Is anybody else tired of watching wheel sucking Spanish/Itlalian riders?

[Dr. Maserati]

Spot on!! Finally someone agrees that cadel is smartest and strongest!!

I am not flaming here but I think you are doing a great disservice to Cadel by saying he was the strongest and smartest.

I would certainly agree that he rode a very smart finale but IMO both Cancellara and Kolobnev were stronger - which for me makes his victory more impressive.

By saying Cadel was the strongest & smartest would imply that out of the group he was expected to win.

He didn't panic when he was slightly behind on the second last climb then he followed the moves by the Spanish and when the opportunity arose and others hesitated he gave it 100% on the final climb to create the decisive gap - which for me was what made the race exciting and satisfying.

 

[auscyclefan94]

So this so-called "weakest, most tired rider" was apparently the strongest Spaniard that day based on his aggressive riding and podium finish. Mounting an ill-fated chase of Evans would only have pulled the Italians, Cancellara and whoever else was left in that last 10.

How did they know they were going to get beat? Rodriguez was there. Apparently the only rider with legs comparable to Rodriguez at that time was Sanchez and his position was such that even had he been able to bridge to the Evans/Kolobnev/Rodriguez trio the effort would have left him with nothing left to battle Evans and Kolobnev for the win, not to mention THE ITALIANS AND CANCELLARA THAT HE WOULD HAVE DRAGGED WITH HIM. (Not yelling just capitalized to reiterate a point that has been made throughout this thread).

Did you completely ignore the part where Valverde was cooked?

A podium spot is better than none at all. The Italians are the losers here. They have nothing to show for their efforts. Such is one day races, it doesn't always work out as is predicted.

Agreed.
The spainiards placed. The italians screwed it up big time and ran out of legs. Why would Sanchez or valverde jump out of the group when they had Rodriguez in the lead group. even so, SS and AV didn't have it and neither did Cunego so that's why they just "wheel sucked" because they were just hoping for FC to chase then finish it off in the sprint.

 

[cyclingmad]

Tactics

I would say that having 3 riders in the final ten of a race isn't that pertinent when you have 1 in the decisive break of 3. A lot of things come into play near the end of a race with one of them being who has the best legs at that point. While Sanchez and Valverde were in the final 10, Valverde had made it plain to Sanchez and the team that he didn't have the best legs and the man he was shadowing, Cunego, obviously didn't either. Rodriguez while in the final 3 was cooked from his day of aggressive riding. I haven't heard any after race details analysis/details from the Russians/Kolobnev. The Spanish rode the most important part of the race as it should have been ridden. With Rodriguez up ahead in the final selection with Evans and Kolobnev they couldn't jump on the front to bridge-to block yes-not to bridge. The fact that Evans rode away from Kolobnev and Rodriguez just showed he was the strongest at that decisive moment and in the position to make the most of it.

The Italians rode an aggressive race but appeared to simply not have anyone that was having a great day. The course may have been too difficult with all the climbing for Ballan to truly have been a factor.


Sounds more like a whole lot of Spanish hating going on with a blind eye to the facts.

+1
Good analysis and certainly Italy did a lot this year to ride an aggressive race. Unfortunately for them it didn't work. Spain did what they could to counter the moves leaving little opportunity to execute an aggressive move of their own.
Most experts agreed before the race that it was more a race for the strong than a tactical one. Evans fortunately made a good move and in one race and be strong enough to get a win.
Because this doesn't happen often I think the Australian fans want to make whatever they can out of it and not let the truth get in the way. Don't want that to sound critical and think that is a natural reaction
Most of the spanish and italian riders are aggressive generally in most races including this one which is why they get the most wins every year. Maybe in Australia the coverage of the race only came on in the last hour or something and they missed some of the earlier action as well.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I am not flaming here but I think you are doing a great disservice to Cadel by saying he was the strongest and smartest.

I would certainly agree that he rode a very smart finale but IMO both Cancellara and Kolobnev were stronger - which for me makes his victory more impressive.

By saying Cadel was the strongest & smartest would imply that out of the group he was expected to win.

He didn't panic when he was slightly behind on the second last climb then he followed the moves by the Spanish and when the opportunity arose and others hesitated he gave it 100% on the final climb to create the decisive gap - which for me was what made the race exciting and satisfying.

Cadel was definetly stronger than Kolobnev. From the 2nd last time check where FC attacked with SS, evans actually gained on them on the final split which was the finish line. i would probably say evans was equal with cancellara but evans made his effort/attack at the right time and cancellara wasted himself on the first climb trying to split it all up on the descent and the first climb.

