IAAF getting started with blood profiling?

[Cloxxki]

http://www.mail.com/int/sports/other/1951142-17-athletes-face-sanctions-iaaf-doping-cases.html

36 in total.
I wonder who were taken sufficient blood sample to do anything with.
I'll welcome seeing year best times drop in 2013. Apart from the Dubai marathon already run.

 

[sniper]

http://www.mail.com/int/sports/other/1951142-17-athletes-face-sanctions-iaaf-doping-cases.html

36 in total.
I wonder who were taken sufficient blood sample to do anything with.
I'll welcome seeing year best times drop in 2013. Apart from the Dubai marathon already run.

Best times and other records need to be beaten on a regular basis for people to continue watching.

If overnight athletics would become PED-free, we probably wouldn't see any world record be broken for the next couple of decades.

Athletics is beyond remedy with the guys who attract most viewers (and thus generate most money), i.e. the shortdistance sprinters, Bolt above all, being among the most obvious dopers.

That not one single sports federation comes with the idea of independent testing shows just how pervasive PEDs are in topsports.
What IAAF are doing sounds good but in the end they're just carrying coals to Newcastle (water naar de zee)

 

[Galic Ho]

Sniper the record breaking excuse is garbage. You simply erase all of them. All of them. Swimming had such a chance with the super bouyant suits post Beijing 2008 and the 2009 FINA World Champs and the governing body did nothing.

Get them clean and enforce it and wipe every record. It'll be competitive. Will they do that? Hell no. Especially in athletics. None of the women are even touching the records and people still watch. Haven't gone close for over 20 years in most events. They're full off it. Records were never the reason, that's just marketing hype. A conveniently spun PR piece by the enablers and power brokers who do have the power to change doping in sports. The real reason is they don't want to lose their free ride. The $$$.

 

[Mr.38%]

None of the women are even touching the records and people still watch. Haven't gone close for over 20 years in most events.

Except for the out-of-this-world record by the US womens 100m sprint relay destroying Göhr, Stecher, Oelsner, Campbell, Ashford, Griffith-Joyner, Torrence, Devers et al.

WTF!?!

 

[mikehammer67]

the wr's mostly under threat seem to be mens sprints(jamaicans) and marathon(africans) where ooc testing is slack

i assume there's africans involved here as it's endurance athletes under investigation

 

[Galic Ho]

Except for the out-of-this-world record by the US womens 100m sprint relay destroying Göhr, Stecher, Oelsner, Campbell, Ashford, Griffith-Joyner, Torrence, Devers et al.

WTF!?!

Yeah there is that one. Relays are special beast. You remove a lot of the start up and reaction time delay and pass off at almost full flight. Also there have been a lot of mistakes in recent years. Many big teams not making the finals because of a bad turn over.

Apart from Flo Jo the womens 100m runners today are about as fast as the next best in history. About. That is why they can beat the relay record. Whole different story touching her lone record or even her second best. Still 0.25 off that and they won't touch it. Not for a long long time.

 

[Cloxxki]

My country's strongest national record was set at the Barcelona '92 finals. Absolutely non-discussable performance, undisputed personality, legend, hero, etc. No-one came close for over 20 years. And not for lack of trying, we have had some supremely talented athletes give it their best. Heck, only a couple of greatly disputed foreigners got close.
In '92 there was no Hct limit. No ban on needles. Did they even take anti-doping blood tests at all?
The Norwegians are relatively open to discussion EPO in 90's XC skiing compared to my country's attitude towards that one magic performance. The atlete in question was sincerely perplexed crossing the line first. Of course the world ran with it like with Lance's "look".

Tracks have gotten faster, 2 decades of polymer development. Athletes one generation more evolved. 20 years of additional insight on legal supplements. Training and peaking. Asthma inhalers free to use up till really high dosage. All to no avail, we're slower, about a half furlong per countrymile.

