Is anyone not a Fan of anyone?

[PatrickLeeds]

Apologies if this has been done before, I am trying to find my legs on here.

Are the overwhelming majority of the posters on here fans of a particular rider? I find it quite hard to read threads when I have no idea if the posts are objective or subjective, and I imagine the only way to work out whether what is being said is one or the other is to already know 'Ahh MemberX is a huge fan of Joe Bloggs and will always interpret everything he does subjectively' or 'MemberY hates Jim Smith and will put the worst spin on everything he does regardless'

I first started watching the Tour when it first came on Channel 4 in the UK , after really enjoying the Track cycling at the previous Olympics. I had Zero idea what was going on, who was who or why - but I was hypnotised by the beauty of movement, the crowds, the landscape and the whole aura of a wonderful event. After every stage I was happy, regardless of who won or who lost. I have always had a soft spot for Ligget and Sherwin 'cos it was them who took the trouble to explain to a clueless watcher why and what things were. (I get the impression they talked a lot less nonsense back then than they did in later years).

Now, as a Brit, I found this way of watching a sport delightful - Brits back then were accustomed to being told it was REALLYIMPORTANT THAT WE WIN - and then watching sport with a sick feeling in the pit of their stomach. Watching a British National Team in most sports involved waiting, waiting for them to either look useless from the start and lose horribly, or even worse, have a chance of success and fail to take it. After most events I would go to bed slightly less drunk than I wanted to be, trying to convince myself I didn't care that they had lost... again.

With cycling I realised that sport was better if you genuinely tried to enjoy the sport. Not caring if a particular rider won or lost. Since there was no weight of expectation on any British Rider to do more than shine on the odd stage, this was even easier!

I stopped watching it halfway through Indurain's reign as it was too predictably dull really, and didn't start again until the tail end of Lance's 'rule', so suspect I dodged the bullet there - but when I started watching again I made a conscious effort to NOT root for, say, Cadel Evans in the way a lot of Brit Sports fans do - "Is there a British Hopeful? No? OK.... Is there a hopeful from one of the countries with a Union Jack on his flag? Not this year. OK.... anyone from a country that speaks English? "Yay! Go Rider I Never Heard Of Before!" and by NOT caring who wins, once again I love it - and I had tried to teach my daughters to treat it the same way - and yet suddenly I find then booing Contador and cheering Chavez, for no reason I can work out. It really annoys the hell out of me! I was watching stage 15 of the Vuelta, laughing with pleasure at the perfectly planned and executed ambush and whooping with pleasure to see a race people had been writing off as 'Over' after stage 1 come back to life, and my bloody kids were bitching at Contador taking back time, while cheering Quintana gaining it. God it was annoying!

I don't care who wins, I genuinely don't - and I wonder - am I alone in here? Anyone else just enjoy it for the pleasure of watching?

Pat

 

[King Boonen]

I'm a fan of good racing. There are certain riders I like and certain ones I dislike for a whole myriad of reasons, many of which can only be discussed elsewhere, but I always try and be objective and don't really care who wins as long as they do it in an interesting way. It's one of the reasons why I only used to watch football when a team like Arsenal was playing. What Contador and Quintana did was fantastic and made a potentially terrible stage brilliant, that's what I like to see/read about.

Sounds like a similar way to how I would like my daughter to appreciate cycling. Don't attach emotions to particular people, attach them to the actual sport/lifestyle (I treat cycling as a lifestyle rather than a sport when I do it. Sounds pretentious but what I mean is I do it for the love of being out on a bike, I'm not out training to race or desperate to beat Strava KOMs or anything).

 

[barmaher]

First of all, I think this forum is (for the most part) great. I was always into cycling, in that I would have watched the Tour, monuments and WCRR, tried to keep abreast of the other GTs and the classics. But really, I think I would have known very little about riders apart from the top 10-15 guys.

Discovering this forum has educated me a huge amount, and also helped foster an appreciation for aspects of cycling that had previously passed me by. Such as tracing routes, cycling history and tracking the development of young talent.

