Il Lombardia 2015, Oct 4th

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Nibali will be the captain, no question about it. If in top form he's probably the number one favorite on this parcours. But hard to see him in top shape after such a disappointing year.

I think Wellens will be up there no matter the weather or how hard it will be raced.

At least 5 riders are better then Nibali in such a hard classic. Purito and Valverde miles ahead for example.

Loool

Well Purito is clearly better classics rider then Nibali, maybe not miles ahead but clearly better

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Well Purito is clearly better classics rider then Nibali, maybe not miles ahead but clearly better

Yes, quite obviously so.

Best results in the four major hilly classics:
Purito: Lombardia win (x2), LBL 2nd, Fleche win, AGR 2nd.
Nibali: Lombardia 5th, LBL 2nd, Fleche 8th, AGR never in top 10.

There's no comparison, whether your look at all four or just at Lombardia and LBL. Purito's record is a mile better.

 

[KyoGrey]

Yes, let's not talk about Nibali as if he was Bartoli or Bettini. His reputation in hilly classics is built over a single great spring that was 2012 and the 2013 WC where he was car-paced.

Valverde, Dan Martin, Kwiatkowski, Purito, Gilbert, Van Avermaet, Rui Costa...even young Wellens and Yates have showed to be better in one-day races.

Having said that...Nibali can have a chance in Lombardia because this years parcours fits him incredibly well.

 

[Flamin]

In a hard classic? No way. Both Purito's wins in Lombardia were not 'hard classics'.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

In a hard classic? No way. Both Purito's wins in Lombardia were not 'hard classics'.

Which "hard classic" did Nibali win?

Was Lombardia easier or harder than Nibali's biggest one day race wins, the Trofeo Melinda and the GP Mig?

 

[Velolover2]

Come on, Flamin. Rodriguez is ten times the classics rider that Nibali is. It's not even an question.

Nibali's longe-range attacks have never worked for a reason. He doesn't have what it takes to win a classic. And it's not just Purito and Valverde who are bigger favorites. There are like 5-10 riders who have a better chance.

Costa, Uran, Majka, Martin, even Mollema.

 

[Velolover2]

Newcorners like Alaphilippe and Adam Yates also have a better chance of winning it.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

In a hard classic? No way. Both Purito's wins in Lombardia were not 'hard classics'.

Which "hard classic" did Nibali win?

Was Lombardia easier or harder than Nibali's biggest one day race wins, the Trofeo Melinda and the GP Mig?

Yeah, let's totally ignore Lombardia 2010-11, Liège 2012, Sanremo 2012, Firenze...

Even if he didn't win any of them, I still rate it at least as high as what Purito has done.

 

[Velolover2]

He has no results, Flamin, Attacking doesn't make you a great classics rider. You wouldn't call Voight or Voeckler classics riders for a good reson.

You need to have be explosive and have a nice sprint in order to win.

 

[Flamin]

You do realise he was 1km away from pulling off an epic win in Liège, right?

 

[Velolover2]

You could say that about a lot of riders.

Fact is he has zero WT classics wins, not even a podium.

 

[Velolover2]

Ok he has one in Liege, but that's about it.

 

[Flamin]

Re:

You could say that about a lot of riders.

Fact is he has zero WT classics wins, not even a podium.

Name some?

And you might want to check the facts again.

Edit: 2 actually.

 

[Velolover2]

Depends on your criteria. For how far out do you have to attack? For how many k's do you have to keep the GC group behind you?

 

[Billie]

Re:

Ok he has one in Liege, but that's about it.

3rd in San Remo also.

And won Plouay in 2006

 

[Valv.Piti]

On such a hilly parcour, if in shape, he is definetely one of the favorites/most dangerous outsiders in the field. I think he will do very well if he really wants to end the season on a high note. Fact is that Lombardia, with these climbs, simply isnt comparable to Amstel, San Sebastian or Fleche. Its like comparing Paris-Nice to Tour de France.

If its raced hard and it rains like it does a whole bunch in Lombardia, he can definetely win. No question.