 

[sniper]

My country's strongest national record was set at the Barcelona '92 finals. Absolutely non-discussable performance, undisputed personality, legend, hero, etc. No-one came close for over 20 years. And not for lack of trying, we have had some supremely talented athletes give it their best. Heck, only a couple of greatly disputed foreigners got close.
In '92 there was no Hct limit. No ban on needles. Did they even take anti-doping blood tests at all?
The Norwegians are relatively open to discussion EPO in 90's XC skiing compared to my country's attitude towards that one magic performance. The atlete in question was sincerely perplexed crossing the line first. Of course the world ran with it like with Lance's "look".

Tracks have gotten faster, 2 decades of polymer development. Athletes one generation more evolved. 20 years of additional insight on legal supplements. Training and peaking. Asthma inhalers free to use up till really high dosage. All to no avail, we're slower, about a half furlong per countrymile.

Ha, good ol' Ellen. yeah, she made us proud back then. I was too young to question that performance. You think it was a clean performance?

 

[del1962]

My country's strongest national record was set at the Barcelona '92 finals. Absolutely non-discussable performance, undisputed personality, legend, hero, etc. No-one came close for over 20 years. And not for lack of trying, we have had some supremely talented athletes give it their best. Heck, only a couple of greatly disputed foreigners got close.
In '92 there was no Hct limit. No ban on needles. Did they even take anti-doping blood tests at all?
The Norwegians are relatively open to discussion EPO in 90's XC skiing compared to my country's attitude towards that one magic performance. The atlete in question was sincerely perplexed crossing the line first. Of course the world ran with it like with Lance's "look".

Tracks have gotten faster, 2 decades of polymer development. Athletes one generation more evolved. 20 years of additional insight on legal supplements. Training and peaking. Asthma inhalers free to use up till really high dosage. All to no avail, we're slower, about a half furlong per countrymile.

I remember that performance and it looked positively clean to what I watched from a certain Czeck lady in 1983 Worlds

 

[blackcat]

Yeah there is that one. Relays are special beast. You remove a lot of the start up and reaction time delay and pass off at almost full flight. Also there have been a lot of mistakes in recent years. Many big teams not making the finals because of a bad turn over.

Apart from Flo Jo the womens 100m runners today are about as fast as the next best in history. About. That is why they can beat the relay record. Whole different story touching her lone record or even her second best. Still 0.25 off that and they won't touch it. Not for a long long time.

genevieve jeanson showed what a young athlete could do doped up in modern times when off the radar and out of the normal competition region for testing.

no real ooc.

she dominated. would prolly have lapped marianne vos today eh

 

[DirtyWorks]

http://www.mail.com/int/sports/other/1951142-17-athletes-face-sanctions-iaaf-doping-cases.html

36 in total.
I wonder who were taken sufficient blood sample to do anything with.
I'll welcome seeing year best times drop in 2013. Apart from the Dubai marathon already run.

The highest-profile athlete was Moroccan marathon runner Abderrahim Goumri, a runner-up at the Chicago, London and New York marathons and winner of the 2011 Seoul International Marathon.

It looks like a warning shot to the West's Track and Field athletes. Belarus is part of the list and they utterly, completely, failed the IQ test in 2012.

Just like the UCI, the IAAF controls the selection of athletes to test and the routing of the doping tests now, so any number of athletes can now test positive and not get cases opened against them.

 

[Cloxxki]

I remember that performance and it looked positively clean to what I watched from a certain Czeck lady in 1983 Worlds

2 differences:
- Hardly anyone pretends that those 80's mustaches and muscles (on women) were natural.
- In the mid-80's there was no EPO yet. Muscle mass and efficiency had to do the work. In the EPO era, skinny athletes could run near top speed for much longer than usual, or now for that matter. At the '92 Olympics, how could it not have been go-to product for winners? Dutch athletes as early as 1988 are rumored to have been into Edgar.

I want it to have been clean, but it would be most ill-timed performance to be believable. Come on: PB after injury-struck '91, just qualified in time, to race in Spain. Dirtiest games ever. No-one was going to catch you, and EPO was well established, but no test for the next 8 years. Use it or be last.
What bugs me most: is that no-one is allowed to question it. Because it's a sweet woman. Who now manages athletes, promotes huge track meets, and sits at the Dutch T&F board. Forewoman of Athletics, national pride.
Even if she was clean, questions need to be asked and answered.

