Industry trolls

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Anytime we mention a company by name it's almost a 100% guarantee that someone from the company being discussed on these forums is watching. So many that you don't know about either, even though I don't moderate anymore I still can see IP addresses, basically the whole industry has been through here sometimes using an alias sometimes not, but usually never posting just so they can see the profiles of people talking about them. And the ones that do post like the Cervelo fiasco from a while ago and HED more recently for some odd reason can't get their facts straight and end up making total fools of themselves if they do write something.

I understand the whole 'towing the company line' bs, but what is it about these people that give me the creeps? If they manage to muster up enough courage to come on here to stand by their product or explain themselves they almost always end up with foot in mouth disease. Hope someone from SRAM comes on here and explains why they still can't make a high end grouppo that people want to ride.

Are you an industry troll? Speak your mind, let yourselves be heard, but don't be an idiot!!!

 

[BroDeal]

There is a right way and a wrong way to represent a company. The right way is to stay above the fray and just provide factual information with, perhaps, gentle promotion. Numerous companies on various boards manage to do it.

Then you have the wrong way, and the best examples are at MTBR. There are some true fiascos there. One of the best was the notorious Jack from IBEX, who was not only the owner of the company but a thin-skinned lying d-bag with forum self-defense skills that were way below par. Because of an innocuous joke comment in a cafe-like forum, he went to war with the forum, which was the home of many of the site's longest term and most active members. For a long time he and his employees had been stealth spamming the site by pushing Ibex on noobs, so he was already living in a glass house. The regulars tore him apart. Members were banned, Jack was caught lying about having a hand in the banning, MTBR's owner was caught lying abut it, an entire forum was deleted, members then went off to form their own forum, and the whole thing left a bad taste in everyone's mouth. And IBEX, which seemed to have a business model based around using forums to market their bikes to entry level cyclists, went out of business. It was classic.

Then there was Tony Ellsworth...

Of course, another classic example is Frank Day, who has been banned pretty much everywhere but here.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Jesus! I think some of these companies also have a "no forum" policy. Probably for the better as they usually come off their hinges when someone disagrees with them. They're all used to yes men where they work, and the higher up they are on the totem pole the more you see the GOD complex.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I understand the whole 'towing the company line' bs, but what is it about these people that give me the creeps?

just so I understand, why should I care if there are industry trolls roaming the internet looking for, well, whatever they're looking for? Are you saying there are ppl on this forum talking smack about the companies they work for, and thereby are putting themselves and their jobs with that company at some risk? Maybe the SRAM thread would be a good example.

If the latter is the case and if there are UCI employees smack talking the UCI in the forum then there are prolly some here in trouble with Paddy. I KNOW he knows what goes on in these forums to some extent. He admitted so in an interview on the UCI website. Wish I had the link but it's prolly still there. That doesn't matter anyway cos this UCI bit is just a rabbit trail.

Back to the point... also, if that's the case then that could be useful knowledge.

 

[gregod]

Any time we mention a company by name it's almost a 100% guarantee that someone from the company being discussed on these forums it watching. So many that you don't know about either, even though I don't moderate anymore I still can see IP addresses, basically the whole industry has been through here sometimes using an alias sometimes not, but usually never posting just so they can see the profiles of people talking about them. And the ones that do post like the Cervelo fiasco from a while ago and HED more recently for some odd reason can't get their facts straight and end up making total fools of themselves if they do write something.

I understand the whole 'towing the company line' bs, but what is it about these people that give me the creeps? If they manage to muster up enough courage to come on here to stand by their product or explain themselves they almost always end up with foot in mouth disease. Hope someone from SRAM comes on here and explains why they still can't make a high end grouppo that people want to ride.

Are you an industry troll? Speak your mind, let yourselves be heard, but don't be an idiot!!!

very interesting thread idea. +1. it is an appropriate thread title given their past behavior. however, if you want to get industry people posting in here, certainly a less invidious title would be better, no?

