If a cyclist did this, how long would his suspension be.

[The Hitch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq3lXDdG4m8&feature=player_embedded

Ok so, a cyclist isnt going to kick a ball at innocent fans. But imagine a French cyclist in Flanders for example, taking a bottle shaking it a bit, then lobbing it full power as he passes tons of fans on the Muur. Would he even be allowed back into the sport.

I mean here the guy smashes a ball full power at the faces of random people.

But he is a proffesional footballer, and we must all bow down before them and treat them as gods.

Justg like Riis has "clouds over him", and Flandis, Rasmussen are blacklisted, but mention the positive test that Messis (the guy in the video) manager has for nandrolone, and they will treat you like one of those guys claiming Elvis still lives. Actually, theyll treat you more like one of those guys claiming other races have smaller brains.

 

[pedaling squares]

Well the Muur would be a terrible place to pick a fight, the wee skinny fella would be going way too slow to get away from the fan. I figure the next fan who spits on a cyclist or lets his dog run under the wheels should get a bottle or two thrown his way. Now if the cyclist jumped into the crowd, ripped off the fan's shoe, and beat him with it, well now we'd have something to debate.

 

[The Hitch]

Well the Muur would be a terrible place to pick a fight, the wee skinny fella would be going way too slow to get away from the fan. I figure the next fan who spits on a cyclist or lets his dog run under the wheels should get a bottle or two thrown his way. Now if the cyclist jumped into the crowd, ripped off the fan's shoe, and beat him with it, well now we'd have something to debate.

Nah, not picking a fight with a fan. Lobbing a object randomly into them not knowing who you hit (could be a child, a elderly person, a woman), all the while knowing you can just walk away in this case. In the cycling example it would involve the man on 2 wheels being 25m away by the time the fans realize what happened.

 

[brianf7]

Well the Muur would be a terrible place to pick a fight, the wee skinny fella would be going way too slow to get away from the fan. I figure the next fan who spits on a cyclist or lets his dog run under the wheels should get a bottle or two thrown his way. Now if the cyclist jumped into the crowd, ripped off the fan's shoe, and beat him with it, well now we'd have something to debate.

And what would you put in the bottle. battery acid or lead.

 

[Martin318is]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq3lXDdG4m8&feature=player_embedded

Ok so, a cyclist isnt going to kick a ball at innocent fans. But imagine a French cyclist in Flanders for example, taking a bottle shaking it a bit, then lobbing it full power as he passes tons of fans on the Muur. Would he even be allowed back into the sport.

interesting question - goes to intent really. As soon as I saw the topic I immediately started recalling images (that I agree are not the same thing, but might give a clue what the cycling reaction would be). Tom Steels bottle throwing at Moncassan - out of race, Riis and Millar bike throwing (did they even look to see nobody was there?) - nothing, various punches thrown on Huez - nothing, and was it Bugno who hit a spectator with his front wheel? - nothing

 

[Mambo95]

Why the big deal about Messi?

A football blasted into the crowd isn't going to hurt anyone. It happens all the time, deliberately or not. Torres is doing it frequently since he signed for Chelsea.

Another question would be if a cyclist (eg Cav) had to contend with people shouting "Your mother's a hore*" or similar for an hour, how would they react?

*bad spelling to avoid censorship

 

[The Hitch]

Why the big deal about Messi?

A football blasted into the crowd isn't going to hurt anyone. It happens all the time, deliberately or not. Torres is doing it frequently since he signed for Chelsea.

Another question would be if a cyclist (eg Cav) had to contend with people shouting "Your mother's a hore*" or similar for an hour, how would they react?

*bad spelling to avoid censorship

I suppose if they got paid £1200 an hour and actually got some recognition from it they wouldnt care.

EIther way no one is picking on Messi ( i would far rather see Narcisinho Casilias and Ronaldo) but yes a ball blasted full power into the stand from 2 metres out is going to hurt people. There is a difference between shooting from range from inside the pitch, or smashing it into a bunch of unknown faces deliberately from the dugout.

Its like arguing that because De Jong hit Xabi Alonso with a kung fu kick in the game, it would be perfectly all right to start aiming kung fu kicks at random people in the street

 

[Martin318is]

I think that is a valid point really. The English comedian, Jason Mamford said something about it - he said if he was getting paid that much he wouldn't care at all what anyone said. from memory he said something like:

"I'd be standing there on the pitch counting notes, 100,200,300 and if someone in the crowd calls out, ' your mum is a knob-head', he would just say, 'yeah, and you should see her house!, 400, 500"

Frankly, getting insulted is part of top league sports - deal with it and remember you are getting paid a LOT to be there.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq3lXDdG4m8&feature=player_embedded

Ok so, a cyclist isnt going to kick a ball at innocent fans. But imagine a French cyclist in Flanders for example, taking a bottle shaking it a bit, then lobbing it full power as he passes tons of fans on the Muur. Would he even be allowed back into the sport.

