Interview w/ Chris Horner

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Jul 23, 2009
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Well I can't say that I'm surprised that a nearly 40 year old man who has discovered the fountain of youth and produces more watts per kilo than a cricket is suggesting a rider who test positive for clenbuterol should leave the race but can line up at the next event. As for adopting the "but look at what he's done for cancer" deflection approach, the guy has a couple of years left in him and he's getting what he can, while he can, however he can. Great thing about the interwebs, so easy to find old quotes that run counter to the new line of thought. Maybe Chris should just avoid giving interviews until the effects of the Kool Aid wear off.
 
fatandfast said:
so 17,18 and 19 year olds should say I can't ride with this squad because once a doper rode among the ranks.
ROTFLMAO. Nice try though.

pedaling squares said:
the guy has a couple of years left in him and he's getting what he can, while he can, however he can.
I`m sure the guy was going to have a really hard life after cycling having had a salary of only a few hundred thou a year for last few bunch of years. Probably wouldn`t have had any other commercial opportunities after retirement either, only having been one of the country`s most successful and (previously) engaging cycling personalities.

I realize I`ve taken a select quote from your larger post which has a very different tone. Just trying to debunk the concept that he would have been hard up for cash if he hadn`t squeezed out the top contract offer from RS instead of taking a bit less on another squad where he could have kept his soul.
 
mewmewmew13 said:
What immediately came to my mind was the interview that hog alluded to and that RR just posted...
how can anyone do such a public about face?
I think the answer was in the same interview: (money - which meant: "get on the program")

--

"I believed that until [Predictor-Lotto] came and offered me the contract," he said regarding negotiations for next year. "I understood that when I went to Saunier Duval why they were paying me a minimum wage salary. I understand the salary that Davitamon-Lotto paid me, that was justifiable and what I was worth and I didn't argue that. I performed better than what they paid me, but at the time I signed it was what I was worth.

"Now it's justifiable to say that I am worth this much more. If one team won't offer you what you are worth then you go somewhere else. There are a bunch of different teams out there where I could be happy."

Horner used some simple math to arrive at the number he is looking for in the final two-year contract of his racing career. "You look at the Tour and you are going over the second-to-last climb, there are 10-15 of us. You take my salary and it's about a third of the next-best rider in the group -- not the best rider, but the next rider that is better than me -- he is making three times what I am making.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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I think Horner deserves a little slack here-- that was hardly a fair question to ask him as an RS employee. Who among us would offer negative remarks, for worldwide publication, about someone we work for who could pick up a phone and get us fired the next day? Especially knowing what a vindictive SOB that someone can be. Like a lot of people, I winced to see him sign with Radio Shack. . . but I still think he's one of the smartest, hardest working, and most enjoyable riders in the peloton, and one who will go on to make a great DS or commentator. If the cost of having him around for another year or two is the occasional political fib he has to tell, it's worth it from my point of view.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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2wheels said:
I think Horner deserves a little slack here-- that was hardly a fair question to ask him as an RS employee. Who among us would offer negative remarks, for worldwide publication, about someone we work for who could pick up a phone and get us fired the next day? Especially knowing what a vindictive SOB that someone can be. Like a lot of people, I winced to see him sign with Radio Shack. . . but I still think he's one of the smartest, hardest working, and most enjoyable riders in the peloton, and one who will go on to make a great DS or commentator. If the cost of having him around for another year or two is the occasional political fib he has to tell, it's worth it from my point of view.
Nicely said. The apologists are getting a little more sublime around here...

You're right, cut him some slack, at least enough to tie his bag of money up with.

Gimme a break, what a load of omerta-infused propaganda...
 
Feb 15, 2011
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JA.Tri said:
I agree with the sentiment in principle. However it should not apply to AC as the amount of PED is insignificant, IFF, PED was inadvertently consumed.

That is: if an athlete is found to have "innocently" (adjudged as without fault) ingested PED then assessment of that intake needs to occur.

1. If PED intake is adjudged to be sufficient to have probably resulted in significantly (materially/noticeably) enhanced performance then the rider's results should be nullified. However no suspension is to be served.

2. If PED intake does not reach above threshold then result stands.

Therefore in AC's case:

If CAS finds "no fault ingestion" then point 2. applies (no different from any other case).

Would like to see point 1. applied when relevant...however to date that does not appear to have occurred.
I think it would be interesting if the 1st part was carried out. Do you think Pettachi would still have gotten a ban for Subutanol?
 
Jun 19, 2009
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pedaling squares said:
Well I can't say that I'm surprised that a nearly 40 year old man who has discovered the fountain of youth and produces more watts per kilo than a cricket is suggesting a rider who test positive for clenbuterol should leave the race but can line up at the next event. As for adopting the "but look at what he's done for cancer" deflection approach, the guy has a couple of years left in him and he's getting what he can, while he can, however he can. Great thing about the interwebs, so easy to find old quotes that run counter to the new line of thought. Maybe Chris should just avoid giving interviews until the effects of the Kool Aid wear off.
Bend, Oregon will look good late next year and he should finally put the trailer on blocks, kick back and work that Green Card everyone has living near the Cali border. Deschutes beer is really good and reporters won't fly that far off the grid for an interview...
 
