Industry trolls

[Quixote]

Dr Naylor is better stuff. Less lanolin, less greasy, oil of clove, so it smells better.

This is a case in point. Had I been a rep for Bag Balm and thought that dropping the product name in the forum would boost my product...I would have had the whole deal backfire with Bustedknuckle's post. So, I kind of think the industry trolls are not as creepy as they are stupid. You just can't count on these members to roll over and gush about a product unless they really like it. Chances are greater that someone on the site is going to spoil the party with personal info about your product's shortcomings.
BUT NOW...how do we know that Bustedknuckle and Dr. Naylor are not one and the same? Their posts both have a pleasing oil of cloves scent.

 

[Notso Swift]

My wife works for a company, nothing to do with bikes or any "consumer product" and she has marketing under her and they have a full time person who works on tracking "social internet"
Forums, Twits, Facebook whatever the kids are into.
High profit consumer goods, you think this wouldn't be the norm, some are just a bit more blatant, want to buy a Battagin... Pete Subs?

 

[oldborn]

My wife works for a company, nothing to do with bikes or any "consumer product" and she has marketing under her and they have a full time person who works on tracking "social internet"
Forums, Twits, Facebook whatever the kids are into.
High profit consumer goods, you think this wouldn't be the norm, some are just a bit more blatant, want to buy a Battagin... Pete Subs?

That Pete Subs was to obvious

 

[Race Radio]

Trek, Oakley, and others have used this company to manage their image on line
http://www.bazaarvoice.com/ it is a common tactic developed in the political world

They do similar work for lance

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=420041&postcount=1

 

[Race Radio]

It is only a matter of time before somebody says these guys suck

http://road.cc/content/news/46587-v...ct-wins-margarita-first-london-school-fashion

 

[bc_hills]

It is only a matter of time before somebody says these guys suck

http://road.cc/content/news/46587-v...ct-wins-margarita-first-london-school-fashion

They Suck.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I don't think getting manufacturer's reps in the forum is such a good idea.

Simply because in most cases the participation is one-way, one-message, "Our product is great." Something like the Serotta thread where the situation was laid out as clearly as possible would be the rare exception.

Long ago, when another American brand that once-upon-a-time actually manufactured bikes (Titus) was being bought to relabel OEM stuff, one of the take-over company trolls came on and wouldn't quit trying to minimize the fact they were a reseller. The rhetoric was cheap and easily debunked and it took too long for the member-rep to just give up. All in all, bad quality.

 

[BroDeal]

I don't think getting manufacturer's reps in the forum is such a good idea.

Simply because in most cases the participation is one-way, one-message, "Our product is great." Something like the Serotta thread where the situation was laid out as clearly as possible would be the rare exception.

Long ago, when another American brand that once-upon-a-time actually manufactured bikes was being bought to relabel OEM stuff, one of the take-over company trolls came on and wouldn't quit trying to minimize the fact they were a reseller. The rhetoric was cheap and easily debunked and it took too long for the member to just give up. All in all, bad quality.

The best example of a PR disaster is Chumba on MTBR. Alan Kang, who runs the company, has spent about two years getting in fights with various posters. He badmouths other companies' bikes. He was caught using a Photoshopped pic to attack the weld quality of Intense. He has been caught lying numerous times. He stole a custom made bike a member made for his daughter. His antics have created a bunch of enemies who take every opportunity to remind people of the things that he has done.

On the other hand Richard Sachs is all over the web and, if you can understand his cryptic posts, supports his company well.

 

[Boeing]

Red Alert Red alert. Industry Troll in the Serotta thread.

 

[cawright1375]

I believe I encountered a Trek Troll on the Cervelo forums recently. A question was posted about the differences that one would notice going from a Soloist to the S5. I felt I could contribute, not because I'd own a soloist, but because I had a 2006 Madone 5.2 until this past July and going from that to the S5 I noticed a lot of differences. Well this Trek fanboy attacked my response, and it was their use of the phrase:

"the 6 series is a helluva bike..."

That got me thinking they were a troll. I described how different (in a good way) the S5 was to the Madone, which as it was 6 years old I felt would perhaps apply to the OPs original question. When asked if the Troll was an employee of Trek because they were really going out of the way to defend Trek, when no defense was neccessary, they did not respond.

And out of curiosity and in no way am I trying to hijack the thread, what was the Cervelo thing recently?

 

[Parera]

And out of curiosity and in no way am I trying to hijack the thread, what was the Cervelo thing recently?

Killing online sales? Removing the S1 from their lineup? Tall headtubes infilitrating their entire bike lineup? Defective bottom bracket shells? Poor paint jobs?

I don't know, people complained about them for a lot of reasons recently. I was treated terribly by a rep on a demo, and never really got an apology from the rep (though Gerard Vroomen did send me a message personally saying sorry for the inconvenience). Left me sour towards their brand,but I don't think they make poor bikes by any stretch. The old R3 and S1/soloist are fine race bikes.