I mean here the guy smashes a ball full power at the faces of random people.

But he is a proffesional footballer, and we must all bow down before them and treat them as gods.

Justg like Riis has "clouds over him", and Flandis, Rasmussen are blacklisted, but mention the positive test that Messis (the guy in the video) manager has for nandrolone, and they will treat you like one of those guys claiming Elvis still lives. Actually, theyll treat you more like one of those guys claiming other races have smaller brains.

Not intending to change focus, I just want to point out I don't think the footballer did anything that bad. Tho it was unnecessary. I mean the ball isn't out of play until it completely crosses the line. He's maybe a little frustraded with the game, and showing it at that moment??? Meh. It was probably done without intending to harm any fans. I'd give him bene of the doubt. Just, as a fan, better always be watching the ball.

Back to topic... The cyclist should pay for his deliberate actions to harm. To me, that's the difference. How exactly he'd pay I don't know.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Messi kicks the ball with the outside of his foot. He tries to keep it inside the field. No harm intended.

But even IF any harm was intended. It is impossible to compare cycling with football.
In cycling you pass every supporter 1 time, at 20km/h at least. In football you sit in a stadium with 80.000 people who are against you, for 90 minutes long, trying there best to insult every player of the opponent as good as they can. A player like Messi gets extra attention of the audience of course.
This doesn't happen in cycling.

A slightly different story you find in cyclocross though. Riders pass the supporters every round, at slower speed. And yes, accidents have happened here in the past.
Groenendaal punch @ Diegem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwRJnui8-hc
Wellens Karate Kick @ Overijse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=salfFYuinwY (@1:03)

As for suspension: as far as I can remember, they were put out of the race, but no further suspension.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

And the Groenendaal punch lead me to a fighting Hinault @ Paris-Nice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqMqCc1Qy7E&feature=related

 

[Cobber]

Not quite as bad as Eric Cantona's Kung Fu demonstration....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovYWY4Pf9_M

 

[hrotha]

Not quite as bad as Eric Cantona's Kung Fu demonstration....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovYWY4Pf9_M

Which he recently named the finest moment of his career.

 

[The Hitch]

Messi kicks the ball with the outside of his foot. He tries to keep it inside the field. No harm intended.

But even IF any harm was intended. It is impossible to compare cycling with football.
In cycling you pass every supporter 1 time, at 20km/h at least. In football you sit in a stadium with 80.000 people who are against you, for 90 minutes long, trying there best to insult every player of the opponent as good as they can. A player like Messi gets extra attention of the audience of course.
This doesn't happen in cycling.

Yes, he tries to keep it infield once its already out, and somehow manages to have it go full power into the supporters.

And while you may have 80 000 people against you, you never get anywhere near 79 000 of them and the fans that insult his mom or whatever are a minority to begin with.

Moroever he only visits the Santiago Bernabau once or max twice every season, so dont make it out as if he has to put up with it all the time. Once a year pfff. If he dont like it he can skip that match.

and even if he did hear some insults (highly unlikely) and actually lost it over some crap like that, then i highly doubt it was the fans he kicked the ball into that were behind it.

I do however find it surprising and interesting that football fans on this forum have no problem seeing cyclists push themselves to the limit for hours on end on mountain stages, but believe 200 grand a week footballers are getting the hard end of the stick when someone theyve never seen before occasionaly insults their mom.

 

[Handbrake]

I can't believe anyone can defend Messi here. He clearly deliberately smacked the ball low and hard directly at spectators after the ball is out of play at very close range which he should of been sent off for Violent Conduct. For those who don't know the rules of the game you can be sent off for acts against spectators like Violent Conduct or Foul & Abusive language and jestures. The most skilled footballer in the world hasn't kicked it at the spectators accidentally and wasn't trying to boot it high into the stands as he makes a deliberate effort to get over the ball. It's lucky he didn't hit a child in the face which could do some serious damage at close range at that pace.

If a player reacts to abuse from the crowd even if it is about his mum he is a total moron. No one from the crowd wouldn't know his mum f they walked into her.

Messi loses a lot of respect for that.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Good post. Agree with Handbrake.