 

[Flamin]

Re:

Depends on your criteria. For how far out do you have to attack? For how many k's do you have to keep the GC group behind you?

Anything but a late surge on the final climb..

 

[Arredondo]

Re:

In a hard classic? No way. Both Purito's wins in Lombardia were not 'hard classics'.

Both in rain. 2012 was a hell. But it doesn't matter really

Nibali is a great GC rider. But not really special in classics. Purito is made for the classics. A true winner in the classics. So of course better.

 

[WheelofGear]

Re:

Come on, Flamin. Rodriguez is ten times the classics rider that Nibali is. It's not even an question.

Nibali's longe-range attacks have never worked for a reason. He doesn't have what it takes to win a classic. And it's not just Purito and Valverde who are bigger favorites. There are like 5-10 riders who have a better chance.

Costa, Uran, Majka, Martin, even Mollema.

I get it with Purito and Valverde, but saying that Majka or Mollema are just as good a classics rider is just plain trolling.

I define a classics rider as someone suited to hilly terrain in all kinds of weather. Sure, you have to be explosive.. but that's not the whole thing.

 

[Velolover2]

Re: Re:

In a hard classic? No way. Both Purito's wins in Lombardia were not 'hard classics'.

Both in rain. 2012 was a hell. But it doesn't matter really

Nibali is a great GC rider. But not really special in classics. Purito is made for the classics. A true winner in the classics. So of course better.

Yeah. And he increased his lead on a wet descent in both. But hey, isn't that something that is completely unique to Nibali?

 

[Velolover2]

Re: Re:

Come on, Flamin. Rodriguez is ten times the classics rider that Nibali is. It's not even an question.

Nibali's longe-range attacks have never worked for a reason. He doesn't have what it takes to win a classic. And it's not just Purito and Valverde who are bigger favorites. There are like 5-10 riders who have a better chance.

Costa, Uran, Majka, Martin, even Mollema.

I get it with Purito and Valverde, but saying that Majka or Mollema are just as good a classics rider is just plain trolling.

I define a classics rider as someone suited to hilly terrain in all kinds of weather. Sure, you have to be explosive.. but that's not the whole thing.

Eh, I said that Uran and Majka have a better chance of winning based on their results in Lombardia. Not that they are better than him. But Uran most likely is.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

You do realise he was 1km away from pulling off an epic win in Liège, right?

So is Voeckler in Lombardia 2013, Caruso and Pozzovivo in Liege 2014, Roelandts in Ghent-Wevelgem this year, etc. It's a good ride, really good, but not more than that. He needs to win some classics to be considered great, his attack are not enough. Purito is much better, deal with that. Heck Iglinsky won that Liege in a great manner, but he's not considered classics great rider, Kreuziger won Amstel with great attack and even him doesn't top the list of great classics contenders. It's not enough, you need to perform and you need to perform constantly!

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

In a hard classic? No way. Both Purito's wins in Lombardia were not 'hard classics'.

Both in rain. 2012 was a hell. But it doesn't matter really

Nibali is a great GC rider. But not really special in classics. Purito is made for the classics. A true winner in the classics. So of course better.

Sure the rain made it a tough race, but when half the peloton arrives together at the foot of the final climb, I tend not to rate it as highly as some other races.

 

[Velolover2]

Sorry. You said, Mollema. Don't know about him, but Uran is just as good IMO.

 

[Arredondo]

Re: Re:

In a hard classic? No way. Both Purito's wins in Lombardia were not 'hard classics'.

Both in rain. 2012 was a hell. But it doesn't matter really

Nibali is a great GC rider. But not really special in classics. Purito is made for the classics. A true winner in the classics. So of course better.

Sure the rain made it a tough race, but when half the peloton arrives together at the foot of the final climb, I tend not to rate it as highly as some other races.

The time a small group of favorites arrive at the bottom of a climb, is long gone. Lombardia 2010 i remember, but that was because the weather was really atrocious.

Even in races like Montreal you need to have really bad conditions to not get a whole peloton at the bottom of the final climb.