Immaturity will be Contador's downfall...

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Jul 7, 2009
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Publicus said:
That's going to require some assistance from Andy Schleck, Evans and Sastre. They also need to get that kind of time on Armstrong and Levi. I think Stage 13, 15 and each of the stages after the final rest day will be critical.

If I'm Contador, I try to grab the yellow jersey on 13 (Lance is going for on 15 (mark my words)). No race radios on 13, so whatever plan they leave the bus with is it (and I expect both he and Lance to attempt to deviate). If he succeeds, he'll be the sole protected rider on the way up to Verbier which would put a serious dent in Mr. Armstrong's plans.
Unless he puts in some serious time into Lance, that still won't solve anything. What if AC has the yellow over LA on Verbier by 2 secs (or a miniscule amount) and he gets dropped by another contender like in 2007 on the stage up the Aubisque when he couldn't hold onto Rasmussen or Levi and finished down on Levi? I think in that instance LA can attack him since Astana would have a chance to win the Tour. Same if it's the other way round with LA with the jersey and he gets dropped. If they are both riding the way the are riding currently, either one of them will need minutes to be protected not just seconds.
 
Padeiro said:
Unless he puts in some serious time into Lance, that still won't solve anything. What if AC has the yellow over LA on Verbier by 2 secs (or a miniscule amount) and he gets dropped by another contender like in 2007 on the stage up the Aubisque when he couldn't hold onto Rasmussen or Levi and finished down on Levi? I think in that instance LA can attack him since Astana would have a chance to win the Tour. Same if it's the other way round with LA with the jersey and he gets dropped. If they are both riding the way the are riding currently, either one of them will need minutes to be protected not just seconds.
Why would he get dropped on Verbier which is actually easier than Arcalis? As for 2007, that was 2007. He's grown as a rider since then and the only time he's been dropped is this year in Paris-Nice when he hadn't eaten. It happens. And if it does and LA isn't dropped as well, then he can pick up the pieces. But that's why you have a back-up plan (which is what Lance is this year).

I'm not as worried about the ITT as many. Contador has improved in the discipline and with 3rd category hill about 3/4ths of the way, I think he is not as disadvantaged by the stage as some seem to predict.

What bothers me most about this situation, however, is that it shouldn't have come to this. Lance should have formed his own team or joined another team where they didn't have a GC candidate. Instead we've been subjected to a 12 month soap opera trying to determine his true motives.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
I am starting to think that is why he is acting so smug. He knows his numbers, and thinks he will take enough time to win in the ITT. (or beat Contador anyway. If he beats Sparticus, I quit.) Then he just has to follow wheels.
Word is Lance is putting out similar wattage to when he rode in 2005 and he's pretty skinny right now. I think you might be onto something here.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Publicus said:
Why would he get dropped on Verbier which is actually easier than Arcalis? As for 2007, that was 2007. He's grown as a rider since then and the only time he's been dropped is this year in Paris-Nice when he hadn't eaten. It happens. And if it does and LA isn't dropped as well, then he can pick up the pieces. But that's why you have a back-up plan (which is what Lance is this year).

I'm not as worried about the ITT as many. Contador has improved in the discipline and with 3rd category hill about 3/4ths of the way, I think he is not as disadvantaged by the stage as some seem to predict.

What bothers me most about this situation, however, is that it shouldn't have come to this. Lance should have formed his own team or joined another team where they didn't have a GC candidate. Instead we've been subjected to a 12 month soap opera trying to determine his true motives.
I don't think there's anything wrong with Lance joining Astana. Really, what other option would he have? He's been with JB since 99, Astana is pretty much Postal/Disco so he knows the team/staff/structure/strategy. It's a guarantee that he would ride all the big races, which he wouldn't have gotten with a new non-PT team. And I for one don't mind the soap opera, it's good exposure for cycling especially in the States which we desperately need. And what's wrong with having two alpha males on the same team? If AC can beat Lance's brains in, that'll be awesome, riveting stuff to watch. If LA can do likewise, same thing. I might be one of the few people who actually think this is good for cycling. I say bring it on and let them duke it out.

