Interesting piece on Livestrong

[Barrus]

Why are you so hung up on the change of venue? France may have been a good idea at the time, but for whatever reason, it was changed. It could have been logistics, availability of suitable conference space or maybe LAF just wanted to stick it to the French, who knows. Ireland isn’t such a bad place, why not have it there? I don’t know if it is the case now, but several years ago, airfare from the US to Dublin was a lot cheaper than to Paris. There are lots of possibilities. Maybe they were trying to save money.

God dammit man, are you really that much of a troll or are you really that obtuse?

the original plan was in France, afterwards he decided to have it in Dublin, only after he was promised a significant amount of money from McQaucks brother to ride at the tour of Ireland. Why don't you adress that fact in what DrM said? Why don't you answer the questions posed to you

 

[miloman]

God dammit man, are you really that much of a troll or are you really that obtuse?

the original plan was in France, afterwards he decided to have it in Dublin, only after he was promised a significant amount of money from McQaucks brother to ride at the tour of Ireland. Why don't you adress that fact in what DrM said? Why don't you answer the questions posed to you

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't use profanity, and resort to name calling, it isn't necessary! Does anyone have proof of the "significant amount of money" supposedly paid to Lance or the LAF by these people? How much was it? Can anyone prove that this was the deciding factor in changing their plans? I would like to see proof of these allegations, before I am willing to buy into your's and Dr. M's theory.

 

[D-Queued]

... are you really that much of a troll or are you really that obtuse?

...

After the response to the question, I am going with c. Both.

Dave.

 

[BotanyBay]

God dammit man, are you really that much of a troll or are you really that obtuse?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Holy crap! Milo, I seriously hope you're getting paid for this.

I've followed this for the last three days, and either you're trying to be obtuse or you're getting paid.

Or perhaps you're a shut-in with nothing better to do than be a contrarian.

For your sake, I hope you're getting paid...

 

[Barrus]

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't use profanity, and resort to name calling, it isn't necessary! Does anyone have proof of the "significant amount of money" supposedly paid to Lance or the LAF by these people? How much was it? Can anyone prove that this was the deciding factor in changing their plans? I would like to see proof of these allegations, before I am willing to buy into your's and Dr. M's theory.

The kind doctor who has had more patience with you than I thought was humanly possible has provided you with ample material which you seem to ignore.

And what profanity did I use. God, if that's what you call profanity you would not survive a day around here.. Also it is not namecalling if it is true

Really Dr. M, you have more patience than Jesus, Ghandi and Buddha combined

And Dave, I think you are correct

 

[patricknd]

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't use profanity, and resort to name calling, it isn't necessary! Does anyone have proof of the "significant amount of money" supposedly paid to Lance or the LAF by these people? How much was it? Can anyone prove that this was the deciding factor in changing their plans? I would like to see proof of these allegations, before I am willing to buy into your's and Dr. M's theory.

and from an administrator..........

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Why are you so hung up on the change of venue? France may have been a good idea at the time, but for whatever reason, it was changed. It could have been logistics, availability of suitable conference space or maybe LAF just wanted to stick it to the French, who knows. Ireland isn’t such a bad place, why not have it there? I don’t know if it is the case now, but several years ago, airfare from the US to Dublin was a lot cheaper than to Paris. There are lots of possibilities. Maybe they were trying to save money.

Quite easy - it is because it shows the venue was selected for this 'Global Campaign' AFTER LA had agreed to participate in an event there for which he was receiving an appearance fee.

Are you seriously trying to say that France would not have been able to do the logistics or accommodate 300 - 500 people?? Yet Dublin which is a city of 1 million could?

 

[Barrus]

and from an administrator..........

Not everything I post is in official capacity, most people here seem to understand when I am acting in that capacity and when I am not. I have taken no action against him, nor would I, unless I have the express consent of the mod collective. That I do not like someone, or their manner of posting does not automatically assume that I would take such measures against him. I have problems with Milo his statements and his posting history and I will not keep that hidden. But this has not influenced the manner in which I perform my moderating duties

 

[BotanyBay]

 

[miloman]

Quite easy - it is because it shows the venue was selected for this 'Global Campaign' AFTER LA had agreed to participate in an event there for which he was receiving an appearance fee.