 

[Boeing]

The best example of a PR disaster is Chumba on MTBR. Alan Kang, who runs the company, has spent about two years getting in fights with various posters. He badmouths other companies' bikes. He was caught using a Photoshopped pic to attack the weld quality of Intense. He has been caught lying numerous times. He stole a custom made bike a member made for his daughter. His antics have created a bunch of enemies who take every opportunity to remind people of the things that he has done.

interesting.

the biggest clowns on there now are the canfleld brothers

 

[maldrien]

I am a long time reader but it's the first time I am posting something here. I am in charge of the social medias for a bike company. I am not going to state which one here since I am speaking for myself and this is my personal account.

If Cycling News was to add specific accounts for company reps it could change the way companies interact with forum's users. You would probably have less reps creeping with anonymous accounts. For my part, I know that you accomplish nothing by bashing other company's product. I would gladly answer any questions about our products to the best of my knowledge and in an objective way.

Cycling News please create special kind of account for company reps so I could spend more time here to get to know you all.

Cheers
Maldrien

 

[DirtyWorks]

I am a long time reader but it's the first time I am posting something here. I am in charge of the social medias for a bike company. I am not going to state which one here since I am speaking for myself and this is my personal account.

If Cycling News was to add specific accounts for company reps it could change the way companies interact with forum's users. You would probably have less reps creeping with anonymous accounts. For my part, I know that you accomplish nothing by bashing other company's product. I would gladly answer any questions about our products to the best of my knowledge and in an objective way.

Cycling News please create special kind of account for company reps so I could spend more time here to get to know you all.

Cheers
Maldrien

No special tag needed.

I think as long as you come straight out and preface your comments with "I work for XYZ and this is XYZ's view." Some reps would have to put up with an enormous amount of complaints. Other reps might get off a little easier.

Some of the 2011/12 prices paid for cycling equipment and their total failure or shady to non-existent warranty service tend to inspire strong opinions. Know that you will be called on the cornucopia of verbal Jiu Jitsu that passes for Marketing. Heaven forbid there be an honest accounting of a product.

 

[JayKosta]

There are several things that would be expected of a 'company rep' on internet forums, and it is critical that the other various parts of the company all understand and support the rep's function.
For example, the rep should make certain that he can get reliable and fairly detailed assistance from: engineers, manufacturing, marketing, guarantee claims, shop support, and probably others.

The rep SHOULD expect to be drawn into unpleasant conversations about the companies products & policies, and would hopefully be be able to resolve some of them in a manner that satisfies the customer.

Also, there would probably be a lot of time spent that might not seem to be of direct economic benefit to the company - it would probably have to be accounted-for as part of 'advertising'.

If the intention is to just use the rep for product marketing, that would probably get a poor reception ....

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

 

[ElChingon]

There are several things that would be expected of a 'company rep' on internet forums, and it is critical that the other various parts of the company all understand and support the rep's function.
For example, the rep should make certain that he can get reliable and fairly detailed assistance from: engineers, manufacturing, marketing, guarantee claims, shop support, and probably others.

The rep SHOULD expect to be drawn into unpleasant conversations about the companies products & policies, and would hopefully be be able to resolve some of them in a manner that satisfies the customer.

Also, there would probably be a lot of time spent that might not seem to be of direct economic benefit to the company - it would probably have to be accounted-for as part of 'advertising'.

If the intention is to just use the rep for product marketing, that would probably get a poor reception ....

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

Kill Joy! I want some rookie marketing guys on here, would be loads of fun

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I am a long time reader but it's the first time I am posting something here. I am in charge of the social medias for a bike company. I am not going to state which one here since I am speaking for myself and this is my personal account.

If Cycling News was to add specific accounts for company reps it could change the way companies interact with forum's users. You would probably have less reps creeping with anonymous accounts. For my part, I know that you accomplish nothing by bashing other company's product. I would gladly answer any questions about our products to the best of my knowledge and in an objective way.

Cycling News please create special kind of account for company reps so I could spend more time here to get to know you all.

Cheers
Maldrien

Free advertising is the best kind, 'special account' for industry reps.

Of COURSE there are industry people here and on other forums, incognito, listening to the 'guy on the street'. They would be crazy not to. Some will just get ****ed, and spit up their company koolaide but the smart ones will take the comments to heart, the serious ones, investigate to see if there is something to what was said.

It is obvious some don't care what their customers think, as evidenced by the junk they make and try to sell. BUT some really do GAS.

-bike shop owner

 

[Parera]

I was a **** to a SRAM guy the other day. He wasn't even that high up in the company, but I asked "are the road groups going to have a major redesign any time soon?" and he gave me a look like I had shot his dog. I basically expressed to him what I thought was poor about their group and he just towed the company line.

I'm not against SRAM being a player in the road market, they just need to spend more money on R&D and less on guys like this who just drive around to local races and regurgitate ad copy.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I was a **** to a SRAM guy the other day. He wasn't even that high up in the company, but I asked "are the road groups going to have a major redesign any time soon?" and he gave me a look like I had shot his dog. I basically expressed to him what I thought was poor about their group and he just towed the company line.