At least that way, someone else might be able to take advantage of it and win the Tour (please, dear God, let it be Sastre). Which, honestly, is what I really want. That would be hilarious. :D
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Padeiro said:
I don't think there's anything wrong with Lance joining Astana. Really, what other option would he have? He's been with JB since 99, Astana is pretty much Postal/Disco so he knows the team/staff/structure/strategy. It's a guarantee that he would ride all the big races, which he wouldn't have gotten with a new non-PT team. And I for one don't mind the soap opera, it's good exposure for cycling especially in the States which we desperately need. And what's wrong with having two alpha males on the same team? If AC can beat Lance's brains in, that'll be awesome, riveting stuff to watch. If LA can do likewise, same thing. I might be one of the few people who actually think this is good for cycling. I say bring it on and let them duke it out.

At least that way, someone else might be able to take advantage of it and win the Tour (please, dear God, let it be Sastre). Which, honestly, is what I really want. That would be hilarious. :D
And duking it out on the same team would be great if it were a level playing field. But it's not. What we have here is the 7 times tour winner and the young pretender... And we can argue about Lance's motives but the reality is that Lance has the ability to stitch up Alberto. So it's not hard to understand why Alberto is not 'following team orders'. Contador is doing what he has to do to win the Tour - with the team behind him it would be a no brainer but as it is it's very much in the balance.

I will enjoy watching any of Sastre, Schleck, Armstrong, Contador, (Wiggins?) winning - because to do so they will have to do something bold and/or heroic. I want the race to be won on merit not because of some backroom manouverings or because a riders confidence is eroded by his own team Again others will no doubt see this differently and argue that all is in order and as it should be and quote public statements from JB or LA.

Let the road decide - yes the road - whether it's flat or at 9% - IMHO the road would chosse Contador 8 times out of 10 (and I guess it's the other 2 times that make it exciting!)
 
180mmCrank said:
And duking it out on the same team would be great if it were a level playing field. But it's not. What we have here is the 7 times tour winner and the young pretender... And we can argue about Lance's motives but the reality is that Lance has the ability to stitch up Alberto. So it's not hard to understand why Alberto is not 'following team orders'. Contador is doing what he has to do to win the Tour - with the team behind him it would be a no brainer but as it is it's very much in the balance.

I will enjoy watching any of Sastre, Schleck, Armstrong, Contador, (Wiggins?) winning - because to do so they will have to do something bold and/or heroic. I want the race to be won on merit not because of some backroom manouverings or because a riders confidence is eroded by his own team Again others will no doubt see this differently and argue that all is in order and as it should be and quote public statements from JB or LA.

Let the road decide - yes the road - whether it's flat or at 9% - IMHO the road would chosse Contador 8 times out of 10 (and I guess it's the other 2 times that make it exciting!)
You said all that needed to be said. Thanks :cool:
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
:eek: I'll hold my hand up.
Right after his very first post on Floyd.
Admittedly, as it was early days, rather cryptic version.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=55&page=2

One of Bobby's finest efforts.

All this endless debate exposes is the fanboy's insecurity over their unbeatable one's ability to remain unbeaten.
Taking an early yellow and taxing the team, which hasn't happened, was never a problem when Uncle Lance was in his prime.
It's now being trotted out as a piece of essential strategy. The key to overall victory.
Quite obviously, on this watery course, it makes no difference.
They just can't stand the idea of a better rider on the same team, sitting in the protected position they have already mentally reserved for their loved one.
Well thank you Mr Mellow Fellow. Yes, I'm rather fond of that post.
"Bobby"
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Zen Master said:
Thanks for paying attention to this hidden gem :D



Bobby after reading this you're my true hero !!!
Oh great Zen Mastah, seer of truth, knower of reality,...I bow down to your wholiness.

It was and still is a gem. Thank you for acknowledging that.