Sep 25, 2009
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2wheels said:
I think Horner deserves a little slack here-- that was hardly a fair question to ask him as an RS employee. Who among us would offer negative remarks, for worldwide publication, about someone we work for who could pick up a phone and get us fired the next day? Especially knowing what a vindictive SOB that someone can be. Like a lot of people, I winced to see him sign with Radio Shack. . . but I still think he's one of the smartest, hardest working, and most enjoyable riders in the peloton, and one who will go on to make a great DS or commentator. If the cost of having him around for another year or two is the occasional political fib he has to tell, it's worth it from my point of view.
to the bolded...nah, don't confuse one of the most loosest tongues with smart. but i'll give you he's hard working.

had he been smart, he'd know how to answer a difficult question w/o getting his employer mad and mixing in so much crap.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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2wheels said:
I think Horner deserves a little slack here-- that was hardly a fair question to ask him as an RS employee. Who among us would offer negative remarks, for worldwide publication, about someone we work for who could pick up a phone and get us fired the next day?...
How about, "You know, it's not appropriate for me to discuss something that is under investigation. Much of what we read in the media is rumour and conjecture, and I feel it is in the best interests of the investigation and of our sport that we wait and see what, if any, facts are presented to the public before commenting." That took me about five seconds, you would think that Horner and the Team RS advisors have had enough time to prepare an answer to that question. If Fabiani gets tens of thousands per month to produce such gems as http://www.facts4lance.com, I think I should get a couple of thou for those two crappy sentences in italics.
 
May 18, 2009
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pedaling squares said:
Well I can't say that I'm surprised that a nearly 40 year old man who has discovered the fountain of youth and produces more watts per kilo than a cricket is suggesting a rider who test positive for clenbuterol should leave the race but can line up at the next event. As for adopting the "but look at what he's done for cancer" deflection approach, the guy has a couple of years left in him and he's getting what he can, while he can, however he can. Great thing about the interwebs, so easy to find old quotes that run counter to the new line of thought. Maybe Chris should just avoid giving interviews until the effects of the Kool Aid wear off.
Please post a link where it documents CH can produce more watts/kg than a cricket. Can anybody figure VAM of a cricket by watching a tape of it on youtube?

*** edited by mod ***
 
mwbyrd said:
Some of you are reading WAY TOO Much into what Horner said!!

How about including the whole quote to put in context:

Bicycling.com: Is cycling a cleaner sport these days?



CH: Yes, for sure. You see the differences…. The fans in the States can see it with all these young kids getting results over in Europe. And you see them, they’re riding so good and so strong. And you can see the speed differences in Europe in the field. So I think it’s a great time, it’s a fabulous time, as a youngster to be a cyclist.
I don't think I cut anything relevant from that quote. Point is, he's pretty much equating "doping" with "European cycling culture", saying if young Americans get good results now that's a sign that things are cleaner, all while radically changing his position about doping and Armstrong's teams and ignoring the fact that allegedly the greatest generation of American riders (Armstrong, Hamilton, Hincapie, Landis, Zabriskie...) rose to prominence thanks to systematic doping. Such hypocrisy is absolutely disgusting.
 
I think what may be equally bothersome to a few is that Chris also raced domestically and in the UCI-Continental tour when doping was as rife as the ProTour. No one really thinks just because of his criticism of USPS he was clean back then, and after joining Astana/RS, all of a sudden became a doper, do they? Maybe some do? I'd be curious to hear some thoughts on that.

All that aside, I kind of like the guy. His interviews at the TOC were great talk about strategy, team tactics. Compare that to the cardboard Levi from previous years. When he retires in another 10 years he could have a future career as a cycling commentator on TV.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
I think what may be equally bothersome to a few is that Chris also raced domestically and in the UCI-Continental tour when doping was as rife as the ProTour. No one really thinks just because of his criticism of USPS he was clean back then, and after joining Astana/RS, all of a sudden became a doper, do they? Maybe some do? I'd be curious to hear some thoughts on that.

