Il Lombardia 2015, Oct 4th

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

On a hard parcours? Yes, I'd say they're pretty equal which I backed up with examples. I've yet to hear a valid example of why Purito is supposedly clearly better though.

Because he wins.

On such parcours, yes.

Talking about winning, Nibali is also less focused on the classics, you know, because he can win GT's, unlike some

So tell me on what parcours is Nibali better?! In Liege he certainly isn't, Lombardia even worse, in Firenze Purito was better. Maybe he needs Angliru in one-day race to be better?
As for focusing on classics, if he had won some, he would have been focused alright

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

On a hard parcours? Yes, I'd say they're pretty equal which I backed up with examples. I've yet to hear a valid example of why Purito is supposedly clearly better though.

Because he wins.

On such parcours, yes.

Talking about winning, Nibali is also less focused on the classics, you know, because he can win GT's, unlike some

So tell me on what parcours is Nibali better?! In Liege he certainly isn't, Lombardia even worse, in Firenze Purito was better. Maybe he needs Angliru in one-day race to be better?
As for focusing on classics, if he had won some, he would have been focused alright

How hard can it be to just read? stop spinning the discussion so it suits your case better. And then I'm the one being accused of trolling

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Everything started from my comment, which definately wasn't about who the best classic rider is.

I simply stated that on this parcours (which is something we haven't seen in a Monument for at least 5 years) and in bad weather conditions, Nibali is my number one favorite if in top shape. Purito comes right after him. I'd probably rate him higher if I hadn't seen him fade in the Vuelta.

No, that's NOT what you said. Here's your quote:

Nibali will be the captain, no question about it. If in top form he's probably the number one favorite on this parcours. But hard to see him in top shape after such a disappointing year.

You said nothing about the weather. And it's a ridiculous comment. There's never been monument (and likely never will be) where Nibali is the number one favorite.

 

[SafeBet]

Ok sorry I thought I mentioned the weather. That's what I had in mind anyway

 

[Bushman]

Re:

On a hard parcours? Yes, I'd say they're pretty equal which I backed up with examples. I've yet to hear a valid example of why Purito is supposedly clearly better though.

But then I have already said why your examples are a bit sketchy, to say the least.

In WC 2013, which is one of the hardest one day races in recently years Nibali was strong, yes, but was still beaten by Purito. MSR is an invalid example as it's not a 'tough' classic (remember you were the one who started talking about toughness of the races). Liege 2012 was a great performance by Nibali but it wasn't by any means an exceptionally hard race and Purito clearly has the superior record in LBL. Purito also has the superior record in Lombardia.

Maybe 'miles away' is a bit of an exaggeration when describing the relationship between Purito and Nibali in the classics but the cold facts are that Purito is clearly a better one day racer than Nibali.

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

Re: Re:

On a hard parcours? Yes, I'd say they're pretty equal which I backed up with examples. I've yet to hear a valid example of why Purito is supposedly clearly better though.

Because he wins.

On such parcours, yes.

Talking about winning, Nibali is also less focused on the classics, you know, because he can win GT's, unlike some

So tell me on what parcours is Nibali better?

MSR?

 

[Brullnux]

A high mountain stage

But seriously, Nibali has to be a favourite for this race, as do Purito and Bala (if fatigue allows). Tbh I think it's too hard for Jules but the Yates' will top 10 probably and one of them will top 5, not sure which though, most likely Adam. Maybe too long and hard them to win. They have never really proven themselves in such a race, San Sebastián is defo not this hard and Montreal likewise. However, their good mountain performances in the Tour bode well, but they were all in relatively short stages.

Wellens has a good chance here too. Bardet and Galloping Fox are considerations for France too. It is a very open race.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

On a hard parcours? Yes, I'd say they're pretty equal which I backed up with examples. I've yet to hear a valid example of why Purito is supposedly clearly better though.

But then I have already said why your examples are a bit sketchy, to say the least.

