Indurain in the '96 Tour

We know Bjarne Riis , Mr. 60 and his hematocrit ,yadda, yada, yada,

So why are some of the real reasons Big Mig lost the ’96 tour ?

-Did he not take enough EPO ?

- Lost his motivation to train ?

-Did he not have enough racing miles in his legs ?

-Have a weaker team ?

-Was it really that cold weather and rainy stages ?

-Was he under pressure from the UCI anti doping agency ?
 
We know Bjarne Riis , Mr. 60 and his hematocrit ,yadda, yada, yada,

So why are some of the real reasons Big Mig lost the ’96 tour ?

-Did he not take enough EPO ?

- Lost his motivation to train ?

-Did he not have enough racing miles in his legs ?

-Have a weaker team ?

-Was it really that cold weather and rainy stages ?

-Was he under pressure from the UCI anti doping agency ?
I think Miggy should be VERRRRRYYYYYY lucky he's somehow escaped any EPO investigations, as pretty much everyone knows he was doing something during those 5 wins.

Granted, Have no proof, but I seem to recall someone well known to these boards, stating some ridiculous" I've been tested 856 times & never 1 positive" info, in duping millions of his disciples/sheep into believing he was "the cleans" too & how'd that work out?

Oh wait, "they all doped", right? No actually, no "they all" didn't.

But in regards to Miggy, like I said, he's VERY lucky they're leaving him alone, so he's able to fly under the radar.
 
I think Miggy should be VERRRRRYYYYYY lucky he's somehow escaped any EPO investigations, as pretty much everyone knows he was doing something during those 5 wins.

Granted, Have no proof, but I seem to recall someone well known to these boards, stating some ridiculous" I've been tested 856 times & never 1 positive" info, in duping millions of his disciples/sheep into believing he was "the cleans" too & how'd that work out?

Oh wait, "they all doped", right? No actually, no "they all" didn't.

But in regards to Miggy, like I said, he's VERY lucky they're leaving him alone, so he's able to fly under the radar.

Why would they investigate Indurain? If they took that line they would have to investigate every single previous Tour winner or major Champion. It is highly likely that Indruain was EPO doping due to his dominance in the EPO era, but other than working with some dodgy doctors and testing posting for (which was not illegal in France), in a minor race there is very little direct evidence to implicate Indurain.

You can say he was lucky that he retired before the Festina affair or that Spain was not put under the microscope the way Italy was in 1999/009, but there is relatively little evidence to go on against Indurain.

The fact he has stayed away from the cycling scene has helped as well, in fact he is a good counterpoint to Lance in that there is a narrative that you needed to be a bit of a *** to be a champion. Well Indurain was regarded as being a really nice guy and very boring, but is one of the most successful ever.

Most people who came under the doping microscope were post Festina or had their names in files(Riis, Chiappucci, Roche) or were directly accused by soigneurs or team-mates. Indurain has managed to escape all that.
 
Why would they investigate Indurain? If they took that line they would have to investigate every single previous Tour winner or major Champion. It is highly likely that Indruain was EPO doping due to his dominance in the EPO era, but other than working with some dodgy doctors and testing posting for (which was not illegal in France), in a minor race there is very little direct evidence to implicate Indurain.

You can say he was lucky that he retired before the Festina affair or that Spain was not put under the microscope the way Italy was in 1999/009, but there is relatively little evidence to go on against Indurain.

The fact he has stayed away from the cycling scene has helped as well, in fact he is a good counterpoint to Lance in that there is a narrative that you needed to be a bit of a *** to be a champion. Well Indurain was regarded as being a really nice guy and very boring, but is one of the most successful ever.

Most people who came under the doping microscope were post Festina or had their names in files(Riis, Chiappucci, Roche) or were directly accused by soigneurs or team-mates. Indurain has managed to escape all that.