 

[Martin318is]

I agree with GreGod. I would think we'd like to encourage representatives of copmanies, teams, sponsors, etc to join the discussions on this forum logging in with their real name/company. If they feel that the reception they will get is "get lost, you shill" then its us that misses out overall.

Yes there would be people from various companies that would come here and try to cynically sway opinions about their products, but they are going to do it anyway.

 

[gregod]

I agree with gregod. I would think we'd like to encourage representatives of copmanies, teams, sponsors, etc to join the discussions on this forum logging in with their real name/company. If they feel that the reception they will get is "get lost, you shill" then its us that misses out overall.

Yes there would be people from various companies that would come here and try to cynically sway opinions about their products, but they are going to do it anyway.

unfortunately, i think this is unavoidable. although i haven't read much of the crank length thread, what i have seen is frank day getting this treatment and maintaining a thick skin.

i think companies, teams, sponsors, etc. should take his example as a good way to engage passionate cycling fans. they most likely will not win over the many of the posters, but there are many more lurkers who would probably be swayed by reasoned discussion and engagement.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Last one I noticed is when I went on a rant about Lezyne floor pumps and many shops I visited this summer had 2-5 lined up ready to ship back for warranty. Somebody from the company (IP checked out), signed up as LEZYNE and poked around looking at every CN forum users profile including mine of course that had anything negative to say. At least get on here and speak your mind instead of lurking in the shadows. Pffft! Or admit that you've got work to do to make it right, get some useful feedback, and apologize to your customer base, which are on this forum and others.

I've never encountered so many people as in the bike industry that cannot handle constructive criticism. Part of the reason I stopped going to Interbike.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

very interesting thread idea. +1. it is an appropriate thread title given their past behavior. however, if you want to get industry people posting in here, certainly a less invidious title would be better, no?

If they were smart about reaching out to their customers, both shops and end users they would grow a pair and start engaging. The thread title is what it is, call 'em as I see 'em.

 

[Quixote]

just so I understand, why should I care if there are industry trolls roaming the internet looking for, well, whatever they're looking for?

Good question. The only concern I can see is, as RDV4ROUBAIX indicates, their forum status is cloaked...not one of product rep, but rather an unbiased member. This gives them the freedom to slam competitor's products as well as hype their own with impunity. The risk they take is stumbling upon a landmine of negative opinion or an informed member. The Cervello deal was before my time here, so I don't know about it. However, an open discussion with an announced rep of a product would be great to follow.
By the way...I am in no way affiliated with Bag Balm even though I happen to mention the product occasionally and I have reasons to endorse it...nuff said.

 

[gregod]

Last one I noticed is when I went on a rant about Lezyne floor pumps and many shops I visited this summer had 2-5 lined up ready to ship back for warranty. Somebody from the company (IP checked out), signed up as LEZYNE and poked around looking at every CN forum users profile including mine of course that had anything negative to say. At least get on here and speak your mind instead of lurking in the shadows. Pffft! Or admit that you've got work to do to make it right, get some useful feedback, and apologize to your customer base, which are on this forum and others.

I've never encountered so many people as in the bike industry that cannot handle constructive criticism. Part of the reason I stopped going to Interbike.

whoa! way creepy. i feel dirty just reading it. it is amazing that these people don't seem to understand how the internet works. i hope they take up your offer.

by the way, can you put up the link to the lezyne discussion? my LBS just started pushing their stuff.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

whoa! way creepy. i feel dirty just reading it. it is amazing that these people don't seem to understand how the internet works. i hope they take up your offer.

by the way, can you put up the link to the lezyne discussion? my LBS just started pushing their stuff.

Can't be bothered to search the forum for the threads, there was a couple, and they're deep down in the threads list. Basically it would be a great pump except for the notorious failing gauge, and for the money it's not even user serviceable. The rest of their stuff is great, floor pumps, no way, not until they redesign that gauge.

None of us were like 'shame on you Lezyne' or anything too critical, just observations really, then I noticed "LEZYNE" in my user profile of people who are checking you out, and on other users profiles that were part of the discussion. Creepy is right!