All that aside, I kind of like the guy. His interviews at the TOC were great talk about strategy, team tactics. Compare that to the cardboard Levi from previous years. When he retires in another 10 years he could have a future career as a cycling commentator on TV.
I like the guy's animation and insights but your notes about his domestic career are correct. His observations about USPS in the mountains could be judged as just that; his observation regarding an entire team. Nowhere did he exonerate himself or the rest of the peloton. He should retire soon.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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pedaling squares said:
. . . If Fabiani gets tens of thousands per month to produce such gems as http://www.facts4lance.com, I think I should get a couple of thou for those two crappy sentences in italics.
Maybe Horner gets his talking points from someone higher up the ladder than Fabiani. . why, maybe even the guy who signs Fabiani's check! No, it's too far-fetched. . .:rolleyes:
 
ChrisE said:
Please post a link where it documents CH can produce more watts/kg than a cricket. Can anybody figure VAM of a cricket by watching a tape of it on youtube?
I couldn't resist this:

Jumping performance of planthoppers (Hemiptera, Issidae)

Malcolm Burrows

J. Exper. Biol. 212, 2844-2855 (2009)

The structure of the hind limbs and the kinematics of their movements that propel jumping in planthopper insects (Hemiptera, Auchenorrhyncha, Fulgoroidea, Issidae) were analysed. The propulsion for a jump was delivered by rapid movements of the hind legs that both move in the same plane beneath the body and parallel to its longitudinal axis, as revealed in high-speed sequences of images captured at rates up to 7500 images s–1. The first and key movement was the depression of both trochantera about their coxae, powered by large depressor muscles in the thorax, accompanied by rapid extension of the tibiae about their femora. The initial movements of the two trochantera of the hind legs were synchronised to within 0.03 ms. The hind legs are only 20% longer than the front and middle legs, represent 65% of the body length, and have a ratio of 1.8 relative to the cube root of the body mass. The two hind coxae have a different structure to those in frog- and leafhoppers. They are fused at the mid-line, covered ventrally by transparent cuticle, and each is fixed laterally to a part of the internal skeleton called the pleural arch that extends to the articulation of a hind wing. A small and pointed, ventral coxal protrusion covered in microtrichia engages with a raised, smooth, white patch on a dorsal femur when a hind leg is levated (cocked) in preparation for a jump. In the best jumps by a male Issus, the body was accelerated in 0.8 ms to a take-off velocity of 5.5 m s–1, was subjected to a force of 719 g and was displaced a horizontal distance of 1.1 m. This performance required an energy output of 303 μJ, a power output of 388 mW and exerted a force of 141 mN, or more than 700 times its body mass. This performance implies that a catapult mechanism must be used, and that Issus ranks alongside the froghopper Philaenus as one of the best insect jumpers.
Adult female Issus body mass was 32.2±2.01 mg (mean± s.e.m., N=5, range 29–40 mg) whereas the body mass of males was significantly less, 21.5±0.56 mg (mean ± s.e.m., N=10, range 20–25 mg; t-test, t53.2=18.2, P<0.001; Table 1)
388 mW/21.5 mg = 18.05 mW/mg = 18 W/g = 18,000 watts/kg. About 3000x better than Horner. And they don't take PEDs, either, save possibly for the occasional sip of beetroot juice.

Bettini's nickname suggested more awesomeness than he and his fans ever realized.

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/212/17/2844.full
 
Apr 7, 2009
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hrotha said:
I don't think I cut anything relevant from that quote. Point is, he's pretty much equating "doping" with "European cycling culture", saying if young Americans get good results now that's a sign that things are cleaner, all while radically changing his position about doping and Armstrong's teams and ignoring the fact that allegedly the greatest generation of American riders (Armstrong, Hamilton, Hincapie, Landis, Zabriskie...) rose to prominence thanks to systematic doping. Such hypocrisy is absolutely disgusting.
Why is it what Horner says so disgusting? This is coming from a guy in the middle of the peloton and knows whats going on much better than any of us 'arm chair quaterbacks'. I'll take his word for it.

How do you figure he changed his position on cycling? I think Horner has stated what should be blatently obvious to us re: Contador. How is an athlete capable of knowing exactly what goes into the food he eats unless he grew it himself. We all know the FDA doesn't monitor half of what we put in our bodies on a daily basis.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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mwbyrd said:
Why is it what Horner says so disgusting? This is coming from a guy in the middle of the peloton and knows whats going on much better than any of us 'arm chair quaterbacks'. I'll take his word for it.

How do you figure he changed his position on cycling? I think Horner has stated what should be blatently obvious to us re: Contador. How is an athlete capable of knowing exactly what goes into the food he eats unless he grew it himself. We all know the FDA doesn't monitor half of what we put in our bodies on a daily basis.
Not quite in the middle anymore. Figure it out, stumpy...
 
What they mean by the NASCAR style of racing is that the commissaires will wave a yellow flag and a 'safety bike' will come out and neutralise all racing, bunching the break back into the péloton, every time there's a crash, puncture, or they touch wheels without going down. Stages will all finish at velodromes since the fans can see more, and new team sponsors will include brands of BBQ sauce, cheap alcohol, budget supermarkets and furniture stores. If a race looks like going to interesting, unpredictable finishes, they will bunch it together in the last 2km for no apparent reason with the safety bike, so that we can have an exciting sprint finish. The points system will be ridiculously high-scoring, arbitrary and include points for things like leading the péloton as well as a number of almost inexplicable bonuses, the points will go to the team as well as the rider and only 12 riders can score points in week 3, and all their points will be reset on the 2nd rest day.
 

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