Investigation started with Rock Racing?

[Epicycle]

Seems like that's why the grand jury is empaneled in Los Angeles. Novitzky was investigating Michael Ball and Rock Racing before Landis sent the e-mails. Now the Feds can kill two birds with one stone by using the LA grand jury to get testimony from former Posties. Any comment from Leogrande's former source Joe Papp about the extent of the doping culture at Rock?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/08/01/2010-08-01_probe_looks_under_rock.html

 

[Fester]

Very interesting but also sad. Ball was good for cycling, that idea, the bad boy image was brilliant, in a sport where the bad boys wear white and kiss babies; it was a breath of fresh air.

It also shows the extent of Armstrong's indirect influence in US cycling, merely as a result of his success.

An amnesty is needed in this sport while the rules are reviewed.

 

[Epicycle]

Very interesting but also sad. Ball was good for cycling, that idea, the bad boy image was brilliant, in a sport where the bad boys wear white and kiss babies; it was a breath of fresh air.

It also shows the extent of Armstrong's indirect influence in US cycling, merely as a result of his success.

An amnesty is needed in this sport while the rules are reviewed.

Yes the manufactured rebellion turned some people on but Ball was not good for cycling. He's the guy who said he was first drawn to the sport when he saw a horrible crash. Plus he clearly had issues as a businessman. And even before he started the cycling team his history at Rock and Republic indicated he treated employees badly and was a general douchebag.

 

[straydog]

Very interesting but also sad. Ball was good for cycling, that idea, the bad boy image was brilliant, in a sport where the bad boys wear white and kiss babies; it was a breath of fresh air.

It also shows the extent of Armstrong's indirect influence in US cycling, merely as a result of his success.

An amnesty is needed in this sport while the rules are reviewed.

An amnesty is needed in this sport while the rules are reviewed.

At last, some sense on this forum....I agree Fester....completely.

And Ball was and is a douche....but Rock was a good idea....every sport and every drama needs it's bad boys....it's Mike Tysons....it's John Dalys....it's Maradonnas....it would be a hell of a lot less interesting without them.

 

[DAOTEC]

 

[Hugh Januss]

How old is that?

 

[lean mean &green]

An amnesty is needed in this sport while the rules are reviewed.

At last, some sense on this forum....I agree Fester....completely.

And Ball was and is a douche....but Rock was a good idea....every sport and every drama needs it's bad boys....it's Mike Tysons....it's John Dalys....it's Maradonnas....it would be a hell of a lot less interesting without them.

amnesty will accomplish ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. no one will come forward unless they are forced or completely out of options. suggesting it's likely to result in real change is clueless.

sports are only more interesting with mike tyson's if you have little appreciation for athletic endeavors and only seek to consume sports news as superficial entertainment in the same vane as tabloid gossip of which plenty exists elsewhere.

 

[Fester]

amnesty will accomplish ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. no one will come forward unless they are forced or completely out of options. suggesting it's likely to result in real change is clueless.

sports are only more interesting with mike tyson's if you have little appreciation for athletic endeavors and only seek to consume sports news as superficial entertainment in the same vane as tabloid gossip of which plenty exists elsewhere.

Do you think sport is more than superficial entertainment? That is what it is to all bar the athletes, who are taking real risks. It's been superficial entertainment for the fans since the colosseum.

An amnesty will work by ceasing all current investigation, forgiving what happened before. Then setting up some usable rules and dismantling this unfair system. It's a system which reward the unscrupulous.

I appreciate your view, but it is what it is and if you want pure athletic endeavor I suggest you get out on your bike just for the fun -that's pure athletic endeavor. Behind professional sports you'd be disappointed to see how pathetically human athletes are.

 

[straydog]

Do you think sport is more than superficial entertainment? That is what it is to all bar the athletes, who are taking real risks. It's been superficial entertainment for the fans since the colosseum.

An amnesty will work by ceasing all current investigation, forgiving what happened before. Then setting up some usable rules and dismantling this unfair system. It's a system which reward the unscrupulous.

I appreciate your view, but it is what it is and if you want pure athletic endeavor I suggest you get out on your bike just for the fun -that's pure athletic endeavor. Behind professional sports you'd be disappointed to see how pathetically human athletes are.

*** edited by mod ***

 

[TopCarbon]

there is a lot of dirt under that rug, and you just cant sweep it under and forget about it.

 

[straydog]

there is a lot of dirt under that rug, and you just cant sweep it under and forget about it.

No, they shouldn't just forget about it....it should be like the truth and reconciliation hearings....let's all be honest....face up to what's been going on....and then decide on a way forward.

 

[lean mean &green]

Do you think sport is more than superficial entertainment? That is what it is to all bar the athletes, who are taking real risks. It's been superficial entertainment for the fans since the colosseum.

superficial entertainment? then why are we wasting countless hours debating these issues? fairness in sport is quite obviously a deeper concern to many people. you might want to re-think this mental shortcut.

An amnesty will work by ceasing all current investigation, forgiving what happened before. Then setting up some usable rules and dismantling this unfair system. It's a system which reward the unscrupulous.

i can't think of a worse plan than ceasing current investigations if the goal is to punish the most unscrupulous.

I appreciate your view, but it is what it is and if you want pure athletic endeavor I suggest you get out on your bike just for the fun -that's pure athletic endeavor. Behind professional sports you'd be disappointed to see how pathetically human athletes are.

instead of assuming i'm naive, try tackling it from the other direction, assume i'm a few steps ahead of you, it will get you into less trouble.

exactly, it is what it is. simply hitting the "reset" button will accomplish NOTHING. ZIP. ZILCH. everyone will return to business as usual the next day. we need patience and hard work in the area of detection, it's not that complicated.

