Interesting piece on Livestrong

[Semper Fidelis]

There you go! I envision an entire army of little blue-eyed Texans, armed with automatic weapons, ready to take up the fight against cancer...

Where's the militant Lance Army? Not just a golden bracelet, but something that'll get the job done!

Call in the fast-movers and bring on the napalm...

I know you guys are just joking around but I would not have went that far.
Just my opinion. After all is said and done it appears that the LAF fall short on many counts.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I know you guys are just joking around but I would not have went that far.
Just my opinion. After all is said and done it appears that the LAF fall short on many counts.

Thanks for (sort of) bringing it back on topic.

I can only speak for myself, but without adult supervision I know I'm going to go too far...

 

[miloman]

[/B]

I will be impressed if, and when, something really happens in this case and Floyd receives a settlement from his wb case and he pays everyone back and gives the rest to charity. Like him or not, Armstrong's charity has done more good in the world than Floyd's revelations ever will. Armstong is probably a jerk, and a doper, but what is Floyd?. . four words quickly come to mind: opportunistic, calculating, insincere, hypocritical.

It's funny, this all started with an off-the-cuff remark about Floyd Landis, his motives, his credibility and how the LAF has done more good in the world than any of Floyd’s endeavors. A simple comparison between the Floyd Fairness Fund and The Lance Armstrong Foundation renders a clear winner. You can argue all day whether or not they are wise stewards of their funds; and I can see, and tend to agree with most of the points made here that some things look questionable. However, the fact remains there are people who have been served and aided by the LAF. Answer me this: Besides Floyd and a bunch of lawyer, who benefited from the Floyd Fairness Fund? And by filing a whistle blower law suit, who ultimately stands to benefit from this latest endeavor.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

It's funny, this all started with an off-the-cuff remark about Floyd Landis, his motives, his credibility and how the LAF has done more good in the world than any of Floyd’s endeavors. A simple comparison between the Floyd Fairness Fund and The Lance Armstrong Foundation renders a clear winner. You can argue all day whether or not they are wise stewards of their funds; and I can see, and tend to agree with most of the points made here that some things look questionable. However, the fact remains there are people who have been served and aided by the LAF. Answer me this: Besides Floyd and a bunch of lawyer, who benefited from the Floyd Fairness Fund? And by filing a whistle blower law suit, who ultimately stands to benefit from this latest endeavor.

Do you mean funny, haha; or funny, strange...

You know what's funny? I thought this was cycling forum. Now THAT'S funny...

 

[kurtinsc]

Do you mean funny, haha; or funny, strange...

You know what's funny? I thought this was cycling forum. Now THAT'S funny...

No, it's a doping forum that occasionally drifts to topics like FBI investigations, international law, character assassination, and VERY rarely... cycling.

Of course the cycling references usually include tying people to terrorists or hitler. But that's just how the internet works in general. In the end... everyone is somehow like hitler. Godwins law.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

No, it's a doping forum that occasionally drifts to topics like FBI investigations, international law, character assassination, and VERY rarely... cycling.

Of course the cycling references usually include tying people to terrorists or hitler. But that's just how the internet works in general. In the end... everyone is somehow like hitler. Godwins law.

Doping forum, cycling forum... I'm failing to see the difference (how's that for a sad comment).

I might add that I'm nothing like Hitler. Now, Mr. Hilter... there's a guy I can stand behind...

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It's funny, this all started with an off-the-cuff remark about Floyd Landis, his motives, his credibility and how the LAF has done more good in the world than any of Floyd’s endeavors. A simple comparison between the Floyd Fairness Fund and The Lance Armstrong Foundation renders a clear winner. You can argue all day whether or not they are wise stewards of their funds; and I can see, and tend to agree with most of the points made here that some things look questionable. However, the fact remains there are people who have been served and aided by the LAF. Answer me this: Besides Floyd and a bunch of lawyer, who benefited from the Floyd Fairness Fund? And by filing a whistle blower law suit, who ultimately stands to benefit from this latest endeavor.

Nice attempt at a diversion - but this is the part of your original post:

Like him or not, Armstrong's charity has done more good in the world than Floyd's revelations ever will.

........ yet you cannot articulate what that good is nor the excessive expenditure of the LAF - and then there is the 'for-profit' site and what that actually does.

The only part of your post worth mentioning is the highlighted above:
There is a clear winner - but its not the LAF, or Livestrong, or the Cancer community - it is Lance Armstrong.

 

[AussieGoddess]

Actually, if you go to the "get one on one support" section, you'll see some very useful stuff they spend money on. They have a clinical trial search, and the "livestrong guidebook" they provide to those diagnosed with cancer proved useful to some people I knew as well.