However the single thing that annoys me about this site is the endless discussions people have about their favourite riders, and pointless debates about what a 2014 Nibali would have done vs 2012 Froome if Contador hadn't broken his leg or if Froome hadn't looked at his stem or if Valverde hadn't ridden like an *** or Quintana hadn't sucked wheels or if Contador had a stronger team or so-and-so couldn't even drop Contador in the 2010 Dauphiné or Quintana only wins races that are neutralised or Nibali's palamares are better than Valverde's or Contador doesn't get on well with so-and-so or Froome is a skybot or Contador isn't as good a bike handler as Froome or Valverde's palmares are so much better than Nibali's, how can you even think that or Froome is killing cycling or Froome looks like an alien or Contador is gorgeous looking or Nibali is going to blitz everyone or Contador lost 2 seconds on a 1km climb OMG, or do you remember the time when Nibali climbed v Contador in that tour and there was a bike length between them, that means that my guy was going to smoke your guy.....or whatever..

Some of this stuff might have been original or interesting the first time it was discussed. But holy smokes, it is tiresome now.

Anyway, in answer to your question, I don't really root for a particular rider.

I have a soft spot for Roche and Dan Martin as they're Irish, but I fully recognise that they are hardly the most entertaining bike riders.

I generally like to see excellence on a bike, and also attacking racing. So I would have a more natural affinity for guys like Contador, Cancellara, Boonen, but I don't really have a favourite.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I'm a fan of good racing. There are certain riders I like and certain ones I dislike for a whole myriad of reasons, many of which can only be discussed elsewhere, but I always try and be objective and don't really care who wins as long as they do it in an interesting way. It's one of the reasons why I only used to watch football when a team like Arsenal was playing. What Contador and Quintana did was fantastic and made a potentially terrible stage brilliant, that's what I like to see/read about.

Sounds like a similar way to how I would like my daughter to appreciate cycling. Don't attach emotions to particular people, attach them to the actual sport/lifestyle (I treat cycling as a lifestyle rather than a sport when I do it. Sounds pretentious but what I mean is I do it for the love of being out on a bike, I'm not out training to race or desperate to beat Strava KOMs or anything).

This sums me up as well. Not a dedicated fan of anyone, but have some preferences and dislikes. To be honest, I've always found it a bit strange to be such a strong fan of one individual rider and for their experiences to pretty much shape your enjoyment, or otherwise, of the sport.

 

[Brullnux]

I'm a big fan of anyone in my CQ team.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Apologies if this has been done before, I am trying to find my legs on here.

Are the overwhelming majority of the posters on here fans of a particular rider? I find it quite hard to read threads when I have no idea if the posts are objective or subjective, and I imagine the only way to work out whether what is being said is one or the other is to already know 'Ahh MemberX is a huge fan of Joe Bloggs and will always interpret everything he does subjectively' or 'MemberY hates Jim Smith and will put the worst spin on everything he does regardless'

I first started watching the Tour when it first came on Channel 4 in the UK , after really enjoying the Track cycling at the previous Olympics. I had Zero idea what was going on, who was who or why - but I was hypnotised by the beauty of movement, the crowds, the landscape and the whole aura of a wonderful event. After every stage I was happy, regardless of who won or who lost. I have always had a soft spot for Ligget and Sherwin 'cos it was them who took the trouble to explain to a clueless watcher why and what things were. (I get the impression they talked a lot less nonsense back then than they did in later years).

Now, as a Brit, I found this way of watching a sport delightful - Brits back then were accustomed to being told it was REALLYIMPORTANT THAT WE WIN - and then watching sport with a sick feeling in the pit of their stomach. Watching a British National Team in most sports involved waiting, waiting for them to either look useless from the start and lose horribly, or even worse, have a chance of success and fail to take it. After most events I would go to bed slightly less drunk than I wanted to be, trying to convince myself I didn't care that they had lost... again.