He hasn't completely stayed away. He does have a race in the Navarre area of Spain which he attends. He does go to other races, usually in Spain. There are plenty of pictures of him with current Movistar riders at races. He at times will show up to Movistar's team meetings or team presentation. He's not officially part of the team anymore, but is always welcomed by them when he wants to show up somewhere. Maybe the more interesting story is that his brother is a politician who has been pushing for years for better laws to protect cyclists.

I agree he's a very good counter point to Lance. Everyone I know who has met him has said he loves meeting the fans and talking to them. Enjoys having fans/amateur cyclists join him when he's out riding (which he does).
 
He hasn't completely stayed away. He does have a race in the Navarre area of Spain which he attends. He does go to other races, usually in Spain. There are plenty of pictures of him with current Movistar riders at races. He at times will show up to Movistar's team meetings or team presentation. He's not officially part of the team anymore, but is always welcomed by them when he wants to show up somewhere. Maybe the more interesting story is that his brother is a politician who has been pushing for years for better laws to protect cyclists.

I agree he's a very good counter point to Lance. Everyone I know who has met him has said he loves meeting the fans and talking to them. Enjoys having fans/amateur cyclists join him when he's out riding (which he does).
I know he does show up at events from time to time, but he is not actively trying to be part of pro cycling or have a role in it, which is more along the lines of what I meant. Compare to Lance and his attempts to stay relevant with his podcast or even LeMond doing bits and pieces for Eurosport or whoever. When Indurain left, that was it.
 
Reactions: Koronin
I know he does show up at events from time to time, but he is not actively trying to be part of pro cycling or have a role in it, which is more along the lines of what I meant. Compare to Lance and his attempts to stay relevant with his podcast or even LeMond doing bits and pieces for Eurosport or whoever. When Indurain left, that was it.
Ah, now I understand what you were saying.
 
I read that Indurain had Bronchitis. Are there reasons to doubt this story?
Of course he also lost three minutes because he did not eat properly at the stage to Les Arcs. Even the 1995 version of Indurain would have problems to win the Tour after this time loss.
 
I think Miggy should be VERRRRRYYYYYY lucky he's somehow escaped any EPO investigations, as pretty much everyone knows he was doing something during those 5 wins.

Granted, Have no proof, but I seem to recall someone well known to these boards, stating some ridiculous" I've been tested 856 times & never 1 positive" info, in duping millions of his disciples/sheep into believing he was "the cleans" too & how'd that work out?

Oh wait, "they all doped", right? No actually, no "they all" didn't.

But in regards to Miggy, like I said, he's VERY lucky they're leaving him alone, so he's able to fly under the radar.
Let's define "they all doped". All GT winners doped. Did all racers dope, probably not, but most did. So if 'most' makes you feel better than 'all', fair enough.
 
Let's define "they all doped". All GT winners doped. Did all racers dope, probably not, but most did. So if 'most' makes you feel better than 'all', fair enough.
Yeah...and just about most of the top-10 finishers in LA's dynasty were doped:


"More importantly for Lance Armstrong, during the 7-year window when he won every Tour de France (1999-2005), 87% of the top-10 finishers (61 of 70) were confirmed dopers or suspected of doping."

87% percent! That's why I call the Tour the Tour de Dope. :D
 
Reactions: 86TDFWinner
Miguel Indurain was at least 15 or so pounds heavier than Bjarne Riis. And given the fact that they are approximately the same height, Indurain would have to have put up way more watts just to keep up with him, let alone overtake him and win the '96 Tour, drugs or no drugs.
 
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Miguel Indurain was at least 15 or so pounds heavier than Bjarne Riis. And given the fact that they are approximately the same height, Indurain would have to have put up way more watts just to keep up with him, let alone overtake him and win the '95 Tour, drugs or no drugs.
You should check the fmkR chronologue...all the power in the world can't help when you lose huge time because you bonked. Recovery from that isn't necessarily instant. Unless you're Stephen Roche and spent a night in the hospital.
 