 

[Parrulo]

i love how every1 says messi is a little angel and then this . . .

ronaldo gets insulted a million times harder and has never gone this far. i doubt they were singing the "muerete cristiano" or "esse portugues hijo puta es!!!" or any other variation of the dozens of offensive songs they have for ronaldo to messi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QIIyhztJEw

if it were a cyclist doing this he would be in trouble but since it was messi "the angel" and he is a barcelona "the saint team" player nothing will happen

iirc cristiano got 3 or 4 games for flipping the bird to the benfica fans a few years ago (must be hard getting insulted by the fans of the club of your heart XD)

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

I posted a lot of videos of cyclists doing much worse things to spectators. Were they in trouble? No.

And yes, I do believe messi's intention was to keep the ball inside...

 

[The Hitch]

I posted a lot of videos of cyclists doing much worse things to spectators. Were they in trouble? No.

And yes, I do believe messi's intention was to keep the ball inside...

No offense but I feel you have some moral compass problem if you think those things are much worse.

The first video is an attack on a grown man. Assault on 1 individual capable of taking it. Should he be banned for that yes.

The second one is even worse as it could have hit a person on either side, but it was at the end of the day, a half assed kick at an adult more than capable of taking it.

Smashing the ball however at random people is in a different league. Again, random people. They have never crossed Messi in their life. Their crime is they went to watch a game. These things can sting when they hit your hand coming from a guy in the park. A ball smashed at close range unexpectidly into the face can make you never pretty again.
I remember in a football match I once saw the ball narrowly missing a child in the stand and there was a huge gasp after which the mother took the child away.

It takes an idiot to attack someone who he feels have wronged him. It however takes a nutjob to attack a random person in the steet.

Oh and the fact that he is one of those Unesco goodwill thingies, and is a roll model for kids (handsomly rewarded for it as well) makes his actions more despicable then a cyclist.

 

[Nastyy]

What Messi did wasn't nice. But footballers get hard time from the fans, especially in important matches like El Clasico. Real fans were shouting something at Messi and he lost his cool a bit. The way Messi sees it that the fans shout at him so it doesn't matter who the ball hits, as long as it's a Real fan. It's kinda like in the army if someone breaks the rules, everybody gets punished. And it's not like getting hit by a ball will kill you, if you're paying attention you can easily block it or dodge the ball. BS by Messi but not that big of a deal.

The Cantona case is much different. Cantona isn't called the King of Old Trafford for no reason, mess with the King and he'll beat you up. Oh! Ah! Cantona!

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Do you guys ever played football yourselves? Ever tried to keep a ball inside? It's not that rare it flies the opposite way...

And what's wrong with my moral compass if I think interrupting your sport and start kick-boxing against a spectator is much worse than (semi?)accidentally hitting some spectators with a ball while on the run??

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

So if Messi stopped playing his game, went up to a person, and knocked him in the face, you would have find this less shocking?

 

[The Hitch]

If Messi was trying to keep the ball in and accidentally smashed it full power into the fans while it was out of play, then the cyclo cross guy slipped resulting in him putting out his foot to try to regain balance, and the guy punching the fan was actually running from Godzilla, and accidentally run into the fan causing them both to fall over.

If it was all an accident one wonders why the pathetic - footballers are so so poor, they get called bad names, excuse was used.

Next well be hearing about what an injustice it is that he has to wake up early in the morning.

And lets also not forget that Messi had to spend 15 minutes before the match signing autographs. With that in mind lets put his kicking the ball into the crowd into context.

Who in his position wouldnt lash out

 

[Mambo95]

I do however find it surprising and interesting that football fans on this forum have no problem seeing cyclists push themselves to the limit for hours on end on mountain stages, but believe 200 grand a week footballers are getting the hard end of the stick when someone theyve never seen before occasionaly insults their mom.

That's because we've been to football matches and heard the abuse for ourselves. Some of it makes the Sol Campbell song seem like a nursery rhyme.

Should they take any abuse for their pay packet? Monkey noises and bananas aimed at black players, Auchwitz songs to Jewish players etc, etc. What wage makes these tolerable? What about coins, flares and other missiles being thrown. Is £20,000 a week enough? Or is it only OK to those on double that. If the ball had hit the hand of a millionaire, would that make it more acceptable than if it hit a street cleaner?

Don't you earn enough not to get your knickers in a twist about this minor incident?

If it was all an accident one wonders why the pathetic - footballers are so so poor, they get called bad names, excuse was used.

Because if it was an accident then there's no issue other than you not earning enough not to be offended.

 

[hrotha]

If it was an accident I'd have expected him to apologize immediately.