Is Andy Schleck being criticised too much lately?

[Libertine Seguros]

Quick - who won the Giro in 1958? 1961? Answer - similarly forgotten Italians remembered only by real cycling nerds.

Everyone remembers Poulidor though. And it's not for winning the Viuelta.

Winners are more easily remembered than runners-up, however, as their names at least appear in the history book lists of winners, which are more often recounted than the podium count or top 10 GC. I can look up "Giro d'Italia winners" and find the ones you ask (Baldini and Pambianco for the record, I looked them up), but to find the runners-up you have to click on the individual editions of the race.

A rider like Poulidor is an exception; he's an exception because he retired without fulfilling something that he should have merited, just like Stirling Moss is probably more famous for not winning the world championship than he could have been as another one-time champion, or the Buffalo Bills team of the 90s for losing four straight Superbowls. Had Ullrich not won in 1997, he could probably have gone that way (and of course Andy Schleck still has the possibility of going that way).

 

[movingtarget]

Winners are more easily remembered than runners-up, however, as their names at least appear in the history book lists of winners, which are more often recounted than the podium count or top 10 GC. I can look up "Giro d'Italia winners" and find the ones you ask (Baldini and Pambianco for the record, I looked them up), but to find the runners-up you have to click on the individual editions of the race.

A rider like Poulidor is an exception; he's an exception because he retired without fulfilling something that he should have merited, just like Stirling Moss is probably more famous for not winning the world championship than he could have been as another one-time champion, or the Buffalo Bills team of the 90s for losing four straight Superbowls. Had Ullrich not won in 1997, he could probably have gone that way (and of course Andy Schleck still has the possibility of going that way).

Well looking at the course for this year's TDF most people would not pick Schleck to win based on what we have seen for the past few years re TT riding and attitude. Even if Bruyneel can improve those things and I think he will, I still can't see Schleck winning this year and I think he will struggle to make the podium. He will have some handy domestiques though with Kloden, Horner and Leipheimer plus Frank. Not that he need much help in the mountains but he may need them after the descents.Plus this year could be even harder if Wiggins stays upright and Martin and Leipheimer and Menchov ride great TT's which is probable. Those riders will never have a better course for their abilities. Though Martin will definitely have to improve his climbing even if he makes good time gains in the TT. Those riders will push for podium positions plus you have Evans and Contador and possibly Gesink and VDB if they can find their best form plus Rolland and Voeckler, Sanchez and possibly Basso or Nibali. All of those riders ride a better TT than Schleck. He may have to take a closer look at the Giro next year even if like he says, "it's all about the Tour." Even if Contador is banned and I doubt that he will be, Schleck still won't find it easy to breakthrough for a win at the TDF in the near future. His best chance is a favourable route and no Contador. Lots of high mountains and minimal TT kms.

 

[issoisso]

He will have some handy domestiques though with Kloden, Horner and Leipheimer plus Frank.

Leipheimer's at QuickStep

Even if Contador is banned and I doubt that he will be, Schleck still won't find it easy to breakthrough for a win at the TDF in the near future. His best chance is a favourable route and no Contador. Lots of high mountains and minimal TT kms.

Agreed, but he had both those things this year and he still didn't win. He had three consecutive years of the most extreme courses in modern Tour history in terms of suiting him and he failed every time. If the switch back to a normal Tour route for 2012 is to be kept for future years, his chances of ever winning are minimal.

 

[The Hitch]

Well looking at the course for this year's TDF most people would not pick Schleck to win based on what we have seen for the past few years re TT riding and attitude. Even if Bruyneel can improve those things and I think he will, I still can't see Schleck winning this year and I think he will struggle to make the podium. He will have some handy domestiques though with Kloden, Horner and Leipheimer plus Frank. Not that he need much help in the mountains but he may need them after the descents.Plus this year could be even harder if Wiggins stays upright and Martin and Leipheimer and Menchov ride great TT's which is probable. Those riders will never have a better course for their abilities. Though Martin will definitely have to improve his climbing even if he makes good time gains in the TT. Those riders will push for podium positions plus you have Evans and Contador and possibly Gesink and VDB if they can find their best form plus Rolland and Voeckler, Sanchez and possibly Basso or Nibali. All of those riders ride a better TT than Schleck. He may have to take a closer look at the Giro next year even if like he says, "it's all about the Tour." Even if Contador is banned and I doubt that he will be, Schleck still won't find it easy to breakthrough for a win at the TDF in the near future. His best chance is a favourable route and no Contador. Lots of high mountains and minimal TT kms.

Are you serious? Sanchez being placed in the group of Rolland Voeckler and post Giro Basso, behind vastly superior tters like Robert Gesink and JVDB.

Quick, save face and pretend you accidentaly left out Samu and the Sanchez you bizzarely place on the level with Voeckler is actually LLS.

 

[Ryaguas]

Are you serious? Sanchez being placed in the group of Rolland Voeckler and post Giro Basso, behind vastly superior tters like Robert Gesink and JVDB.