With cycling I realised that sport was better if you genuinely tried to enjoy the sport. Not caring if a particular rider won or lost. Since there was no weight of expectation on any British Rider to do more than shine on the odd stage, this was even easier!

I stopped watching it halfway through Indurain's reign as it was too predictably dull really, and didn't start again until the tail end of Lance's 'rule', so suspect I dodged the bullet there - but when I started watching again I made a conscious effort to NOT root for, say, Cadel Evans in the way a lot of Brit Sports fans do - "Is there a British Hopeful? No? OK.... Is there a hopeful from one of the countries with a Union Jack on his flag? Not this year. OK.... anyone from a country that speaks English? "Yay! Go Rider I Never Heard Of Before!" and by NOT caring who wins, once again I love it - and I had tried to teach my daughters to treat it the same way - and yet suddenly I find then booing Contador and cheering Chavez, for no reason I can work out. It really annoys the hell out of me! I was watching stage 15 of the Vuelta, laughing with pleasure at the perfectly planned and executed ambush and whooping with pleasure to see a race people had been writing off as 'Over' after stage 1 come back to life, and my bloody kids were bitching at Contador taking back time, while cheering Quintana gaining it. God it was annoying!

I don't care who wins, I genuinely don't - and I wonder - am I alone in here? Anyone else just enjoy it for the pleasure of watching?

Pat

I genuinely don't care what nation a rider is from. for instance my 3 favorite riders of all time are pantani, vino and rujano. in that order and I'm dutch. I do however have serious preferences. I really hate froome and cavendish for instance and quite some more in a lesser way, like greipel. I also have riders who I prefer to win, most definitely sagan. when vino retired it was a real blow to me as I had no rider to be a real fan of, but sagan is filling that up somewhat

but above all I care for amazing racing. I couldn't care one bit for hayman until this years roubaix in which at the end I was rooting for him because him winning would tell the best story of that race and most amazing performance. to me that was like watching 7 hours of porn. one of the best races ever. but then 2 days ago, was just as amazing

 

[Ramon Koran]

I support winners but I don't dislike riders who don't win, if I rider starts winning on a regular basis I will support him regardless. So in the end I support a lot of people and don't anyone as if they started winning I would end up backtracking

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I support winners but I don't dislike riders who don't win, if I rider starts winning on a regular basis I will support him regardless. So in the end I support a lot of people and don't anyone as if they started winning I would end up backtracking

That's taking glory-hunting to a ridiculous level. I thought all these die-hard Sagan, Contador and Froome fanboys were bad enough in that regard, but that takes it to new heights.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

I'm a fan of good racing. There are certain riders I like and certain ones I dislike for a whole myriad of reasons, many of which can only be discussed elsewhere, but I always try and be objective and don't really care who wins as long as they do it in an interesting way. It's one of the reasons why I only used to watch football when a team like Arsenal was playing. What Contador and Quintana did was fantastic and made a potentially terrible stage brilliant, that's what I like to see/read about.

Sounds like a similar way to how I would like my daughter to appreciate cycling. Don't attach emotions to particular people, attach them to the actual sport/lifestyle (I treat cycling as a lifestyle rather than a sport when I do it. Sounds pretentious but what I mean is I do it for the love of being out on a bike, I'm not out training to race or desperate to beat Strava KOMs or anything).

Pretty much this.
I also like cycling because I get to see many different regions. No other sport has that, I believe.

 

[SafeBet]

Re:

I'm a fan of good racing. There are certain riders I like and certain ones I dislike for a whole myriad of reasons, many of which can only be discussed elsewhere, but I always try and be objective and don't really care who wins as long as they do it in an interesting way.

This is very close to how I feel watching a cycling race, although I gotta say the riders I really like are many more than the riders I dislike. I used to be a nationalistic type of fan, partly because many of the entertaining riders of the 90s were from Italy, but this changed as I started to understand cycling more. Now I find myself cheering for riders coming from any country. I have a soft spot for African and Japanese riders and I keep following Italian riders very closely, especially the youngsters.

