

Lance discussed it in the Motorola days (Swart)
Told a hospital room (Betsy)
Talked about his 1999 positive (O'Reilly?)
Acknowledges working with Ferrari (this is an admission of doping in itself).
Had steroids in his bathroom (Mike)
Shared drugs, withdrew blood, deposited blood (USPS - Floyd, Tyler and more).

By the way - T-Mobile were going to Freiburg together, so you're wrong that "no one would ever dope or let someone else know they dope". Every story we get from the peloton seems to say that doping is openly discussed rather than something a few evil people do in secret locations.

But you go beyond this by saying "I believe Lance", you're not just saying Floyd is wrong, you're saying you genuinely believe in miracles? I feel like the forum has just wound back 2 years.
 
A

Anonymous

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happychappy said:
I facepalmed so hard when Wiggins got 4th in the tour I knocked myself out.
I got a little overexcited and punched myself in the stomach :D
 
Jun 18, 2009
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TShame said:
I have grave doubts that any rider on UPS, especially Armstrong would jeopardize his entire career by doing drugs in full view of the whole team, including Landis. No way. Even on other teams where riders have confessed to doping, NONE of them did so in front of other riders.
you obviously don't understand the gay bathhouse that is pro cycling.

I grew up in team sport locker rooms, so I'm not too queasy about it.

respect to the non-straight folks, no offense intended.
 
Sep 16, 2010
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TShame said:
First, I am appalled by moderators statements. Can I not state my opinion without jeopardy? I am not making baseless accusations or posting hateful personal attacks. I do not want this thread buried in some miscellaneous thread about Armstrong or Landis. This is a separate, major issue using logic and basic human nature.

That being said, I believe that Landis doped just as he confessed...HGH,EPO, test patches, and blood.

I have grave doubts that any rider on UPS, especially Armstrong would jeopardize his entire career by doing drugs in full view of the whole team, including Landis. No way. Even on other teams where riders have confessed to doping, NONE of them did so in front of other riders.

As to Landis statement that Periro said he would defend the yellow through the final time trial because he had a fresh transfusion....total lie. What rider would ever tell a rival that he just doped? especially when the TdF title was at stake?

Landis knows that these stories can not be verified by anyone else. However, attacking the reputation of other riders in an effort to justify his use of drugs and cheating is worse than his other crimes.
Mission fail mission fail abort :D
 
Jun 16, 2009
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TShame said:
First, I am appalled by moderators statements. Can I not state my opinion without jeopardy? I am not making baseless accusations or posting hateful personal attacks. I do not want this thread buried in some miscellaneous thread about Armstrong or Landis. This is a separate, major issue using logic and basic human nature.
I am going to let this thread stand for now - pretty much for entertainment value in the responses you will get. Some points though:

1) you have said NOTHING that is new and hasnt already been said in -amongst other places - the Lance Armstrong thread so it would be entirely correct for a moderator to shut this down and/or merge it elsewhere.

2) you refute so called baseless acusations (that we can already see have a strong base to them) with totally generalised and loose claims.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Ferminal really beat me to the punch here, but I think the person who best corroborates Landis's claims is Swart. The story about Armstrong saying Motorola were getting their butts kicked and needed to get on a program suggests that he was pretty open about his intention to use PED's and his desire that his teammates do the same. So why would he hide it from them once the program was established? And why not infuse blood on the team bus? I think that is a pretty ingenious location for covert blood transfusions. Far better than a hotel room where he may be alone, or may be on camera for all he knows.
 
Feb 21, 2010
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TShame said:
First, I am appalled by moderators statements. Can I not state my opinion without jeopardy? I am not making baseless accusations or posting hateful personal attacks. I do not want this thread buried in some miscellaneous thread about Armstrong or Landis. This is a separate, major issue using logic and basic human nature.

That being said, I believe that Landis doped just as he confessed...HGH,EPO, test patches, and blood.

I have grave doubts that any rider on UPS, especially Armstrong would jeopardize his entire career by doing drugs in full view of the whole team, including Landis. No way. Even on other teams where riders have confessed to doping, NONE of them did so in front of other riders.