Just to let you guys know that was my 1000th post.

 

[TRDean]

Agreed.
The spainiards placed. The italians screwed it up big time and ran out of legs. Why would Sanchez or valverde jump out of the group when they had Rodriguez in the lead group. even so, SS and AV didn't have it and neither did Cunego so that's why they just "wheel sucked" because they were just hoping for FC to chase then finish it off in the sprint.

The term wheel sucked is way over used on these forums....I don't think any of the guys that were around near the end were true wheel suckers. That was a heck of a hard race...just because one isn't constantly attacking off the front does not automatically mean they are a wheel sucker. Being able to hang on those climbs proved that none of those guys was weak...none of them. Wheel sucking has such a negative connotation...one which Evans constantly lives with...which is wrong.

 

[TRDean]

Cadel was definetly stronger than Kolobnev. From the 2nd last time check where FC attacked with SS, evans actually gained on them on the final split which was the finish line. i would probably say evans was equal with cancellara but evans made his effort/attack at the right time and cancellara wasted himself on the first climb trying to split it all up on the descent and the first climb.

Just to let you guys know that was my 1000th post.

I don't agree here...If the small group had kept the pace high on the second to last climb...Evans would not have even been there...he was actually dropped from that group...them not putting the hammer down allowed CE to get back on...which is when he took full advantage of the situation. Good for him!! But to say he was stronger than Kolobnev? Maybe, but only marginally so.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

NOBODY BUT NOBODY WORKED WITH FABIAN!!! That guy pulled everyone, and the Spanish riders - as they always do - just sat and waited for someone else to pull them up! Sanchez did nothing and then sprinted by Fabian for 4th...how pathetic! The Italians did not do much more.
I wasn't a big fan of the Spanish vacuums before, and less now!

Fabian's biggest problem was that HE was the strongest, and everyone knew it!

Congrats Cadel...when you attacked, you did not look back, just gave it your all!!

Maybe(after Fabian beat everybody else in the TT by MINUTES), they knew something you or I didn't?

 

[auscyclefan94]

+1
Good analysis and certainly Italy did a lot this year to ride an aggressive race. Unfortunately for them it didn't work. Spain did what they could to counter the moves leaving little opportunity to execute an aggressive move of their own.
Most experts agreed before the race that it was more a race for the strong than a tactical one. Evans fortunately made a good move and in one race and be strong enough to get a win.
Because this doesn't happen often I think the Australian fans want to make whatever they can out of it and not let the truth get in the way. Don't want that to sound critical and think that is a natural reaction
Most of the spanish and italian riders are aggressive generally in most races including this one which is why they get the most wins every year. Maybe in Australia the coverage of the race only came on in the last hour or something and they missed some of the earlier action as well.

That's exactly what happened.. We had the first two hours and the last hour. I watched the middle part on the net.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I don't agree here...If the small group had kept the pace high on the second to last climb...Evans would not have even been there...he was actually dropped from that group...them not putting the hammer down allowed CE to get back on...which is when he took full advantage of the situation. Good for him!! But to say he was stronger than Kolobnev? Maybe, but only marginally so.

Evans wasn't dropped. he was caughht behind in the split so he had to bridge across.

 

[TRDean]

Evans wasn't dropped. he was caughht behind in the split so he had to bridge across.

bad tactics...dropped...same thing....

 

[auscyclefan94]

bad tactics...dropped...same thing....

not really, gerrans was in the front part of the group but couldn't hold onto Cancellara's pace so dropped back. evans had to bridge over. It wasn't really bad tatics.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Cadel was definetly stronger than Kolobnev. From the 2nd last time check where FC attacked with SS, evans actually gained on them on the final split which was the finish line. i would probably say evans was equal with cancellara but evans made his effort/attack at the right time and cancellara wasted himself on the first climb trying to split it all up on the descent and the first climb.

Just to let you guys know that was my 1000th post.

1000th post...... since Sunday?(jk)

Seriously - I went back on to Universal and had a look at the second last climb. Vino was caught and unceremoniously dropped by Kolobnev.
Cadel is right at the front of the chasing pack when Canc puts the hammer down - there is a split as everyone tries to grab wheels - with one group of three just behind the Canc group and then on his own is Cadel at 5 secs.

Also have a look again at the last climb - Cadel makes his move when the two others hesitate - smart move- and they wait too long before they start to chase.
It is Kolobnev who starts to chase and he cuts in to Cadels lead on the climb but then blows up. Perhaps if Kolobnev hadn't attacked so hard on the penultimate climb he might have had more in the tank.