Reactions: 86TDFWinner
Miguel Indurain was at least 15 or so pounds heavier than Bjarne Riis. And given the fact that they are approximately the same height, Indurain would have to have put up way more watts just to keep up with him, let alone overtake him and win the '95 Tour, drugs or no drugs.
Indurain did put up way more watts than any other rival for his 5 wins - including '95. In 1996 something or a multiple of factors went wrong.
 
Reactions: 86TDFWinner
Let's define "they all doped". All GT winners doped. Did all racers dope, probably not, but most did. So if 'most' makes you feel better than 'all', fair enough.
LeMond didnt dope....do you have info that states otherwise?

Also, Please include any proof/evidence that Hinault doped as well? Something CREDIBLE, not something your dog told you.

Also, by "proof/evidence", I mean including: dates, times, dosages, Drs who administered said drugs, when, where? Please......Also any info stating that the UCI/WADA/USADA are all aware of eithers supposed doping & any bans or titles stripped from either as well.

You can PM it to me here if you'd like too.

But yeah, keep believing the "everyone doped" narrative.
 
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You should check the fmkR chronologue...all the power in the world can't help when you lose huge time because you bonked. Recovery from that isn't necessarily instant. Unless you're Stephen Roche and spent a night in the hospital.
Two things-if it was the bonk that first day he got dropped, it is inexcusable for a team and a rider with so much experience for it to occur. This is something that doesn't just "happen", not at that level and especially not to those involved. I feel it was the combination of other issues that caused him to lose time, bonking being just one of them.

Second, it doesn't explain why he never recovered. He finished outside the top 10 and was never the same rider ever again.

Too much importance is put on his bonking in the overall scheme of things. That was just one moment in a Tour full of moments that foreshadowed his eventual downfall as a Tour champion. To me, more important was that he entered the Tour overweight in comparison to his main rivals (Riis and Ullrich) and could not answer the likes of Virenque and LeBlanc in the mountains, riders that he had no trouble neutralizing in previous Tours.
 
LeMond didnt dope....do you have info that states otherwise?

Also, Please include any proof/evidence that Hinault doped as well? Something CREDIBLE, not something your dog told you.

Also, by "proof/evidence", I mean including: dates, times, dosages, Drs who administered said drugs, when, where? Please......Also any info stating that the UCI/WADA/USADA are all aware of eithers supposed doping & any bans or titles stripped from either as well.

You can PM it to me here if you'd like too.

But yeah, keep believing the "everyone doped" narrative.
Bernard Sainz is a link to Hinault
 
Second, it doesn't explain why he never recovered. He finished outside the top 10 and was never the same rider ever again.
There are two critical factors in 1996 that need to be considered. The first is the change within the team following the loss of Padilla. Indurain was still firing on all cylinders before the Tour - or atleast projected that appearance - but then it all went to hell in a handcart and suddenly he couldn't climb in France and he couldn't climb in Spain.

The other critical factor is one not much loved by Clinicians: Indurain's personal life had changed. The previous December he became a father. He also told the team he was no longer taking a two year contract but wanted just a one year deal.

You can look for doping excuses - the excess weight is down to cortisone abuse, some say - buy you also have to consider the changes in his personal and professional life. The motivation was fading, the team was flailing.

As has been stated multiple times now, no one factor cost Indurain the Tour, it was down to multiple factors.
 
Also, Please include any proof/evidence that Hinault doped as well? Something CREDIBLE, not something your dog told you.
People, please don't feed the troll. Nine months ago @86TDFWinner was demanding proof that Indurain doped yet is this week they're back to their previously held and often expressed position that Indurain clearly doped.

September last:
Also, Do you have any CREDIBLE/verifiable proof that Indurain doped? Same info for LeMond please.
Sunday last:
I think Miggy should be VERRRRRYYYYYY lucky he's somehow escaped any EPO investigations, as pretty much everyone knows he was doing something during those 5 wins.
This is clearly just trolling. Unless of course in the last nine months the poster has found "CREDIBLE/verifiable proof that Indurain doped" and is about to share that with us and isn't just attempting to derail yet another thread with a pointless defence of their 80s' heroes.
 

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