If The TDF was an Individual Race & not a Teams Event......

[auscyclefan94]

You need strength and power to ride a 15kg fixed gear bike for 400km a day with no drafting, no help whatsoever. The featherweights didn't bother entering the tour in ye olde days because power/weight ratio wasn't important. No way Alberto would be able to beat a strong individual rider like Cancellara. No dream time here .

It would be between big strong guys like Cancellara, Hushovd and Boonen, not climbers like AC, Schecklet, Armstrong or Evans. The traditional GC guys would have no hope in old conditions, old rules, old bikes. I'd have no hope, i'm a featherweight too

So boonen, hushovd and canc are going to stay with evans, schleck and conti when the roads go up lets say the tourmalet.

 

[Anonymous]

So boonen, hushovd and canc are going to stay with evans, schleck and conti when the roads go up lets say the tourmalet.

hell yeah..

well actually, aren't we talking like the old old old days in this thread? like the 1903 tour? so the tourmalet wouldn't be a feature right?. even if it did feature in this hypothetical, it would be in a 400km stage. so 20-25km up the tourmalet, ON A FIXED GEAR, on a heavy bike with all that luggage, the strong guys are gonna be up there. even if they weren't, there is probably 200km of flats where, pushing their bigger FIXED GEAR, they put tonnes of time into the spaniards and mountain goats. sure, maybe the 'climbers' decide to stop, flip their wheel to a smaller gear, adjust the chain tension, and set off again, but even on the heavy bikes the strong guys still win the tour, not the featherweights.

in le old days, the toughest 'mountain' might have been just a hill. which is why I said canc would beat AC up a mountain (i was being too smart for all you guys, I thought you would have realised their were no mountains - or real mountains - in the first tours). i thought we were talking about the old days as, the first ever tour here. In which case, as I said, on 15kg fixies, carrying equipment, long stages, only the real hard men would enter. so, no spaniards, and I doubt cadel would enter either.

no use for mountain goats in the early days, because on that equipment with those rules, the big strong guys win.

 

[Moondance]

If The TDF was an Individual Race & not a Teams Event...... It would be ridiculously boring.

 

[Angliru]

You need strength and power to ride a 15kg fixed gear bike for 400km a day with no drafting, no help whatsoever. The featherweights didn't bother entering the tour in ye olde days because power/weight ratio wasn't important. No way Alberto would be able to beat a strong individual rider like Cancellara. No dream time here .

It would be between big strong guys like Cancellara, Hushovd and Boonen, not climbers like AC, Schecklet, Armstrong or Evans. The traditional GC guys would have no hope in old conditions, old rules, old bikes. I'd have no hope, i'm a featherweight too

No, what you've done is ignored the premise that the OP created as the topic of discussion, and chosen your own personal scenario (fixed gear bikes!??) that of course would favor the classic type riders. It was my understanding that the OP set up the simple parameters of "no teams", every rider for himself.

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

Thanks Angliru.
Yeah - after reading about the early days of the TDF it got me wondering how things would be in 2010 if it was "Every Man for Himself" Modern bikes and all the bells and whistles etc, but no teams. Some might argue that Cadel has ridden that way recently, plus Bert last year and the way Vino has ridden in the past.....in fact, Vino would be a good pick methinks.

 

[Stealth]

If The TDF was an Individual Race & not a Teams Event...... It would be ridiculously boring.

I really disagree; it would be different, not boring.

Also I think that Luis Leon Sanchez and Phillipe Gilbert would both have an outside shot.

 

[Stealth]

while in this scenario you are saying "no teams", nationalities would kick in.......Contador would win going away.

I dont think that nationalities would kick in like we see in the world championship road race, at least I would hope not.

Contador? He wouldn't have a chance, he's like a rat, only doing good for himself and a pest to everyone else.

 

[Sum_of_Marc]

Contador? He wouldn't have a chance, he's like a rat, only doing good for himself and a pest to everyone else.

Surely those attributes are perfect for an individual race with no teams and in theory at least, no teamwork?

 

[Archibald]

Second, thought, if it was like it used to be, carrying all your own equipment, no team to break the wind, etc., you might pick someone who's just hard, like Jens Voight.

if not so past it, then O'Grady fits that bill and would be better than Jens

 

[issoisso]

......It would be the same as when it WAS an individual event, in the early days. The luckiest wins, not the best.

 

[Angliru]

I dont think that nationalities would kick in like we see in the world championship road race, at least I would hope not.

Contador? He wouldn't have a chance, he's like a rat, only doing good for himself and a pest to everyone else.