 

[Martin318is]

If they were smart about reaching out to their customers, both shops and end users they would grow a pair and start engaging. The thread title is what it is, call 'em as I see 'em.

I'd agree with that. Its very refreshing to see someone with the courage of Vaughters who comes on here and engages with people (without hiding who he is) knowing full well he will get dumped on by some people. I just wish that more would do it.

But those that do the hide and sneak thing - stuff 'em

 

[gregod]

RDV, maybe you should suggest to the powers-that-be to invite companies to create accounts here. they could pay a small fee to get their brand as their ID and "company representative" status (instead of merely "member").

this might not be feasible, i am just spitballing ideas. i think it is a really good idea to have the companies posting here, but i don't think they should be given a free platform to advertise.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

RDV, maybe you should suggest to the powers-that-be to invite companies to create accounts here. they could pay a small fee to get their brand as their ID and "company representative" status (instead of merely "member").

this might not be feasible, i am just spitballing ideas. i think it is a really good idea to have the companies posting here, but i don't think they should be given a free platform to advertise.

That's actually a pretty good idea, it would be more legit this way and bring the mid-level sales people who are usually trolling out into the light to answer questions and concerns their customers have. Maybe Martin318is could pass that along if I don't get to it, my mod days are pretty much over, and it's waaay past my bed time. Coming to the end of my mini vacation too, 14hr drive back to Denver on Saturday. [sigh]

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Last one I noticed is when I went on a rant about Lezyne floor pumps and many shops I visited this summer had 2-5 lined up ready to ship back for warranty. Somebody from the company (IP checked out), signed up as LEZYNE and poked around looking at every CN forum users profile including mine of course that had anything negative to say. At least get on here and speak your mind instead of lurking in the shadows. Pffft! Or admit that you've got work to do to make it right, get some useful feedback, and apologize to your customer base, which are on this forum and others.

I've never encountered so many people as in the bike industry that cannot handle constructive criticism. Part of the reason I stopped going to Interbike.

Now I understand where you are coming from. Whether it's creepy or not depends on what the motives of the corporate trolls are. If it's just in healthy interest to find out what ppl don't like about their products and try to improve on them, then I'm okay with that. We as forum users can use that to our advantage. And as their corporate boss I would not be opposed to that tactic. But, as I say, creepy depends on what kind of bucaroo comes on here. You get the unsavory sort looking for dirt for some unhealthy reason, then I call that being a big "L" and if I was their corporate boss I'd have words with them, of the one-sided kind, for lots of reasons... one being "you're wasting company time to do what?".

This topic is all part of a larger one, that being the amount of internet information that is available and what ppl are willing to, or capable of, doing with it. For example, it's pretty common knowledge now that some companies use things like ppl's facebook pages as part of their employee application evaluation process to see what kind of person they are evaluating and to determine if they would be a good hire.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Anytime we mention a company by name it's almost a 100% guarantee that someone from the company being discussed on these forums is watching. So many that you don't know about either, even though I don't moderate anymore I still can see IP addresses, basically the whole industry has been through here sometimes using an alias sometimes not, but usually never posting just so they can see the profiles of people talking about them. And the ones that do post like the Cervelo fiasco from a while ago and HED more recently for some odd reason can't get their facts straight and end up making total fools of themselves if they do write something.

I understand the whole 'towing the company line' bs, but what is it about these people that give me the creeps? If they manage to muster up enough courage to come on here to stand by their product or explain themselves they almost always end up with foot in mouth disease. Hope someone from SRAM comes on here and explains why they still can't make a high end grouppo that people want to ride.

Are you an industry troll? Speak your mind, let yourselves be heard, but don't be an idiot!!!

I'd rather get yelled at by the 'big boy' at sram over the phone, which I did, when I made the mistake of calling 'RED' chains and cogsets, 'RED'...and junque.

Sure did make me want to rush out and buy a bunch of sram too(no, it didn't).