Thats why I say Kolobnev was stronger - but Cadel rode a much smarter race.

 

[auscyclefan94]

1000th post...... since Sunday?(jk)

Seriously - I went back on to Universal and had a look at the second last climb. Vino was caught and unceremoniously dropped by Kolobnev.
Cadel is right at the front of the chasing pack when Canc puts the hammer down - there is a split as everyone tries to grab wheels - with one group of three just behind the Canc group and then on his own is Cadel at 5 secs.

Also have a look again at the last climb - Cadel makes his move when the two others hesitate - smart move- and they wait too long before they start to chase.
It is Kolobnev who starts to chase and he cuts in to Cadels lead on the climb but then blows up. Perhaps if Kolobnev hadn't attacked so hard on the penultimate climb he might have had more in the tank.

Thats why I say Kolobnev was stronger - but Cadel rode a much smarter race.

It was definetly gerrans who was up the front as it was a more fluid taller rider on the biker.

 

[nslckevin]

So this so-called "weakest, most tired rider" was apparently the strongest Spaniard that day based on his aggressive riding and podium finish. Mounting an ill-fated chase of Evans would only have pulled the Italians, Cancellara and whoever else was left in that last 10.

Of the three up front he was the weakest and most tired due to his 100km in the break.

How did they know they were going to get beat? Rodriguez was there. Apparently the only rider with legs comparable to Rodriguez at that time was Sanchez and his position was such that even had he been able to bridge to the Evans/Kolobnev/Rodriguez trio the effort would have left him with nothing left to battle Evans and Kolobnev for the win, not to mention THE ITALIANS AND CANCELLARA THAT HE WOULD HAVE DRAGGED WITH HIM. (Not yelling just capitalized to reiterate a point that has been made throughout this thread).

Did you completely ignore the part where Valverde was cooked?
[/QUOTE\

Yes, Valverde was cooked, but he was good enough to hang on and likely could have sacrificed himself for SANCHEZ who should have been the protected rider at that point.

When Evans left Kolobev and Rodriguez, they should have at least changed tactics.

A podium spot is better than none at all. The Italians are the losers here. They have nothing to show for their efforts. Such is one day races, it doesn't always work out as is predicted.

Yes a podium is better than nothing, but they had THREE RIDERS in that group. Also, the race is for the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, not for a podium spot. With three in the final group, getting the last step on the podium is not a "good" result. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't suck. The Spanish riders aren't losers, but with three riders in the final group the expectation should be higher.

In the context of the whole race, sure the Italians came out worse than the Spanish, but in the context of the last lap, the Spanish underperformed.

Question for you: If Sanchez came to the line with any variation of that group what would you say his chances were of winning? I'd say VERY good. He's a good rider. Was Cancellara going to beat him in the sprint? Evans? Maybe Cunego, but Sanchez had two team mates!!! What are his chances of winning if he's 30 seconds behind? Zero.

Maybe that is just all they had? If so, then you get what you've got the legs for on the day and you have to be satisfied. But I don't think Sanchez was cooked and I imagine that Valverde at least had something left to help the cause, even if he couldn't win. If Sanchez had the legs to win, then they blew the tactics. Cancellara had the legs to win also if it went right and he messed up the tactics. One five second effort (if that) would have killed that break before it started. But he played chicken with Cunego, Gilbert, etc. and lost.

Kevin

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It was definetly gerrans who was up the front as it was a more fluid taller rider on the biker.

When Vino and Hoogerland are caught by the group just before Canc puts the hammer down Gerrans is right at the front - but Evans is there too.

 

[auscyclefan94]

When Vino and Hoogerland are caught by the group just before Canc puts the hammer down Gerrans is right at the front - but Evans is there too.

evans is further back but i'll agree to disagree. Don't want to fight with you
Watch out for an idiot called litian who is flogging his crap on this cycling forum. Report him as i have

 

[Dr. Maserati]

evans is further back but i'll agree to disagree. Don't want to fight with you
Watch out for an idiot called litian who is flogging his crap on this cycling forum. Report him as i have

Spotted it - and the Mods are right on it!

Gerrans was on the right - of the road not the picture - CE was on the other slightly behind.
In fact I think when Canc goes it is Simon who is the '9th man' but he is passed and cant hold on to Cadel.

I am not suggesting Cadel wasnt strong, just I think that Kolobnev was stronger than Cadel - but that is what makes Cycling such a wonderful sport -it can be won by a smarter rider using their tactical judgement.