In WC 2013, which is one of the hardest one day races in recently years Nibali was strong, yes, but was still beaten by Purito. MSR is an invalid example as it's not a 'tough' classic (remember you were the one who started talking about toughness of the races). Liege 2012 was a great performance by Nibali but it wasn't by any means an exceptionally hard race and Purito clearly has the superior record in LBL. Purito also has the superior record in Lombardia.

Maybe 'miles away' is a bit of an exaggeration when describing the relationship between Purito and Nibali in the classics but the cold facts are that Purito is clearly a better one day racer than Nibali.

Oh come on, Nibali surely was as strong as Purito in Firenze.

I mentioned MSR as one of Nibali's top results in a top level classic in a reaction to ZV.. So, let's not count it, fine by me.

Liège 2012 was the last really good edition. Nowadays we have this pathetic conservative racing, therefore I rate it a gazillion times higher than Purito's podium this year for example. 2013 was somewhere in between..

Similar with Lombardia. The last proper route was 2010, where Nibali was on his way to a podium until he crashed.

Obviously this kind of conservative racing in Liège and the new Lombardia route in 2011 heavily favoured Purito. For Nibali.. well, on the contrary. It's basically an uphill sprint these days, hence the better record for Purito.

Does this make Purito a more suitable rider for 'modern times classics racing'? Definitely yes. Is he 'clearly better' than Nibali on a real hard parcours? No he's not.

 

[Gigs_98]

Okay Flamin, you don't really seem to be teachable, but I will try it again.
Saying Nibali was as strong as Purito in Firenze doesnt matter, Nibali being able to hold Puritos pace easily in a classic doesnt matter, every case in which Nibali doesnt drop Purito doesnt matter, because Purito is the better sprinter. Lets say Purito hadn't attacked in Firenze, Purito still would have finished in front of him. Moreover almost every classic has one steep and short climb near the finish. AGR, Flèche Wallone, LBL, Classica San Sebastian, GP Quest France, Quebec, Lombardia to only mention the hilly WT classics. In a 1 on 1 Purito would win in all of these cases, if both are in their top shape. Ofc its always possible to drop someone earlier but its not like Purito is a bad climber. He maybe is slightly under the level of nibali but you don't get 4 gt podiums without any climbing abilities.

 

[WheelofGear]

I'll love to see Rebellin pulling "a Horner" and win Lombardia. One of the few hilly classics he never won.

He seems to be in-form. And he will be there with his team.

 

[Eagle]

Okay Flamin, you don't really seem to be teachable, but I will try it again.
Saying Nibali was as strong as Purito in Firenze doesnt matter, Nibali being able to hold Puritos pace easily in a classic doesnt matter, every case in which Nibali doesnt drop Purito doesnt matter, because Purito is the better sprinter. Lets say Purito hadn't attacked in Firenze, Purito still would have finished in front of him. Moreover almost every classic has one steep and short climb near the finish. AGR, Flèche Wallone, LBL, Classica San Sebastian, GP Quest France, Quebec, Lombardia to only mention the hilly WT classics. In a 1 on 1 Purito would win in all of these cases, if both are in their top shape. Ofc its always possible to drop someone earlier but its not like Purito is a bad climber. He maybe is slightly under the level of nibali but you don't get 4 gt podiums without any climbing abilities.

Are you even reading his comments?

Does this make Purito a more suitable rider for 'modern times classics racing'? Definitely yes.
Is he 'clearly better' than Nibali on a real hard parcours? No he's not.

 

[Gigs_98]

Okay Flamin, you don't really seem to be teachable, but I will try it again.
Saying Nibali was as strong as Purito in Firenze doesnt matter, Nibali being able to hold Puritos pace easily in a classic doesnt matter, every case in which Nibali doesnt drop Purito doesnt matter, because Purito is the better sprinter. Lets say Purito hadn't attacked in Firenze, Purito still would have finished in front of him. Moreover almost every classic has one steep and short climb near the finish. AGR, Flèche Wallone, LBL, Classica San Sebastian, GP Quest France, Quebec, Lombardia to only mention the hilly WT classics. In a 1 on 1 Purito would win in all of these cases, if both are in their top shape. Ofc its always possible to drop someone earlier but its not like Purito is a bad climber. He maybe is slightly under the level of nibali but you don't get 4 gt podiums without any climbing abilities.