Quick, save face and pretend you accidentaly left out Samu and the Sanchez you bizzarely place on the level with Voeckler is actually LLS.

HAHAHAHA! I knew it! I knew that you were going to say that haha
Dont bother Hitch ppl here dont care about samu =/

 

[pig pen]

Winners are more easily remembered than runners-up, however, as their names at least appear in the history book lists of winners, which are more often recounted than the podium count or top 10 GC. I can look up "Giro d'Italia winners" and find the ones you ask (Baldini and Pambianco for the record, I looked them up), but to find the runners-up you have to click on the individual editions of the race.

A rider like Poulidor is an exception; he's an exception because he retired without fulfilling something that he should have merited, just like Stirling Moss is probably more famous for not winning the world championship than he could have been as another one-time champion, or the Buffalo Bills team of the 90s for losing four straight Superbowls. Had Ullrich not won in 1997, he could probably have gone that way (and of course Andy Schleck still has the possibility of going that way).

50 50 chance Andy wins the '10 tour this month. No doubt Andy has 3 more Tour victories inside his organism, he is just getting warmed up. Do you really think Johann wastes time on losers?

 

[the asian]

50 50 chance Andy wins the '10 tour this month. No doubt Andy has 3 more Tour victories inside his organism, he is just getting warmed up. Do you really think Johann wastes time on losers?

The tour route must have minimal. ITT KMs, lots of Mountain stages with Mountain top finishes, No descends, Very good weather throughout the tour, and no Alberto Contador, for Andy to win 3 tours.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

50 50 chance Andy wins the '10 tour this month. No doubt Andy has 3 more Tour victories inside his organism, he is just getting warmed up. Do you really think Johann wastes time on losers?

He wasted years on Brajkovic. *shrugs*

 

[Barrus]

50 50 chance Andy wins the '10 tour this month. No doubt Andy has 3 more Tour victories inside his organism, he is just getting warmed up. Do you really think Johann wastes time on losers?

He might not be a loser but he misses too much to be a TdF winner. It would be better for him to target races that suit him more, such as this years Giro. If the Tour returns back to form, which means more TT kilometres than there have been the last few years, it will get increasingly hard for Schleck to win the TdF, I believe he had the best opportunity to legitimately win the TdF last year, but he made too many mistakes

 

[movingtarget]

Are you serious? Sanchez being placed in the group of Rolland Voeckler and post Giro Basso, behind vastly superior tters like Robert Gesink and JVDB.

Quick, save face and pretend you accidentaly left out Samu and the Sanchez you bizzarely place on the level with Voeckler is actually LLS.

Okay quite a motley crew of GC riders but I only grouped them together re their superior TT ability against Schleck. No doubt Voeckler won't be handed a time gift this year and two TT's don't help him much either. I only mentioned Gesink and VDB as riders that could do something but have not lived up to their potential yet. Sanchez will always be up there in the top 5 or so. Rolland should be an improver but we thought the same about Gesink and VDB as well but both of them have had shocking runs of bad luck and injuries with only Christian Van De Velde being superior in the bad luck department. Martin and Wiggins have to be considered with the two TT's although I have serious doubts about Martin's ability to get over the mountains with the best riders. Basso is an unknown like Menchov. We might have seen the best of them. Sometimes it happens like that eg Sastre.........great win in 2008 but two years later, just a shadow of what he used to be. Yes I forgot that Leipheimer has gone to Quickstep. No TTT should help him but will he hang on in the mountains ? The TT's will suit him. All in all, a lot to overcome for Andy. And that's without even mentioning Contador and Evans. It would help if Frank sacrificed a top 10 finish and just rode like a domestique for Andy instead of the dual leader scenario of the past few years. But then there are the TT's. I will be interested to see how Bruyneel uses Horner and Kloden. Possibly more daring long breaks re Galibier 2010 ? It's probably Schleck's only hope to try things he would not normally do.

 

[movingtarget]

Of course I meant Galibier 2011. This always happens in January !

 

[TheEnoculator]

The 2011 Tour was Andy's BEST chance to win it. Lots of mountains, little TT's, a Contador who's very tired....

He had so many chances to attack, but he didn't, because he wanted Frank to be there too! He wanted Frank to be on the podium with him. So he kept waiting. This brotherly love ended up being their demise, because all Cadel had to do now was keep up in the mountains. He didn't have to counter that many attacks. And he won it all with one good TT.

If Bruyneel wants to win the Tour with the Schlecks, ever, he has to focus on Andy and tell him to forget about Frank. Frank is a talented rider and every bit as good as Andy as a climber, but they can only focus on one guy in order to win a grand tour.

 

[pig pen]

He wasted years on Brajkovic. *shrugs*

Brajkovic is a one week rider. I think Bruyneel used him as a GC man in grand tours because he didn't have any better riders. (His guys were banged up.) Pretty epic fail by Brajkovic in La Vuelta, eh?