Anyway I have a huge respect for this sport and for virtually every rider out there.

 

[PatrickLeeds]

Re:

However the single thing that annoys me about this site is the endless discussions people have about their favourite riders, and pointless debates about what a.........

I don't HATE that - for some people that's their way of getting some pleasure out of the sport, and who am I to tell you 'You are enjoying yourself wrong!'

What bugs me is the discussion of Incidents, events or moments where it goes like this.

Rider A picks up shovel, hits rider B over head during stage. Rider C calls Rider A an arse

'Ahh rider B deserved it - you saw him earlier on pushing Rider J over a cliff
'WTF? Rider J jumped over that cliff, he left a note and everything, and what the hell has J got to do with A or B?'
'No, that's not true, Rider A forged the note. And Rider J has always hated rider A'

I deliberately chose a ridiculous situation, but you know what I mean. How much of the 'Should 2/3rds of the Peloton have been DQ'd' discussion' is objective? Very little. And HATING riders? What has anyone done to deserve HATE? (Don't answer that, I am being rhetorical!)

Of course everyone prefers some people to others, thats nature. I like Quintana, I like Chavez, and I like Yates. But I am not going to defend Yates if he shoots the pope, or Chavez if he pulls out a sword mid-stage and starts stabbing spectators. Surely there has to be some sort of objectivity or the whole thing turns into the sort of stuff you get in Political discussions - 'My Rider Right or Wrong'

 

[RedheadDane]

Well, I'm a fan of everyone!
Sure, I guess when I first started really watching my focus was mostly on the Danes, as well as the riders on CSC/Saxo, but gradually I began realising that those things are really stupid reasons to root for someone. Especially when people seemed to change their opinions on riders from fans to "anti-fans" simply if they changed teams. (Yeah, I'm talking about the whole Leopard Trek thing.)
I do actually sometimes cheer for a rider I've never heard about before; if he's doing something really amazing.
This, of course, also means that I sometimes find myself in situations where I'm practically cheering for multiple people at the same time.

Well... those are some interesting examples up there! :lol:

 

[jsem94]

Have always had a favorite more or less.

Paolo Betting, Oscar Freire and Samuel Sanchez when I first started watching.

In recent years Contador and Nibali do it for me. Love their approach, laying it all on the road. Box office.

I also like GVA. He's always on the move and his grinning is spectacular. I also love workhorses like Zeits, Navardauskas, Vandenbergh. And last but not least Tom fn Dumoulin.

 

[PremierAndrew]

I don't understand people being obsessed with certain riders to the point where they'd rather see a boring race with that guy winning in place of a thrilling race with that guy losing. That said I also don't understand how you can not prefer certain riders over others if you watch enough cycling

 

[MacBAir]

Almost everybody here is a fan of great racing and cycling as a sport. Of course, we all have our favorites.
The thing about cycling is that people that follow it can "fall in love" for it, and become too much attached to a particular rider, or a particular situation.

Me, sometimes I let my inner irrational fanboyish dude take control under certain situations, because cycling can make me emotional. Despite being a very tough, scientific sport, the emotions and beauty of it bring a lot of subjectivity to the table. I will try to explain it with 2 examples.

1. Sunday's Vuelta stage. It was an amazing stage that had it all, and perfectly summarized why cycling is so amazing. You had a lot of courage, panache, talent, suffering, tactical acumen, drama and so on. I liked it so much, and became so emotional and sad watching it, because I knew that Contador was doing it for us. He was going to gain nothing but remind us why he is so amazing and different. Old school on a modern era. In fact, he definitely lost any hope of wining that race in order to give us a show.

