Looks to me if Alberto is cleared he has a uphill battle with the public to believe him again.
What should he do? Post his blood vaules?
What should he do? Post his blood vaules?
To be quite honest if he is cleared, the general public won't think differently about him compared to how they thought about him prior to the incident. If that happens most of the media will gloss over the entire fact that he was caught, look at the backdated TUE of Armstrong, look at the new love of many of the reporters about Vino and there are many more examples, most doping is forgotten within a few yearsthehog said:
It depends on what you define as "regular values".sniper said:Haven't dopers by now learned to control their blood values and bio-passport in order for these not to look suspitious?
I mean, with abnormal blood values we know with a high degree of certainty that somebody blooddoped himself, but, vice versa, with regular values we can not at all be sure somebody did not blooddope himself, correct?
I like incendiaries! The first thing is to take care of what goes in his body. He's going to want to know what's going in his mouth, where it came from, to have an idea of the chances it might be tainted (no more beef from Spain or pork from China). Then anything else like posting blood values, as you say, might be beneficial. If it were me, I'd post values if it wasn't too much trouble and the data was secure so it could not be tampered with. I wouldn't put my credit card number out there for everyone to see. Likewise, if the data could be tampered with I wouldn't put it out there either.L'arriviste said:Hey hog, you've started another interesting and non-incendiary thread: congrats!
If he is cleared, in his vindication he probably won't feel any need for greater transparency.
If he is suspended and comes back, then of course that could happen and it might be beneficial to him.
For cycling as a whole though, I think every rider would need to post their values and there would need to be a considerable period of rapprochement (coupled with continued consumer uptake) for the sport to get healthy.
I disagree with this point. The UCI has pretty much said it will appeal an "unfavourable" result, and IMO they would not have recommended a sanction if they did not believe he was guilty. Their consideration of the image of the sport (and not aiming towards a sanction) is something they were considering prior to sending this case to the Spanish Feds.theswordsman said:since the UCI is more concerned with the image of the sport than anything else, I think the odds of them appealing a Spanish Federation decision go down if a guy who has won five grand tours, including two in one year, plans to ride all three.
Quite simply - no, he shouldn't have to - if he is cleared he is innocent.thehog said:
Yes. Perhaps WADA is trustworthy enough. Applicable at ProTeam level, the programme could be part paid for by teams and the remainder by any user (journos, fans, etc) who wants to pay, say, €5 a year to get open online access (read-only, of course).Mongol_Waaijer said:For cycling as a whole though, I think every rider would need to post their values
I would rather an independent organization with no link to either the cyclist, his team or especially the UCI made his independently tested values publically available.
Otherwise what is to stop data fabrication as PR stunt?
I like a few of your ideas. Adding on a bit to what you started. If there was a database of blood and testing date, and say there were gaps, a rider or team could submit their own testing data to fill in those holes. I believe a few teams like Garmin, and a few others have nearly weekly testing. If done by an accredited lab, perhaps that info can be directly uploaded so that there is transparency, and no fudging the numbers.theswordsman said:I've been suggesting it on his website for a couple of months - the last after Ricco said he's going to do it once his new website is up. When I was still blogging, I used to look at Basso's SRM data online, especially for the 2009 Giro. But I'm not sure how many people bothered to register to see his blood values. I think that for a lot of people, it was enough to know that Aldo Sassi and Mapei were watching blood volume or whatever to spot manipulation.
Some people will think Contador cheated no matter what, even if it had nothing to do with Clenbuterol. Some people will believe in him as a person and as a cyclist no matter what. People who aren't really into the sport but follow sports news will probably go with whatever the headlines say - "Contador found innocent" or whatever.
The blood values would probably only be useful if you have someone totally trustworthy to explain to the rest of us what it means. I kind of expect that people are into those as fans are more motivated to try to spot a cheater than to clear an innocent man. But posting them would be one show of good faith - just a part of winning back fans who've seen him run a gauntlet in the press for a few months.
Attending Saxo camp was a positive step. After a couple of months picturing him as a doper, people are seeing him on a bike with his new team, being almost carried off by a kite, etc. The brief statement from Andy Ramos (on his first day back from vacation) was another tiny step, getting the public to think of the case not as a guy trying to cheat to win, but comparing it to an injured tennis player French kissing a hot cocaine user at a South Beach club.
The L'Equipe story today about him possibly riding all three grand tours next year was another small but positive step. Some people will revisit the discussion about how well he might do, now with the knowledge of the courses for the Giro and Tour, and knowing the final compositions of teams. And since the UCI is more concerned with the image of the sport than anything else, I think the odds of them appealing a Spanish Federation decision go down if a guy who has won five grand tours, including two in one year, plans to ride all three.
The posting of blood values would be a sign of transparency. I think that the UCI should post not the data, but the fact that tests took place, for all riders. Make it so fans and journos can type in a name and see the dates a guy was tested, and whether it was just for the bio passport or actually looking for something. That way we can see if there were big gaps before a performance where something might have happened, or if he was tested so often there were no tracks to fall through.
The biggest thing for Alberto is to clear the first hurdle, soon, and for a lot of casual fans, the case would be considered closed. He could race while WADA decides what to do. And Alberto attacking on a climb in horrible weather during an early stage race would do a lot for the rest of us. If anyone made it to the end of this post, have a great day.
Believe him again? What is this "again" stuff?thehog said:
...are you sure there will be any room left on the Chamois of pro cycling for another skidmark once the Feds are done with the Uniballer???Polish said:Alberto will be a stain, a skidmark in the chamois of pro cycling.
Allow me to summarize your post: "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!"Polish said:Believe him again? What is this "again" stuff?
Alberto was Booed on the TdF Podium this year fcol.
Well before he was busted for Clen...
Many stopped believing years ago.
Puerto. Verbier. Chasing down Klodi. Chasing down Vino. Wheelset jealousy.
Attacking during Andy's mechanical. Rasmussen gift. Finger bang bang.
Many Alberto haters. And the SSDD file for Alberto continues to grow & grow.
That said, I do NOT think the main problem will be the booing/mooing FANS.
It will be the fellow RIDERS in the peloton. He is not well liked. Not a patron by any stretch. Clean Young French riders have trashed Alberto. Important Saxo riders jumped ship when news of Alberto's signing surfaced.
Etc Etc Bang Bang.
Alberto will be a stain, a skidmark in the chamois of pro cycling.
Posting blood values would not help.
i believe Armstrong's chamois is enormous, but still there would not be enough room for Contador.Siriuscat said:...are you sure there will be any room left on the Chamois of pro cycling for another skidmark once the Feds are done with the Uniballer???
Alberto Contador....Screwed over (allegedly) to take the heat of McQuaid and Armstrong!!