As to Landis statement that Periro said he would defend the yellow through the final time trial because he had a fresh transfusion....total lie. What rider would ever tell a rival that he just doped? especially when the TdF title was at stake?

Landis knows that these stories can not be verified by anyone else. However, attacking the reputation of other riders in an effort to justify his use of drugs and cheating is worse than his other crimes.
Well done.

Here is the place to send this critical information to set some folks straight:

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/email/oc/oci/contact.cfm

Good luck, God's speed.
 
May 21, 2010
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Ferminal said:
... I feel like the forum has just wound back 2 years.
Apart from another post from this year Tshame's next post is from 4-29-10. So you're not that far off!! Lot's of names from a bygone era in that thread. From a time before "The Great Banishment" ...Green Tea, Ellenbrook2001 where are they now?
 
Aug 19, 2009
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TShame said:
First, I am appalled by moderators statements. Can I not state my opinion without jeopardy? I am not making baseless accusations or posting hateful personal attacks. I do not want this thread buried in some miscellaneous thread about Armstrong or Landis. This is a separate, major issue using logic and basic human nature.

That being said, I believe that Landis doped just as he confessed...HGH,EPO, test patches, and blood.

I have grave doubts that any rider on UPS, especially Armstrong would jeopardize his entire career by doing drugs in full view of the whole team, including Landis. No way. Even on other teams where riders have confessed to doping, NONE of them did so in front of other riders.

As to Landis statement that Periro said he would defend the yellow through the final time trial because he had a fresh transfusion....total lie. What rider would ever tell a rival that he just doped? especially when the TdF title was at stake?

Landis knows that these stories can not be verified by anyone else. However, attacking the reputation of other riders in an effort to justify his use of drugs and cheating is worse than his other crimes.
Your certainty that Landis is lying is intriguing. What would it take to make you think he isn't?
 
Elagabalus said:
Apart from another post from this year Tshame's next post is from 4-29-10. So you're not that far off!! Lot's of names from a bygone era in that thread. From a time before "The Great Banishment" ...Green Tea, Ellenbrook2001 where are they now?
I think this is an opportunity to debate the post, not the poster or former posters. Attacking the poster just gives credence to the unsubstantiated claims in the post.

There have been good posts here pointing out the logic flaws, let's keep that going.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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TShame said:
I have grave doubts that any rider on UPS, especially Armstrong would jeopardize his entire career by doing drugs in full view of the whole team, including Landis. No way. Even on other teams where riders have confessed to doping, NONE of them did so in front of other riders.
Yes, and there's no way a large number of pro riders would utilize the same spanish doctor to help them with doping. Oh, wait ...

Also no way a rider would jeopardize his reputation by hiring, on an exclusive basis, an Italian hematologist who was tried in a criminal court for doping athletes. Oh, wait ...
 
Elagabalus said:
Apart from another post from this year Tshame's next post is from 4-29-10. So you're not that far off!! Lot's of names from a bygone era in that thread. From a time before "The Great Banishment" ...Green Tea, Ellenbrook2001 where are they now?
Ooh, ellenbrook2001 was a classic, forgot about that one.
 
Nov 19, 2010
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people actually give half a crap about lance and floyd anymore? I don't think I've thought about either one of them for more than half a second in 5 years.
 
Jun 13, 2010
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TShame said:
First, I am appalled by moderators statements. Can I not state my opinion without jeopardy? I am not making baseless accusations or posting hateful personal attacks. I do not want this thread buried in some miscellaneous thread about Armstrong or Landis. This is a separate, major issue using logic and basic human nature.

That being said, I believe that Landis doped just as he confessed...HGH,EPO, test patches, and blood.

I have grave doubts that any rider on UPS, especially Armstrong would jeopardize his entire career by doing drugs in full view of the whole team, including Landis. No way. Even on other teams where riders have confessed to doping, NONE of them did so in front of other riders.

As to Landis statement that Periro said he would defend the yellow through the final time trial because he had a fresh transfusion....total lie. What rider would ever tell a rival that he just doped? especially when the TdF title was at stake?

Landis knows that these stories can not be verified by anyone else. However, attacking the reputation of other riders in an effort to justify his use of drugs and cheating is worse than his other crimes.

Well, I believe Floyd and NOT Lance just because, how's that.
 
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