It touched me so much, that I became angry at him for doing that. I can't explain it. He is a champion. I want him to be a champion, not to do these moves in order to gain "respect" only he thinks he lost, after his suspension. As such, and in order to not get that much involved, I adopted this "view", where I joked about him being a coward and selling the vuelta to a wheelsucker like Quintana, where I knew inside that Alberto is a champion above "results" and "palmares", because of performances like these, and Quintana is a stonecold tough SoB, and did what he had to do, like always, and Froome is a fantastic, attacking, tough rider too

2. What is winning? What are wins? The thing about cycling is that wins, by themselves, mean nothing if you enjoy the sport. For example, Sagan winning a monument has nothing to do with Gerrans winning the same monument. Sagan is the kind of rider that in order to win, has to be absolutely superior to anyone else, be at least as smart at everybody else, have a team that can deliver him to a point where he can make his gamble, and have a lot of luck. Racing situations dictate that. A lesser rider might win because of it, and that is what make a Sagan win or a Cancellara win so special. Same for the whole wheelsuckers Vs aggressive riders debate. We only value aggressive riders because of the wheelsuckers. Both are fundamental for this sport. Who is going to take Sagan to the line if they can avoid it? Who is going to cooperate with Peter?

That's why Gerrans has 2 monuments to his name, and Sagan has one. Who is the best classics rider? Who makes races? People have different views, but specially now in the modern era you can't compare the worth of a rider to another rider based on wins alone. There's a lot more to it.

How do you value Sagan's tour win against Froome, Vs Kittel's win? Again, in another sport they are worth the same. Not in cycling. Not to cycling fans. I love this sport.

I seriously believe that with the exception of the clinic 12 that just want to see the world burn (even if factually correct, most of the time), even the most hardcore fanboys here smile when they see a great win, by one of the riders they SAY they don't like. We, as cycling fans, love cycling and great wins, no matter who. I am a big Boonen fan, but who didn't love PR?

HAVING SAID THAT, IF SAGAN DOESN'T WIN THE WORLDS BECAUSE GVA SUCKED HIS WHEEL LIKE HE DID THIS WHOLE YEAR IN ANY SINGLE RACE THEY COMPETED IN, BE IT IN TIRRENO, TO CALIFORNIA, TO ANY SEMi CLASSIC, LIKE BABIES SUCK THEIR MOM'S BREASTS, EVEN IF HE BRINGS THE EXCUSE OF HAVING BOONEN FAR BACK (THAT WOULD LOSE THE SPRINT, ANYWAY) I WILL RIOT AND BE AGAINST HIM AND BELGIANS IN GENERAL UNTIL THE DAY I DIE! SOME SMART AND BEAUTIFUL FANS CALL THAT THE "FRANZ FERDINAND ASSASSINATION" SCENARIO!

 

[PatrickLeeds]

Re:

2. What is winning? What are wins? The thing about cycling is that wins, by themselves, mean nothing if you enjoy the sport. For example, Sagan winning a monument has nothing to do with Gerrans winning the same monument. Sagan is the kind of rider that in order to win, has to be absolutely superior to anyone else, be at least as smart at everybody else, have a team that can deliver him to a point where he can make his gamble, and have a lot of luck. Racing situations dictate that. A lesser rider might win because of it, and that is what make a Sagan win or a Cancellara win so special. Same for the whole wheelsuckers Vs aggressive riders debate. We only value aggressive riders because of the wheelsuckers. Both are fundamental for this sport. Who is going to take Sagan to the line if they can avoid it? Who is going to cooperate with Peter?......................How do you value Sagan's tour win against Froome, Vs Kittel's win? Again, in another sport they are worth the same. Not in cycling. Not to cycling fans. I love this sport.

Good Point movingly made. I was cheering for Wiggins in 2012 in a way I could never cheer for Froome, despite them both using the same general approach to winning the 'same' race. Not because I like one and dislike the other.... Grand Tours are never 'The Same Race' are they?