Are you even reading his comments?

Does this make Purito a more suitable rider for 'modern times classics racing'? Definitely yes.
Is he 'clearly better' than Nibali on a real hard parcours? No he's not.

I read his comments and lets say my comment was rather a respond to what he wrote earlier. The classics I mentioned are the hardest classics, which exist, and in which nibali has a chance too. Ofc you could argue with cobbles classics but Nibali has never tried to win them so I don't count them. And even in Firenze, a one day race with rain, and really really much climbing, he was worse. And you also can't say he would be better in a harder classic because they just don't exist. Its like saying that Purito is the better gt rider than froome, as long as there only are one kilometer long 10% steep uphill finishes but not hard mountain stages and TT's

edit: but yes you are right I shouldnt have tried to light up the discussion again, I just wanted to write my opinion. Lets speak about the race again, from now on

 

[Taxus4a]

I hope good weather to see the race on TV, becouse is going to be an epic race.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I hope good weather to see the race on TV, becouse is going to be an epic race.

Lombardia >> WC RR

 

[Opalius]

Satan ftw?

In any case, hoping that we'll get a spectacle.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

I'll love to see Rebellin pulling "a Horner" and win Lombardia. One of the few hilly classics he never won.

He seems to be in-form. And he will be there with his team.

Apparently RCS encourages CCC to not select certain members of there roster.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

I'll love to see Rebellin pulling "a Horner" and win Lombardia. One of the few hilly classics he never won.

He seems to be in-form. And he will be there with his team.

Apparently RCS encourages CCC to not select certain members of there roster.

They welcomed back Basso and Vino, so they shouldn't be stupid on Rebellin now.

 

[jens_attacks]

unfortunately, rebellin doesn't stand a chance on such a route

can't wait for god landa show!

 

[hfer07]

Nibali should take this one without a problem, since his form is fresher in comparison to the other potential candidates. Great race to wind down the season

 

[BigMac]

Nibali should take this one without a problem, since his form is fresher in comparison to the other potential candidates. Great race to wind down the season

What makes you think that? He's anything but a certain winner here.

 

[Rollthedice]

Nibali should take this one without a problem, since his form is fresher in comparison to the other potential candidates. Great race to wind down the season

What makes you think that? He's anything but a certain winner here.

He has a good chance. Who else is in?

 

[BigMac]

Nibali should take this one without a problem, since his form is fresher in comparison to the other potential candidates. Great race to wind down the season

What makes you think that? He's anything but a certain winner here.

He has a good chance. Who else is in?

Kwiatkowski, Urán, Gallopin, Wellens, Costa, Adam Yates (if he rides) are my favourites. The two Spaniards as well, depending on how they're feeling. Nibali is a favourite too, but far from having it in the bag. Don't think he will take it. I don't know from which side they will climb San Fermo della Battaglia, that may increase or decrease Kwiat's chances as well as bring climbers to the mix.

 

[Gigs_98]

Nibali should take this one without a problem, since his form is fresher in comparison to the other potential candidates. Great race to wind down the season

What makes you think that? He's anything but a certain winner here.

He has a good chance. Who else is in?

Kwiatkowski, Urán, Gallopin, Wellens, Costa, Adam Yates (if he rides) are my favourites. The two Spaniards as well, depending on how they're feeling. Nibali is a favourite too, but far from having it in the bag. Don't think he will take it. I don't know from which side they will climb San Fermo della Battaglia, that may increase or decrease Kwiat's chances as well as bring climbers to the mix.

I'd bet on Kwiat now that he doesnt have the rainbow jersey anymore. However the favorites of my hearts are Nibali and Wellens

 

[staubsauger]

Landa & Nibali are my favorites for this.

 

[Billie]

Fränk Schleck has the big engine, the class, the experience on this parcours and supercompensation from the Vuelta while not going to America.

And there is also a 3 time winner of this race who has been working towards Lombardia since May!