 

[del1962]

2 differences:
- Hardly anyone pretends that those 80's mustaches and muscles (on women) were natural.
- In the mid-80's there was no EPO yet. Muscle mass and efficiency had to do the work. In the EPO era, skinny athletes could run near top speed for much longer than usual, or now for that matter. At the '92 Olympics, how could it not have been go-to product for winners? Dutch athletes as early as 1988 are rumored to have been into Edgar.

I want it to have been clean, but it would be most ill-timed performance to be believable. Come on: PB after injury-struck '91, just qualified in time, to race in Spain. Dirtiest games ever. No-one was going to catch you, and EPO was well established, but no test for the next 8 years. Use it or be last.
What bugs me most: is that no-one is allowed to question it. Because it's a sweet woman. Who now manages athletes, promotes huge track meets, and sits at the Dutch T&F board. Forewoman of Athletics, national pride.
Even if she was clean, questions need to be asked and answered.

The only thing is I am not sure how much EPO would help for middle distance athletcics.

Look at the times from eighties over 800m in mens and there was no significant improvement in 90s. Often the worlds best for the year are set at 405m above seal level, (not like the longer races), which points to other physiological factors involved.

 

[mikehammer67]

1500-3000m times dropped substantially
they're untouchable now
epo was involved there afaik

 

[fmk_RoI]

[ IAAF getting started with blood profiling?

Might want to go check when IAAF "got started" as it was quite some time back...

 

[fmk_RoI]

That not one single sports federation comes with the idea of independent testing shows just how pervasive PEDs are in topsports.

What, indy testing of the sort done by ACE, Damsgaard and Catlin? Or indy testing of the sort that will be done by the CADF?

 

[mikehammer67]

17 new cases in a short period
36 in total since 09
so it's a significant development

 

[fmk_RoI]

IAAF has a RTP of 640 (2013 fig). In four years have initiated 19 passport cases, now looking at another 17.

UCI had a RTP of c1,100. In five years they have initiated fewer than a dozen passport cases.

What conclusions do you draw?

 

[fmk_RoI]

17 new cases in a short period
36 in total since 09
so it's a significant development

Is it? Remember when UCI said they were looking at twenty-odd cases? How many were initiated?

I think the 19 is far more significant than the 17...

 

[del1962]

1500-3000m times dropped substantially
they're untouchable now
epo was involved there afaik

216 times faster than the best 1980s time over 5000m

50 times faster than best 1980s time over 1500m

8 times faster than 1980s best time over 800m

That kindof tells you something about where EPO has been more effective

 

[mikehammer67]

Van langen works with 'mystery man' jos hermens

he had an unfortunate 'brailsford moment' a few years back when it emerged that he had inadvertently referred 2 convicted dopers to a spanish doping doctor for some
'revolutionary homeopathy'

 

[Cloxxki]

The only thing is I am not sure how much EPO would help for middle distance athletcics.

* Ask Victor Conte about EPO for 60-100m sprinters.
* Ask anyone who's ever done an 800m how the last 300m were with respect to their breathing.

Would more O2 uptake have made you faster? Heck yeah!
It's not JUST about lactate build up, and even that will likely start deeper into the race when you have more oxygen uptake.

Hermens and Van Langen are like the king pins of athetics, involved in everyone's business. You think it was inappropriate for Verbruggen to be on Armstrong's speed dial? How about sitting on the board of a key national athletics federation, promoting pro events deciding who's paid how much and who's invited, AND be athlete manager to those attending, united in 1 person. Columns for the largest newpaper. Hein and Pat got nothing on those. Even if they're clean as a whistle, it looks really unhealthy. No-one should want to be in all those positions. But if you had something to hide, what better way to cover it by being in everyone's face everywhere all the time?

 

[mikehammer67]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/historic/32010549.html

reminds me of brailsford