But it seems like that stuff might be getting pressed to the side now... it's nowhere near as prominent on the site as I remember. They also stopped funding cancer research last year or the year before (they used to put a portion of their revenue to research).

All in all... disappointing. I DO think there is a need to provide information and support for those who are going through the process of dealing with cancer. There are a lot of issues with the US healthcare system that an organization like the LAF was needed to address. But apparently they are moving away from that, which is sad.

they do some good things .... but I do am disappointed with the detail when I have looked deeper. I did honestly think they were doing more and doing better. Its a sad realisation.

It's funny, this all started with an off-the-cuff remark about Floyd Landis, his motives, his credibility and how the LAF has done more good in the world than any of Floyd’s endeavors. A simple comparison between the Floyd Fairness Fund and The Lance Armstrong Foundation renders a clear winner. You can argue all day whether or not they are wise stewards of their funds; and I can see, and tend to agree with most of the points made here that some things look questionable. However, the fact remains there are people who have been served and aided by the LAF. Answer me this: Besides Floyd and a bunch of lawyer, who benefited from the Floyd Fairness Fund? And by filing a whistle blower law suit, who ultimately stands to benefit from this latest endeavor.

In truth Miloman, I actually think Lance's actions are more damaging.

People donating to the Floyd Fairness Fund donated knowing that the funds were going to defend Floyd. Guilty or innocent - the money went where he said it was going.

People donating to Livestrong are misled and people end up being disillusioned with charities world wide. Livestrong is NOT spending its own money, or Lance's money - they are spending money DONATED by people. Yes - its good that he has raised some money .... but raising money is just a way of saying he has collected money from other people. It didnt just appear out of nowhere, people gave it to Livestrong to be spent on supporting cancer survivors. Not to be spent on promoting Lance Armstrong.

At the end of the day, I ask the question - Is Lance promoting Livestrong - or is Livestrong promoting Lance?

 

[miloman]

they do some good things .... but I do am disappointed with the detail when I have looked deeper. I did honestly think they were doing more and doing better. Its a sad realisation.




In truth Miloman, I actually think Lance's actions are more damaging.

People donating to the Floyd Fairness Fund donated knowing that the funds were going to defend Floyd. Guilty or innocent - the money went where he said it was going.People donating to Livestrong are misled and people end up being disillusioned with charities world wide. Livestrong is NOT spending its own money, or Lance's money - they are spending money DONATED by people. Yes - its good that he has raised some money .... but raising money is just a way of saying he has collected money from other people. It didnt just appear out of nowhere, people gave it to Livestrong to be spent on supporting cancer survivors. Not to be spent on promoting Lance Armstrong.

At the end of the day, I ask the question - Is Lance promoting Livestrong - or is Livestrong promoting Lance?

I believe you are mistaken. They donated under the guise that Floyd was INNOCENT and was being unfairly treated by cycling’s governing body, the French laboratory and WADA. And how do you know the money went where it was supposed to? I have never seen any accounting for the money he raised. As far as I know, we only have his word that it was spent where it was supposed to. And as we all know, Floyd’s word is golden!

 

[Ferminal]

What does Flandis have to do with a cancer charity..?

I guess Floyd does love cancer.

 

[Polish]

There is a clear winner - but its not the LAF, or Livestrong, or the Cancer community - it is Lance Armstrong.

Gosh, a bit dramatic yikes

But come on.

Livestrong has what...70 -80 employees?
Some very passionate people there. PLENTY of winners.
And that is just a tip of an iceberg.

If you arrive home from the doctor stunned with cancer news, google "Lance Armstrong Cancer" and log onto livestrong.org. It is right there.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I believe you are mistaken. They donated under the guise that Floyd was INNOCENT and was being unfairly treated by cycling’s governing body, the French laboratory and WADA. And how do you know the money went where it was supposed to? I have never seen any accounting for the money he raised. As far as I know, we only have his word that it was spent where it was supposed to. And as we all know, Floyd’s word is golden!

You really should do some research.

In this ESPN piece:
• Landis did not have the authority to make withdrawals or sign checks.
• The fund was vetted by an accounting firm and that all of the money went to legal fees.
• The figure that Landis mentioned is backed up by the person who did have control of the account, Michael Henson.
• The Floyd Fairness Fund was not set up as a non-profit organization.
• The largest contributor was Dr. Brent Kay, who still sticks by Floyd.
• ESPN spoke to some people who had contributed to the FFF, here are two comments:

Daniel Rosen who contributed about $1,000:

"By no means does he need to feel obligated to pay me back," he said. "I knew what I was getting into, and I knew there was a possibility that this was an illusion."