 

[Oldman]

An amnesty is needed in this sport while the rules are reviewed.

At last, some sense on this forum....I agree Fester....completely.

And Ball was and is a douche....but Rock was a good idea....every sport and every drama needs it's bad boys....it's Mike Tysons....it's John Dalys....it's Maradonnas....it would be a hell of a lot less interesting without them.

Novitsky's not interested in cycling. Assume Ball was moving money where it shouldn't be and doing things he shouldn't be doing. Cycling is very minor league.

 

[BikeCentric]

Very interesting but also sad. Ball was good for cycling, that idea, the bad boy image was brilliant, in a sport where the bad boys wear white and kiss babies; it was a breath of fresh air.

It also shows the extent of Armstrong's indirect influence in US cycling, merely as a result of his success.

An amnesty is needed in this sport while the rules are reviewed.

Actually it was a terrible idea as proven by the failure the team.

 

[BikeCentric]

An amnesty is needed in this sport while the rules are reviewed.

At last, some sense on this forum....I agree Fester....completely.

And Ball was and is a douche....but Rock was a good idea....every sport and every drama needs it's bad boys....it's Mike Tysons....it's John Dalys....it's Maradonnas....it would be a hell of a lot less interesting without them.

We already have our villain in this sport puppy - it's your man-crush Pharmstrong.

 

[Benotti69]

An Amnesty is only workable across the board;

with the implementation of DNA from all pro cyclists for future testing.

A complete removal of all the top UCI people and IOC former UCI people, Verbruggen yep.

A move by governments to make doping offence's finable/criminal with the option of time of €100,000euro+ fines automatic plus criminal record.

Make race organisers culpable to doping, how? i dont know, but they are as much paart of the problem for turning a blind eye to it all.

Teams punished, especially DS's and team doctor's for cyclists who test positive, miss important races, like monuments and GTs...

I am sure plenty of others can add the 2 cents.

 

[DAOTEC]

"Ball could hold link to Armstrong probe"

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ball-could-hold-link-to-armstrong-probe

 

[Fester]

superficial entertainment? then why are we wasting countless hours debating these issues? fairness in sport is quite obviously a deeper concern to many people. you might want to re-think this mental shortcut.



i can't think of a worse plan than ceasing current investigations if the goal is to punish the most unscrupulous.



instead of assuming i'm naive, try tackling it from the other direction, assume i'm a few steps ahead of you, it will get you into less trouble.

exactly, it is what it is. simply hitting the "reset" button will accomplish NOTHING. ZIP. ZILCH. everyone will return to business as usual the next day. we need patience and hard work in the area of detection, it's not that complicated.

In regard the last point, I wasn't assuming you are naive, I was implying that culpability essentially lies with the individual: I.e. only you can be sure you're honest. Hence the lone cyclist testing his capabilities is the only pure form of sport. Otherwise you can't be sure of anything

Also following on this point, I understand you may be involved in the sport (or not?). In which case having further explained my point you? You would not be the usual fan for whom it is superficial entertainment, but someone who has a real stake.

In terms of an amnesty, the idea would be to make a workable rule structure for the sport and not one that people continuously subvert. Very good suggestions have been made in this regard. And the bio passport must have helped a bit.

In terms of past doping offenses: We are not going to take victories away from Anquetil, Merckx or Coppi, -all proven to some extend dopers, so I don't think it's right to take victories from Riis for example.

 

[DAOTEC]

Sinds Ball holds the key for toppeling 'Captain America', him mighte been offered a sweet deal to ... say UCI license a like and some fin. insentives ... agree ?

 

[flicker]

Does anyone know how rock and ball relate to a certain Mr. Lance Armstrong? Just curious. Seems like Lance would want nothing to do with Ball. Is it the name Ball, the loneliness associated with the name Ball?

 

[Race Radio]

Does anyone know how rock and ball relate to a certain Mr. Lance Armstrong? Just curious. Seems like Lance would want nothing to do with Ball. Is it the name Ball, the loneliness associated with the name Ball?

The Fed were already investigating the Rock/Joe Papp case. USADA was part of this. When the Landis emails were sent USDA asked the Feds to also look into the Landis case.

 

[BroDeal]

Does anyone know how rock and ball relate to a certain Mr. Lance Armstrong? Just curious. Seems like Lance would want nothing to do with Ball. Is it the name Ball, the loneliness associated with the name Ball?

There could be U.S. riders from Postal/Disco/Astana/RS who shared the same drug sources with riders from Rock and perhaps many other U.S. teams. Maybe there is a network of interrelated sources that are used. These guys spend so much of their time in the U.S. training. They have to get their stuff from someone.

If someone, like Leipheimer or Hincapie, gets ensared by a drug ring investigation then it would be easy to get him to roll over on his team.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

In case some were not sure, Joe was only involved with RR for a short time. Leogrande dug his own grave, Joe's action was only one shovel of dirt that helped bury him.

Joe's sentencing documents are sealed by the court. This is very common when an investigation is ongoing. We don't know what Joe, or whomever else he was connected to, said about RR, and I'm sure he's not going to come on here and post about it.

 

[DAOTEC]

Momentum !

http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2010/08/the_jeans_mogul_at_the_heart_o.html

 

[Polish]

Surely there MUST be a link between Ball and the RICO / Fraud / Tax Evasion charges leveled against Lance.

Why did Novitsky, the head honcho behind the Balco Investigation, become involved in cycling? To get to Lance - granted.

And why did Novitzsky start with Ball / Rock Racing? To get to Lance - granted again.

But connecting the dots?

C'mon Clinic Super Sleuths - put your thinking caps on.