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Good question. The only concern I can see is, as RDV4ROUBAIX indicates, their forum status is cloaked...not one of product rep, but rather an unbiased member. This gives them the freedom to slam competitor's products as well as hype their own with impunity. The risk they take is stumbling upon a landmine of negative opinion or an informed member. The Cervello deal was before my time here, so I don't know about it. However, an open discussion with an announced rep of a product would be great to follow.
By the way...I am in no way affiliated with Bag Balm even though I happen to mention the product occasionally and I have reasons to endorse it...nuff said.

Dr Naylor is better stuff. Less lanolin, less greasy, oil of clove, so it smells better.

 

[Martin318is]

That's actually a pretty good idea, it would be more legit this way and bring the mid-level sales people who are usually trolling out into the light to answer questions and concerns their customers have. Maybe Martin318is could pass that along if I don't get to it, my mod days are pretty much over, and it's waaay past my bed time. Coming to the end of my mini vacation too, 14hr drive back to Denver on Saturday. [sigh]

will do....

 

[Boeing]

I've never encountered so many people as in the bike industry that cannot handle constructive criticism.

I have often wondered the same thing. But within the industry exactly who are you referring to? Employees, Reps, Shop Owners. Executives? You remarks are a broad blanket and a bit unfair. Perhaps narrow it down a bit

I think it has a lot to do with the vibe(s). Living the life in the industry you love etc. Reading into it a bit my experience it is mainly the main stream employee. DudeBra yo guy or gal.

I find however the people higher up the pay scale who's job it is to represent a company and interact with many companies to support and build OEM base actually become quite objective.

with that said, what is the difference between someone defending or preaching myopically and someone telling everyone how crappy a product is?

 

[oldborn]

RDV4ROUBAIX your days here are over? Can I say something to you, like how... you are without hard feelings.
I am so busted, I am Assos troll And Mr. Boeing is Rafa troll or Shrek, I forgot it

 

[Boeing]

RDV4ROUBAIX your days here are over? Can I say something to you, like how... you are without hard feelings.
I am so busted, I am Assos troll And Mr. Boeing is Rafa troll or Shrek, I forgot it

for the record I have no troll names and chose to make my remarks on this one and only account and as you know it puts me on many a list

I did start and account years ago called 'Neil and Bob" for the obvious reasons but I never had the gand to to use it

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I have often wondered the same thing. But within the industry exactly who are you referring to? Employees, Reps, Shop Owners. Executives? You remarks are a broad blanket and a bit unfair. Perhaps narrow it down a bit

Sales reps mostly. I know a lot of reps, used to be one, not my cup 'o tea, but at least I had lines that I used and believed in. Some of the ones at Interbike over the years have been pretty funny, hired professional spokespeople that get spray on tans masked off in all the right places to look like they ride, not kidding, it's been done for many years. Interbike isn't what it once was, a place to get business rolling, now it's turned into a party for shop customers, waiting in line to talk to someone because people who shouldn't be there are taking up all the time.

I think it has a lot to do with the vibe(s). Living the life in the industry you love etc. Reading into it a bit my experience it is mainly the main stream employee. DudeBra yo guy or gal.

I find however the people higher up the pay scale who's job it is to represent a company and interact with many companies to support and build OEM base actually become quite objective.

with that said, what is the difference between someone defending or preaching myopically and someone telling everyone how crappy a product is?

Big difference. I'd much rather listen to someone who a had a clear and concise opinion about a crappy product they have experience with, rather than a person making subjective arguments and ignoring facts.

Engineers are the best to talk to when the marketing department isn't around.

 

[BroDeal]

Sales reps mostly. I know a lot of reps, used to be one, not my cup 'o tea, but at least I had lines that I used and believed in. Some of the ones at Interbike over the years have been pretty funny, hired professional spokespeople that get spray on tans masked off in all the right places to look like they ride, not kidding, it's been done for many years.

Oh, no way. That is hilarious.

 

[marathon marke]

Dr Naylor is better stuff. Less lanolin, less greasy, oil of clove, so it smells better.

I'll have to try that. Bag Balm never seems to wash completely out of the chamois/padding.