An anonymous person within cycling who made a large donation:

"He probably deserved to lose, and it would have been better if he'd confessed, but I don't harbor any resentment about having given him money."

Also - you might not have much faith in Landis word, but it is good enough for the Feds to include Armstrong & USPS in their investigation.
I assume that if Armstrong is found guilty that you would want him to repay everyone he defrauded and the remainder of his earning to go to a (reputable ) charity?

 

[miloman]

You really should do some research.

In this ESPN piece:
• Landis did not have the authority to make withdrawals or sign checks.
• The fund was vetted by an accounting firm and that all of the money went to legal fees.• The figure that Landis mentioned is backed up by the person who did have control of the account, Michael Henson.• The Floyd Fairness Fund was not set up as a non-profit organization.
• The largest contributor was Dr. Brent Kay, who still sticks by Floyd.
• ESPN spoke to some people who had contributed to the FFF, here are two comments:

Daniel Rosen who contributed about $1,000:


An anonymous person within cycling who made a large donation:


Also - you might not have much faith in Landis word, but it is good enough for the Feds to include Armstrong & USPS in their investigation.
I assume that if Armstrong is found guilty that you would want him to repay everyone he defrauded and the remainder of his earning to go to a (reputable ) charity?

How do you know there isn't some "travel expenses," “hotels,” “awareness campaigns” and "jet fuel" in there somewhere? Did they ever post an audited report detailing how the money was spent or are we just taking their word for it? And who is this Michael Henson? Have you scrutinized him to the same degree you did Doug Ulman and other LAF officers? And so you think citing a couple of people who gave to the fund who don't want their money back speaks for all concerned? And since when have the Feds cared about whom to climb into bed with? For heaven sakes, you got some of the most notorious mafia hit men living on the beach under assumed names, all on the tax payer's dime. And finally, if Armstrong's charity is found to have committed fraud, then yes, he/they need to pay. But as far as I know, he never raised money for any legal defense fund through his charity while proclaiming his innocence.

 

[Polish]

I assume that if Armstrong is found guilty that you would want him to repay everyone he defrauded and the remainder of his earning to go to a (reputable ) charity?

Who exactly did Lance defraud again?

Maybe pay back the Charity Riders for the percentage of their livestrong donations that went to jetfuel? Do you think the charity riders really really care that much? Really?

Heck, they were glad when Lance showed up at the charity ride lol.

Lance was at the local charity ride here a couple years back and led the ride out of town. 2 guys ran along the course shouting "cheater cheater' and threw water balloons at the riders lol again. Losers. Not winners.

 

[Hugh Januss]

How do you know there isn't some "travel expenses," “hotels,” “awareness campaigns” and "jet fuel" in there somewhere? Did they ever post an audited report detailing how the money was spent or are we just taking their word for it? And who is this Michael Henson? Have you scrutinized him to the same degree you did Doug Ulman and other LAF officers? And so you think citing a couple of people who gave to the fund who don't want their money back speaks for all concerned? And since when have the Feds cared about whom to climb into bed with? For heaven sakes, you got some of the most notorious mafia hit men living on the beach under assumed names, all on the tax payer's dime. And finally, if Armstrong's charity is found to have committed fraud, then yes, he/they need to pay. But as far as I know, he never raised money for any legal defense fund through his charity while proclaiming his innocence.

Armstrong has however used it as a cover for his own cheating doper activities.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

How do you know there isn't some "travel expenses," “hotels,” “awareness campaigns” and "jet fuel" in there somewhere? Did they ever post an audited report detailing how the money was spent or are we just taking their word for it? And who is this Michael Henson? Have you scrutinized him to the same degree you did Doug Ulman and other LAF officers? And so you think citing a couple of people who gave to the fund who don't want their money back speaks for all concerned? And since when have the Feds cared about whom to climb into bed with? For heaven sakes, you got some of the most notorious mafia hit men living on the beach under assumed names, all on the tax payer's dime. And finally, if Armstrong's charity is found to have committed fraud, then yes, he/they need to pay. But as far as I know, he never raised money for any legal defense fund through his charity while proclaiming his innocence.

Thanks for proving my point about your lack of research....... most of the questions you raised were addressed in the ESPN piece I linked.

LOL at your poor attempt to only have LA payback if his 'charity' is a fraud.
If it is highlighted that he used PEDs it will show that LA's whole career was a fraud - if he wasn't a successful athlete few would ever have heard about the LAF.
So should people who bought "Its Not About the Bike" get paid back also?