Individual though it may be, alliances will be made on the road and even prior to the event by like-speaking members of the peloton, each with their own interests of course. If theycan come to some common ground on how best to achieve their goals while working together, they will do it. The Spanish have shown an definite willingness to do this. I'm sure the other nationalities are likely to do the same. Even some of the riders who have a shared interest in let's say hammering the little climbers senseless in the open plains with strong winds playing a factor in creating echelons and breaking up the peloton will band together to further their interests.

Its just that once one is in the mountains while drafting can be used it's less of a factor. The "hard men" would be on their own when the little climbers decided to ride at a tempo that heavier/non-climbers have no hope of setting.
It's here where IMO the Tour will be won or lost.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Contador? He wouldn't have a chance, he's like a rat, only doing good for himself and a pest to everyone else.

LOL, every Spanish rider would help Contador because he's Spanish andf they like him on a personal level.
When exactly did you see him be a pest to "everyone else"?


@angliru: I just can't see Belgian, Italian or Dutch riders all working together. Spaniards have proven time and again that they will help a fellow Spaniard even if it's not in their own interest.
Italians and Belgians only agree every now and then during the worlds, but most of the times they ride for themselves or teammates from their sponsor teams.
Dutch? No way. Boogerd and Dekker tried to kill each other every chance they got and Kroon will always think he has a chance of his own. Maybe with the new generation it will be different, but I doubt it.

 

[theyoungest]

LOL, every Spanish rider would help Contador because he's Spanish andf they like him on a personal level.
When exactly did you see him be a pest to "everyone else"?

Exactly, Contador would have the biggest chance of winning precisely because of his many Spanish friends. Lulu Sanchez, SamSan and Valverde would gladly sacrifice their chances for him.

 

[Anonymous]

No, what you've done is ignored the premise that the OP created as the topic of discussion, and chosen your own personal scenario (fixed gear bikes!??) that of course would favor the classic type riders. It was my understanding that the OP set up the simple parameters of "no teams", every rider for himself.

What's with the moderation? I just followed polish's good question about whether we are discussing the "old old days"

did not Desgrange want the race to be on fixed gear bikes?

in the future I will follow the OP's "parameters" and hopefully the fun-police will leave me to do so

 

[Ferminal]

You have to eliminate all teamwork. Throw away national lines etc. Obviously without teams people revert to a national/social level.

You have to imagine it with no helpers, every man working only to maximise his time gap against as many opponents as possible.

There would be a much smaller field to start with...

 

[Angliru]

What's with the moderation? I just followed polish's good question about whether we are discussing the "old old days"

did not Desgrange want the race to be on fixed gear bikes?

in the future I will follow the OP's "parameters" and hopefully the fun-police will leave me to do so

Sorry to spoil your fun MG! Just trying to hold the discussion true to the OP's description of the event. A moderator I am not.

I would hope Desgrange wanted at the minimum single speeds and not fixed gears! I'd imagine they'd have some issues descending on a single speed and especially cornering (or trying to) at speed.

 

[US Patent Exploding Cyclist]

You have to eliminate all teamwork. Throw away national lines etc. Obviously without teams people revert to a national/social level.

You have to imagine it with no helpers, every man working only to maximise his time gap against as many opponents as possible.

There would be a much smaller field to start with...

I think that's a pretty good point, and also makes it harder for the climbers to not lose so much time on the flat stages. With out the pack filler, the peloton would not travel as fast and therefore not cover all the breaks. Heck, some of the true mountain goats might not finish a stage inside the time limit if you get a bunch of TT guys in a successful break.

 

[taiwan]

One interesting thing about the OP idea (a three-week time trial?) is that there wouldn't be 'tactical' riding in the same way: no attacks. Contador's unanswerable change of pace on climbs would not be of use.
Another is that the race would be much more physically demanding. You would lose more weight. A kick would be less advantage, better endurance would. Who improves towards the end of a tour, and places consistently?

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry to spoil your fun MG! Just trying to hold the discussion true to the OP's description of the event. A moderator I am not.

I would hope Desgrange wanted at the minimum single speeds and not fixed gears! I'd imagine they'd have some issues descending on a single speed and especially cornering (or trying to) at speed.

forgiven. upon reading my response to you, it looked a little nasty - it was not intended that way. but i was just following where i thought the thread was going. FWIW, it it was the same rules as the 1903 tour, Canc, Boonen and Hushovd still get my vote haha

Yeh fixies are nasty. But I believe the first tours were on them, but I may be misinformed. I was aware that they rode fixed gears with two different sized rear cogs on each side of the rear wheel, so they had a smaller gear for climbs, and a bigger gear for descents and flats and just flipped the wheel when necessary. But yeh, wouldn't want to go round a tight corner on a fixie hey!!