"Bobby"
 
Jul 10, 2009
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330 billion dollars

this is great, the more discussion, the more eyes on the tour, the more money people donate to cancer research, livestrong.com, etc. I don't care if Armstrong dopes, does a Tanya Harding on Contador, has sex with animals on Good Morning America, as long as the money keeps rolling in for cancer research. This is bike racing boys and girls, its hard, humorless, and for most involved, a pretty nondescript payday, and did I mention hard, did I mention humorless?. Of course, its the time of Contador, and he must have been paid a fortune to stay on Astana, its stupid to bring in another head honcho into an already developed/seasoned team. So we have a boring tour, with a dream team and a bunch of "also rans" We'll get the melodrama of team strife, and we'll have a race within a race. Interesting to me is what Levi is doing, he would be a GC leader on any other team, now, in what, 4th place, (the third best rider on his team) he's just another domestique. sad really.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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rickibobbi said:
this is great, the more discussion, the more eyes on the tour, the more money people donate to cancer research, livestrong.com, etc. I don't care if Armstrong dopes, does a Tanya Harding on Contador, has sex with animals on Good Morning America, as long as the money keeps rolling in for cancer research. This is bike racing boys and girls, its hard, humorless, and for most involved, a pretty nondescript payday, and did I mention hard, did I mention humorless?. Of course, its the time of Contador, and he must have been paid a fortune to stay on Astana, its stupid to bring in another head honcho into an already developed/seasoned team. So we have a boring tour, with a dream team and a bunch of "also rans" We'll get the melodrama of team strife, and we'll have a race within a race. Interesting to me is what Levi is doing, he would be a GC leader on any other team, now, in what, 4th place, (the third best rider on his team) he's just another domestique. sad really.
sure it can be interesting with the astana drama but in the end having so many CG-riders on the same team isnt good for cycling in general, would have been more interesting if you had lance, leipheimer and contador on different teams. its kinda like football where you have top teams with a bunch of great players sitting on the the bench.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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This article is exactly right, Contador is intimidated by Armstrong and tried to attack to give himself confidence. Without Armstrong being there, Contador would've never made a move like that.
 
Mar 14, 2009
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mr. tibbs said:
I still don't understand how Armstrong's joining the split in stage 3 and gaining time on other GC rivals was laudable tactically, but Contador attacking in the montains to gain time on other GC rivals was "going against the plan."

Please clarify. Wasn't Friday just as good--if not better--for Astana's chances to win than the freak split on the falt stage?
it's because everyone is so far up Lance's *** he will never need a prostrate exam... if a polyp is found it will be reported on all the cycling sites within 20 minutes.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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ericthesportsman6 said:
This article is exactly right, Contador is intimidated by Armstrong and tried to attack to give himself confidence. Without Armstrong being there, Contador would've never made a move like that.
aha i didnt know that a GC-rider attacking his rivals on a mountain stage was that illogical.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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mr. tibbs said:
I still don't understand how Armstrong's joining the split in stage 3 and gaining time on other GC rivals was laudable tactically, but Contador attacking in the montains to gain time on other GC rivals was "going against the plan."

Please clarify. Wasn't Friday just as good--if not better--for Astana's chances to win than the freak split on the falt stage?
The plan was follow, but no attacks. Contador attacked. That's "going against the plan". It's just a fact. If you want to read anything into that, that's on you.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Ninety5rpm said:
The plan was follow, but no attacks. Contador attacked. That's "going against the plan". It's just a fact. If you want to read anything into that, that's on you.
Facts are facts. Bruyneel's quote: “We didn’t have a specific plan to attack, our plan was to maintain our collective strength first and wait for attacks from the others. Alberto counter-attacked after an attack, our plan had been for the riders to communicate and respond. I had no race radio at that time or TV, so it was something they decided themselves."

Contador waited for the attacks, as planned, and responded to an attack by Van den Broeck Jurgen, as planned, which was a tactic used by Cadel Evans in the Dauphne. Nothing Contador did was against Bruyneel's plans. Obviously we do not know what was decided on the road between Armstrong and Contador, but facts are facts and, according to Bruyneel, Contador did not attack against the plan.
 
ericthesportsman6 said:
This article is exactly right, Contador is intimidated by Armstrong and tried to attack to give himself confidence. Without Armstrong being there, Contador would've never made a move like that.
...and you know this because? You have a direct link to Contador's brain? You're bff with Contador and know exactly what he will do under any circumstances and when? Considering he reconned the climb 3 times, and most everyone that saw the stage parcours before hand predicted either a Contador win or at the very least a Contador attack, I'd say you couldn't be more wrong.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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The title of this thread is hilarious..the OP has no idea what they are talking about. Contador has won all three grand tours...he has not been beaten in a grand tour for 2 years...yet he is immature? I think he is doing just fine.
 

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