 

[miloman]

"Armstrong has however used it as a cover for his own cheating doper activities."


Do you have proof of this? I would like to see were this information came from. Can you provide a link or is this just your opinion? Unless you have proof of this, I think you should maybe tone it down a bit.

 

[Anonymous]

"Armstrong has however used it as a cover for his own cheating doper activities."


Do you have proof of this? I would like to see were this information came from. Can you provide a link or is this just your opinion? Unless you have proof of this, I think you should maybe tone it down a bit.

[edited by mod]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VfiXAaEQiY

He prostitutes cancer patients to talk about how wrong those people who accuse him of being a "doper" are. He prostitutes his foundation and cancer patients to suggest that he didn't dope. He is a disgusting piece of ****, and deserves prison time for the fraud he perpetrated. Suck it!

 

[Hugh Januss]

"Armstrong has however used it as a cover for his own cheating doper activities."


Do you have proof of this? I would like to see were this information came from. Can you provide a link or is this just your opinion? Unless you have proof of this, I think you should maybe tone it down a bit.

Can you provide links which show that anyone who donated to FFF felt any different than the two individuals that Dr Mas quoted?
I have never believed that PS actually pays people to come on this forum, in your case however I really hope that is what is happening. Because it is either that or you are the biggest tool in the world.

 

[Siriuscat]

So should people who bought "Its Not About the Bike" get paid back also?

Can I still claim if I threw the book in the bin??

Miloman; I've loved reading some of the garbage you've put in this thread over the last two or three days, really cheered me up on boring night shifts but your incessant rebuttals of fairly well established facts is showing you out to be more and more troll like as time passes.

To get a true scientific comparison you must compare like for like, FFF and Livestrong/LAF are NOT even vaguely comparable. You obvious love of Armstrong I suspect is clouding your judgement in this. Any charity that has the massive amounts of overheads that Livestrong/LAF continually shows needs shot but then again it's obvious it's no ordinary charity!!

Roll on his indictment!!

 

[miloman]

Thanks for proving my point about your lack of research....... most of the questions you raised were addressed in the ESPN piece I linked.LOL at your poor attempt to only have LA payback if his 'charity' is a fraud.
If it is highlighted that he used PEDs it will show that LA's whole career was a fraud - if he wasn't a successful athlete few would ever have heard about the LAF.
So should people who bought "Its Not About the Bike" get paid back also?

Really, which ones? Educate me. You don’t seem to take anything about Armstrong at face value, why did you here, with Floyd, with this and ESPN no less? Really? Could it be because it fits your particular view that everything Lance is everything BAD! Did you do the same fact checking you purport to do on anything Armstrong’s people say and do? Who are these people saying these things? Where is the report? I for one would like to see how Floyd’s money was spent and by whom. Don’t get me wrong, I am not a fan of Armstrong, but I think you need to hold anything regarding Floyd to the same standards. I will anxiously await the report!

 

[Anonymous]

Oh, the first question in my last post was rhetorical. You are both a ****ing moron and a troll. I know you aren't smart enough to pick up on subtle things like that, so I decided to spell it out for you.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Are you a complete ****ing moron, or just troll? Unless you have proof you are neither, maybe you should shut the **** up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VfiXAaEQiY

He prostitutes cancer patients to talk about how wrong those people who accuse him of being a "doper" are. He prostitutes his foundation and cancer patients to suggest that he didn't dope. He is a disgusting piece of ****, and deserves prison time for the fraud he perpetrated. Suck it!

Yo it's OK TFF I got this. Hey this is almost like the good old days last July,isn't it.

 

[BroDeal]

Are you a complete ****ing moron, or just troll? Unless you have proof you are neither, maybe you should shut the **** up?

His trolling technique looks suspiciously like BPC's.

My favorite part was that after acting like an expert on Armstrong's fraudulent charity, he was asked, since he was well informed about LA charity, if he could provide more information. At which point he came back this:

You are misinformed, I am not well informed about LAF and I don't know how your money is used. I would suggest that you go to their web site and see how they allocate their funds.

Just classic. Absolutely classic.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Really, which ones? Educate me. You don’t seem to take anything about Armstrong at face value, why did you here, with Floyd, with this and ESPN no less? Really? Could it be because it fits your particular view that everything Lance is everything BAD! Did you do the same fact checking you purport to do on anything Armstrong’s people say and do? Who are these people saying these things? Where is the report? I for one would like to see how Floyd’s money was spent and by whom. Don’t get me wrong, I am not a fan of Armstrong, but I think you need to hold anything regarding Floyd to the same standards. I will anxiously await the report!

Ahahahahahahahahhahha!