I'm not against SRAM being a player in the road market, they just need to spend more money on R&D and less on guys like this who just drive around to local races and regurgitate ad copy.

I had a sram outside guy come in and I probably said the same sort of things you did about sram. He left thinking I was the clueless one, of course. They should be listening unless they want to be Suntour of the 21st century. You can throw $ at it only for so long.

 

[Notso Swift]

I had a sram outside guy come in and I probably said the same sort of things you did about sram. He left thinking I was the clueless one, of course. They should be listening unless they want to be Suntour of the 21st century. You can throw $ at it only for so long.

That is unfair, Suntour had excellent product with Superbe and Superbe Pro, they just didn't change with the times and when they did the F'd it

Some others don't have the product to start with...

 

[Bustedknuckle]

That is unfair, Suntour had excellent product with Superbe and Superbe Pro, they just didn't change with the times and when they did the F'd it

Some others don't have the product to start with...

The operative word there is 'had'. Lots of Suntour stuff of that era was pretty crappy with the exception of Superbe and Superbe Pro.

 

[hiero2]

Just ran across this thread. Necro-thread, but imo worthy of rebirth, always will be topical!

unfortunately, i think this is unavoidable. although i haven't read much of the crank length thread, what i have seen is frank day getting this treatment and maintaining a thick skin.
> . . .

He sure does - keep a thick skin, I mean. SO thick, afaics, that it covers his ears and eyes! Seriously, though, a really thick skin leaves you disregarding potentially valid input.

On the other hand, he is also a good example of the type of industry rep frequently characterized in this very thread - WHOLLY believes in his own product - to the exclusion of anything else. Which, if your business is to stay in business, does have a survival-factor value.

. . . the higher up they are on the totem pole the more you see the GOD complex.

True in every industry I've ever encountered. To see their side, tho, they get tons of people who want to throw their thoughts at them, garbage and all - so many they have to trim somewhere, and inevitably some valid is lost by cutting all the invalid.

. . .I've never encountered so many people as in the bike industry that cannot handle constructive criticism. Part of the reason I stopped going to Interbike.

Kinda sad, isn't it? But so much of cycling "science" is based on opinion, yes? Really - just like the chain lube threads I've been part of lately. I don't know of ANY real scientific studies of the topic prior to this guy doing the lab testing in this past year - what's his handle? Fast Facts or something? It's been in the news. Or like tires - nobody had done before, or to my knowledge, has done since, what Jobst Brandt did with the testing of various brands. We sure could use some of that again! Even folks with REALLY far-out products - like the right-angle crank business - have some sort of "scientific" justification, and some people, seemingly intelligent, who will say it makes sense.

That is unfair, Suntour had excellent product with Superbe and Superbe Pro, they just didn't change with the times and when they did the F'd it

Some others don't have the product to start with...

The operative word there is 'had'. Lots of Suntour stuff of that era was pretty crappy with the exception of Superbe and Superbe Pro.

Yeah, but you gotta admit, most of the stuff of that era, of every brand, was pretty crappy. Campy had issues, Modolo, Shimano, they all had less than good products on offer. Campy was generally a little LESS crappy - but remember the original Chorus? I know you do!

Shimano had some better timing, but who actually premiered click-shifting?

I would have said that, except for Dura-Ace, the two brands were pretty equal in having good designs and crappy ones. I thought a major part of what happened to Suntour was Shimano utilizing "nasty" business tactics to drive them out of biz. Not illegal stuff, but not nice stuff. I have no proof, going on memories of events and old conversations.

 

[BroDeal]

I thought a major part of what happened to Suntour was Shimano utilizing "nasty" business tactics to drive them out of biz. Not illegal stuff, but not nice stuff. I have no proof, going on memories of events and old conversations.

Somewhere on the web is someone's thesis or dissertation on the fall of Suntour. It details the business mistakes that were made and is quite interesting. I don't have a link handy.

 

[winkybiker]

I was a **** to a SRAM guy the other day. He wasn't even that high up in the company, but I asked "are the road groups going to have a major redesign any time soon?" and he gave me a look like I had shot his dog. I basically expressed to him what I thought was poor about their group and he just toed the company line.

I'm not against SRAM being a player in the road market, they just need to spend more money on R&D and less on guys like this who just drive around to local races and regurgitate ad copy.

I agree. My view is that they have spent far too much on marketing (including sponsoring a proportion of pro-teams that far outweighed their market share) and not enough on R&D. They have pulled back from that, at least. They have had a few innovative concepts, but they just seem to fall short in execution.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Just ran across this thread. Necro-thread, but imo worthy of rebirth, always will be topical!

Wow, almost two years since we've seen this one! You can say you were investigating me, I don't mind at all. Otherwise this thread would have never been bumped.

But so much of cycling "science" is based on opinion..

No, I'd say it's trend driven. The science is there, how sound it is varies from brand to brand.