Are you seriously trying to say that France would not have been able to do the logistics or accommodate 300 - 500 people?? Yet Dublin which is a city of 1 million could?

I wouldn’t know can you say with certainty that France could? I am only saying, without proof either way, it is pure conjecture. There are numerous possibilities of which your explanation is but one. You may know a lot about this subject, but unless you are Lance Armstrong or work for LAF you can’t say for sure what the reason was, can you? And by the way, obviously Dublin could and they did!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

First... 100-trips doesn't equal 100-people. Second, I'm using round numbers to show how travel costs (even at business and economy class levels) can get quite high very quickly. I have no idea how many trips livestrong employees would have expensed for their "global cancer initiative" over the last 2 years. It might have been zero... it might have been 200. Who knows? I also have no idea if just airfare was reimbursed under that account, or if hotel expenses, food expenses and other incidentals that might be incurred were also put in the same bucket. Different companies account for those differently, but people being sent abroad on business (for a profit or non-profit) DO get them reimbursed by their company. My last conference (not including the cost of the conference itself) resulted in a nearly 2,000 dollar expense report for 3 days to a city less then 400 miles away. I also don't know if they paid for Lance's travel, and if they did in what way they paid.

I just find it unreasonable to dismiss all the other possible causes for the increase and lay blame primarily on one possible cause.

For all I know, they're paying for Lance's travel, but because they're at these meetings Livestrong is organizing it doesn't even go in that bucket, but rather in "programs". The travel budget might entirely be in their people attending programs put on by other organizations.

I simply think you're using very limited information to draw a very shaky conclusion that doesn't have a ton of evidence supporting it, but are quickly dismissing other potential conclusions for the same lack of evidence.Yes, we can track where Lance went and had races around some of these meetings. What we can't track is how many other livestrong employees went, how many trips they made before, during and after the event, how much their travel and other travel related expenses were... and if Lance used LAF funds to pay for his travel... or if by scheduling the events in those locations he was going to be at already he saved the organization money. We don't even know if any expenses the LAF paid for these things (lance's included) went into the travel ledger or the programs ledger.

I really am not saying you are wrong. I'm saying the information currently present doesn't lend itself to the idea they're paying tons of money for Lance's travel any more then it lends itself to the idea that it went to travel expenses for employees of the organization (which Lance is not).

Ok, so I link several articles that show what these events were and how they came about and you call that "very limited information"......

Yet all of your opinions are from numbers you are picking from the air, your "information" is not 'very limited', it is non-existent.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Holy crap! Milo, I seriously hope you're getting paid for this.

I've followed this for the last three days, and either you're trying to be obtuse or you're getting paid.

Or perhaps you're a shut-in with nothing better to do than be a contrarian.

For your sake, I hope you're getting paid...

Hey do not talk about me that way!

 

[BotanyBay]

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I wouldn’t know can you say with certainty that France could? I am only saying, without proof either way, it is pure conjecture. There are numerous possibilities of which your explanation is but one. You may know a lot about this subject, but unless you are Lance Armstrong or work for LAF you can’t say for sure what the reason was, can you? And by the way, obviously Dublin could and they did!

What can I say - you're correct, it is probably why France can't have a big bike race like other countries becasue they cannot sort out the logistics and accomadation of a few hundred people let alone thousands.

Also - you are looking for 'proof'....... hmm, what kind of 'proof' would satisfy you?

 

[jimbob_in_co]

 

[jimbob_in_co]

Okay, need to dry out the keyboard due to an ill advised drink of water right before seeing this posting.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Jimbob wins best post on this thread....

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Ok, so I link several articles that show what these events were and how they came about and you call that "very limited information"......

Yet all of your opinions are from numbers you are picking from the air, your "information" is not 'very limited', it is non-existent.

To be fair (in my opinion) none of the documents that everyone has the ability to see regarding the travel issue specifically states what the 2 or 3 million dollars went to. It is quite easy for us to assume that the largest most expensive thing it could have went for is Lance Armstrong’s personal travel to these events. If someone does not want to accept that assumption it does not require most on the message board to lose their collective minds over it.
I still can not get my mind around the copy / print cost these LAFers had! (Ginny's copy shop makes me sick....)