Though your 'shouty edit remix' rather spoiled your post's air of thoughtful moderation

 

[MacBAir]

Re: Re:

2. What is winning? What are wins? The thing about cycling is that wins, by themselves, mean nothing if you enjoy the sport. For example, Sagan winning a monument has nothing to do with Gerrans winning the same monument. Sagan is the kind of rider that in order to win, has to be absolutely superior to anyone else, be at least as smart at everybody else, have a team that can deliver him to a point where he can make his gamble, and have a lot of luck. Racing situations dictate that. A lesser rider might win because of it, and that is what make a Sagan win or a Cancellara win so special. Same for the whole wheelsuckers Vs aggressive riders debate. We only value aggressive riders because of the wheelsuckers. Both are fundamental for this sport. Who is going to take Sagan to the line if they can avoid it? Who is going to cooperate with Peter?......................How do you value Sagan's tour win against Froome, Vs Kittel's win? Again, in another sport they are worth the same. Not in cycling. Not to cycling fans. I love this sport.

Good Point movingly made. I was cheering for Wiggins in 2012 in a way I could never cheer for Froome, despite them both using the same general approach to winning the 'same' race. Not because I like one and dislike the other.... Grand Tours are never 'The Same Race' are they?

Exactly. And despite thinking that Froome is a superior GC rider (even in 2012), Wiggins winning the tour after being a track specialist with many gold medals and a totally different background, makes his win totally different than a Froome tour win. They are the same race win, but different achievement at the same time.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

I genuinely don't care what nation a rider is from.

 

[Gigs_98]

I'm generally a very emotional sports fan, therfore I basically need athletes I can root for to make the sport interesting. For example the championsleague finals 2015 and 2016 were really boring for me because I didn't care who wins. Unfortunately that also means that I often start disliking riders if they ride against my favorites. Thats not something I like about myself but something I simply can't control. However I can still appreciate what these riders are doing and although I don't like froome I have to say that he was both the best and the most entertaining rider of the tour de france this year.

About the discussing. Well, I understand that it seems strange to many people that we discuss over and over again about who was better better in race x and who would have won race y if rider A wouldn't have had bad luck and rider B would have attacked since that would have cracked rider C and we don't even know how riding race x influenced rider D in race y. This speculation is what makes this forum so interesting for me since I always read about new opinions about a topic which change my opinion over and over again too.

 

[PatrickLeeds]

and the most entertaining rider of the tour de france this year.

ARE YOU *** INSANE? ANY FOOL KNOWS THAT JOE BLOW WAS FAR MORE ENTERTAINING AND THAT..... nah just kidding. He was oddly entertaining, and it made a a nice change, but he didn't have much competition did he?

I don't think the '"Could the '03 Maurice Garin have beaten Chavez without the 'Hitching the lifts on a train' thing this time?" discussions are wrong or silly, I can see the pleasure - It's when members have a 'Garin will BURY Chavez tomorrow' knee-jerk even though Garin is actually, you know, dead? 'Doesn't matter, he will win 'cos I like him and he's the best!' sort of attitude. Makes discussion pointless, just 198 gangs shouting insults at each other in the yard.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

I support winners but I don't dislike riders who don't win, if I rider starts winning on a regular basis I will support him regardless. So in the end I support a lot of people and don't anyone as if they started winning I would end up backtracking

That's taking glory-hunting to a ridiculous level. I thought all these die-hard Sagan, Contador and Froome fanboys were bad enough in that regard, but that takes it to new heights.

Hey hey being a Contador fan now isn't the same as in 2008-2009

Now it's actually more exciting, at some point it just boring, him winning all the time

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

If you make the race entertaining I like you. Vino, Pantani, Contador, Nibali etc.
I do have a weakness for Kazakh riders though, due to Vino and Kash bac in the day.

 

[PatrickLeeds]

Re: Re:

Hey hey being a Contador fan now isn't the same as in 2008-2009

Now it's actually more exciting, at some point it just boring, him winning all the time

That's the spirit!

 

[BigMac]

I'm not a fan of riders with snobbish vibes and those who do not take their job seriously.

That said, I do have my favourite riders and usually root for them, but won't be bothered if they're outclassed on the day. Kudos to whoever won.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I genuinely don't care what nation a rider is from.

yes they generally have the most talent and are the best riders but I don't care much for uran for instance or duarte or several more in the past as well like pena