 

[El Pistolero]

He wasted years on Brajkovic. *shrugs*

He and Armstrong also wanted to turn Devolder into a Tour winner(or GT rider at least). I remember an interview of Armstrong where he said he said Devolder could be a potential future Tour winner with the help of Bruyneel. I think it was an interview from 2006, not sure though.

 

[Woolhat67]

Part of Jani's problem last season was that he was riding with a case of Mono. You can check out his twitter feed for his statement on it. He mentioned it a few weeks ago. That could explain his poor Vuelta performance.

 

[Sofía_]

what Andy lacks to be a good TT? is he at his limit with actual body built? or is a technical issue? or both

 

[El Pistolero]

what Andy lacks to be a good TT? is he at his limit with actual body built? or is a technical issue? or both

Mental issue

Body issue

Technical issue


Schleck doesn't like training when it's raining for example. He doesn't take his job serious enough to be a multiple Grand Tour winner.

 

[pig pen]

Mental issue

Body issue

Technical issue


Schleck doesn't like training when it's raining for example. He doesn't take his job serious enough to be a multiple Grand Tour winner.

We always see these complaints about Schleck. There is no issue with Andys' body vessel. He has a healthy organism to complete GTs and classics.
We do not see anymore tech issues with Andy. Dropping a chain can happen to any cyclist, with any equipment.
As far as environmental issues, Schleck could live and train in the USA, we are in drought conditions in California and Texas.
Riding and training in Europe are nasty, sometimes.

 

[Havetts]

Schleck doesn't like training when it's raining for example. He doesn't take his job serious enough to be a multiple Grand Tour winner.

[citation needed]

 

[El Pistolero]

[citation needed]

I read an article that Schleck was training in Velodrome of Gent because he didn't like training in the bad weather.

1) It hadn't rained in Belgium for a whole month
2) It wasn't cold at all this winter, I never wore my jacket outside.
3) If that is already bad weather, what's he going to do when it actually rains?
4) If you want to train in warm temperatures during the winter then don't come to Belgium.

And look how poor he was in the Tour stage that finished in Gap. He even said he's bad when it rains. I wonder why

 

[Je ne sais quoi]

I expect Andy to be stronger this year. With the advent of electronic shifting, Bruyneel will be able to do all the shifting and tactics from the team car, and Andy will never drop another chain.


Kidding aside, I do expect him to improve. The question is also, how much will the others improve…

 

[Forunculo]

I guess Bruyneel is building Andy for 2013, this year learn from him to make a plan in 2013 in the 100th Tour de France. The rumours said of a tons of hard mountains but we don't know about the TTs. But I hope for a balance Tour.

 

[No_Balls]

I think besides the obvious as previously stated, bad TTer, bad descender, bad race tactics, bad race schedule, bad luck, bad equipment, bad mechanic(s), bad preparation, ..

Actually, Andy probably has been the luckiest rider in the Peloton this last couple of years. Everything has he been afforded by the gods. There has been finishes inside the minute rule, chrashes, entire routes that has been designed for him, weather (Andy will not survive a rainy tour) et al that all has played in the hands of him.

He has never drawn any benefit of his luck and yet Karma hasnt kicked in. Something tells me that is exactly what will happen under the Bruyneel regime.

 

[rzombie1988]

The tour coming up is so opposite compared to last year's Tour when it comes to Andy. He had a weak Contador, a course made for him, tons of unfair time penalties to his opponents, no Menchov and a healthy Frank to work with. This year, he's going to meet a very determined Contador and a course suited for a Cadel/Contador/Menchov type. I just don't see it happening this year for Andy. He's certain to lose big time in the TT's and I don't see anyone allowing him to get another big breakaway like last year. Therefore, his only chance is to somehow smoke Contador on some of the MTF's and yeah, not happening. He's seriously going to be lucky to hit the top 5.

 

[La Pandera]

Just read a quote from Andy in the latest Cycle Sport America mag. As someone posted previously, he and Frank are the coverboys of the most recent issue and in that cover story/article/interview Andy states that had Frank not crashed that they would've "kicked Contador's ar$e". That is the exact wording of the quote. I personally can't recall a grand tour contender, other than Ricco, that talked more smack but consistently failed to back it up with the actual win. Frank has his whine about Sastre attacking the yellow jersey and implies that the Tour victory was stolen from him by his own teammate and of course Andy agrees.

To answer the OP's question, HELL NO Andy isn't being criticised too much lately! With quotes like the above, he isn't criticised enough. We hear all this talk about what a nice guy he is but the image that is presented through the media and some of his actions is quite the contrary. He's 26 now so when does maturity kick in and he begins to think before he speaks?

Additionally Cycle Sport states that Andy is the sport's greatest climber based on his performances in the Tour in 2010 and 2011. I'm not going to rehash the 2 tours and what transpired but I can't see where a rational cycling fan would conclude that he is superior to Contador in the mountains based the results of the past two Tours. Of course I'm biased so my perspective is bit skewed.