Now does “Cancer” fly a G5 or G6 these days?

“Poppin bottles in the ice, like a blizzard.
When we drink we do it right getting slizzard.
Sippin sizzurp in my ride, like Three 6.
Now I’m feelin so fly like a G6.
Like a G6, Like a G6.
Now I’m feelin so fly like a G6.

 

[patricknd]

To be fair (in my opinion) none of the documents that everyone has the ability to see regarding the travel issue specifically states what the 2 or 3 million dollars went to. It is quite easy for us to assume that the largest most expensive thing it could have went for is Lance Armstrong’s personal travel to these events. If someone does not want to accept that assumption it does not require most on the message board to lose their collective minds over it.
I still can not get my mind around the copy / print cost these LAFers had! (Ginny's copy shop makes me sick....)

Now does “Cancer” fly a G5 or G6 these days?

“Poppin bottles in the ice, like a blizzard.
When we drink we do it right getting slizzard.
Sippin sizzurp in my ride, like Three 6.
Now I’m feelin so fly like a G6.
Like a G6, Like a G6.
Now I’m feelin so fly like a G6.

and the funniest part is that there's 51 pages of this

 

[Barrus]

What can I say - you're correct, it is probably why France can't have a big bike race like other countries becasue they cannot sort out the logistics and accomadation of a few hundred people let alone thousands.

Also - you are looking for 'proof'....... hmm, what kind of 'proof' would satisfy you?

Probably only everything filled out in three different forms, complete with fingerprints and dna of all the members of the LAF board of directors, all of the McQuack family. All of the financial information fo the Armstrong estate. Obviously a tour of the jet, complete with trace evidence of every place the jet has ever been. Written afidavits of the last 5 presidents of the US, all of the Texas senators to date and written statements by Sarkozy and the government of Ireland.

Perhaps that all would suffice

 

[Dr. Maserati]

To be fair (in my opinion) none of the documents that everyone has the ability to see regarding the travel issue specifically states what the 2 or 3 million dollars went to. It is quite easy for us to assume that the largest most expensive thing it could have went for is Lance Armstrong’s personal travel to these events. If someone does not want to accept that assumption it does not require most on the message board to lose their collective minds over it.
I still can not get my mind around the copy / print cost these LAFers had! (Ginny's copy shop makes me sick....)

Now does “Cancer” fly a G5 or G6 these days?

“Poppin bottles in the ice, like a blizzard.
When we drink we do it right getting slizzard.
Sippin sizzurp in my ride, like Three 6.
Now I’m feelin so fly like a G6.
Like a G6, Like a G6.
Now I’m feelin so fly like a G6.

I agree - but this then goes back to what other charities are spending on 'travel' (which all the ones I have checked are in the tens of thousands) and to how the travel for the LAF has grown significantly over the 08 & 09 years.
We are not talking about the difference in a few dollars here.

For me the $4 million 'advertising' was an eye opener!

 

[Semper Fidelis]

and the funniest part is that there's 51 pages of this

Honestly I like reading it.

It is interesting to see what the different “takes” on foundations and charity’s are. I try and am trying not to get very emotional with it. I know for some it is personal.
(I think your previous or ongoing fight with the disease give’s you a different perspective.) In my opinion you should voice it more often. It is good to hear all sides of this. If you feel like it is too personal to share,,, I can fully respect that.
I still owe you a beer sometime anyhow. You can crack the bottle over my head when your done.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I agree - but this then goes back to what other charities are spending on 'travel' (which all the ones I have checked are in the tens of thousands) and to how the travel for the LAF has grown significantly over the 08 & 09 years.
We are not talking about the difference in a few dollars here.

For me the $4 million 'advertising' was an eye opener!

I know that advertising number sticks OUT more than the copy room. What did they need to advertise?
It is appears to be expensive to make everyone in the world “aware”.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I know that advertising number sticks OUT more than the copy room. What did they need to advertise?
It is appears to be expensive to make everyone in the world “aware”.

I wonder if that includes the "I am on my bike....." and other related Lance is not a doper TV ads that show up during the tour every year?