Is Armstrong a psychopath?

[Mambo95]

And vice versa?

They apparently can also be dismissed by someone that has no idea what they are talking about.

Dave.

Yes, vice versa.

But someone on another thread (not me) who appeared a little more clued up than the average poster (from a family of psychiatrists) poured a lot of scorn on the idea.

 

[VeloFidelis]

That's pretty much sums it up for me too.


As to the OP's point.

Is LA a psychopath? No
Is LA a sociopath? No
Can the Hare questions be interpreted by someone who has no idea what they are talking about to show that he is both? Absolutely.

You are correct on your former assertion. The latter is yet to be determined. I can tell you as someone who has both met, and negotiated business with Mr. Armstrong prior to his TDF notoriety; he does not process thought the same way that most of us do.

 

[Murray]

Unless you are a psychiatric professional and interviewed the subject to make this diagnosis, you have no basis to make these claims.

 

[skippythepinhead]

i think antilance means that in your mind LA is already in jail,you dont need closed case,you just know that he has done everything u read or everything that has been said by hamilton,andreu,his wife,other ppl i dont even remember

and if someone has different opinion what u do? u start to ridicule the poster as you showed in your next post

while i believe LA took PED (like the majority of peloton in last 20 years) i am nowhere near to accept automaticaly that everything i read in newspapers is true because it fits my case,also it would never occured to me to start threads like is LA psycopath or campaign against his sponsors...WTF is that? it sooooo way out of proportion

the best part ofc is that while many ppl pingpong their own theories about LA which being theories are probably nowhere near truth,in the same time those ppl are fans of other sports star that are guilty of same "crimes" as LA

when first accusations came from various sources i didnt believe it,then with landis etc. i began to think theres something wrong and LA should be punished (like other dopers)...but the more i read stupid haters not only on this forum who are taking it too far the more i want the investigation to be closed with no evidence of wrongdoin...that day i will laugh my a55 off

I appreciate your response. I'd like to address your points in detail but I have to mow the lawn and cut down some trees.

I can cut to the chase though, and say that I will be convinced Lance is at least borderline sociopath if it does turn out that he was lying under oath and he used the powers of his legal team to sue and quash people who were actually truthful and accurate in their statements and reporting--not that it matters what he is or is not clinically.

It's a discussion. If you don't like it, don't engage. And certainly don't try to prove your intellectual superiority based on your ability to spell or I'll pull out my 3rd place Vermont State Spelling Bee Certificate and trump your spellchecking behind.

 

[blutto]

i think antilance means that in your mind LA is already in jail,you dont need closed case,you just know that he has done everything u read or everything that has been said by hamilton,andreu,his wife,other ppl i dont even remember

and if someone has different opinion what u do? u start to ridicule the poster as you showed in your next post

while i believe LA took PED (like the majority of peloton in last 20 years) i am nowhere near to accept automaticaly that everything i read in newspapers is true because it fits my case,also it would never occured to me to start threads like is LA psycopath or campaign against his sponsors...WTF is that? it sooooo way out of proportion

the best part ofc is that while many ppl pingpong their own theories about LA which being theories are probably nowhere near truth,in the same time those ppl are fans of other sports star that are guilty of same "crimes" as LA

when first accusations came from various sources i didnt believe it,then with landis etc. i began to think theres something wrong and LA should be punished (like other dopers)...but the more i read stupid haters not only on this forum who are taking it too far the more i want the investigation to be closed with no evidence of wrongdoin...that day i will laugh my a55 off

...when I first came onto this forum I think I would have been lumped in with the Lance detractors...but after being exposed to haters on this form my position has morphed into something akin to your position....nice exposition of a view that isn't seen much here ( and maybe should be...but hey, this forum is the domain of righteous, say sanctimonious warriors, fighting for the one true faith...Jacobins all...and by the time this battle has finally ground to a halt it will just another example of the scorched earth tactic...no real winners but lots of losers...and the cycling community being first and foremost among those losers...)...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Mambo95]

You are correct on your former assertion. The latter is yet to be determined. I can tell you as someone who has both met, and negotiated business with Mr. Armstrong prior to his TDF notoriety; he does not process thought the same way that most of us do.

I generally agree with you. Most world class sportsmen have some sort of psychological 'malfunction'. Some turn it on and off (a two time Olympian friend of mine (not cycling) was a real Jeckyll and Hyde character - often called 'white line fever').

Narcisistic and selfish - certainly. The mental aspect of sport is still vastly underrated. But to bandy around terms like psychopath and sociopath is cheap, ignorant and unpleasant.

 

[arrhythmia rules]

Lance has been a lying, nasty, vindictive, extremely powerful and negative (in terms of doping) pro cyclist. He has done far more damage over doping than any other rider or team manager in the peleton.
Whether being lying, nasty and extremely vindictive makes him a psychopath I do not know. It certainly shows him to be socially irresponsible.
It does make it important to bring him down, to remove the legacy he has left behind him.
It is important to the future of cycling and for all those caught up and damaged in the current and future of cycling and sport.
It is also socially good to bring out the truth over someone who has so flagrantly lied and deceived for his own gain in such a way: including much of the Livestrong brand and even his cancer work.
I do not know Lance, I might find him a nice guy. However I do know that Lance the phenomenon is largely negative and it will benefit us all and cycling in particular if it is shown in its true light.

So I am not anti Lance just want such public deceit and damaging anti social behaviours to receive their due deserts. This will at best be partial but there is a good start being made.

 

[movingtarget]

The vendettas and vindictiveness of some people on here are funny and sad. I troll these threads and am amazed at the hate people spew. Whether the criticism and accusations are warranted or not, some people need to spend more time on their bike and less time posting inane threads.

Interesting .........no. The so called cycling know alls became doping know alls then legal know alls and now psychiatric know alls. What next, the examination of Armstrong excreta from restaurant bathrooms. The relations with his pets. An alien probe is responsible for his powers of recovery ?

 

[uspostal]

Interesting .........no. The so called cycling know alls became doping know alls then legal know alls and now psychiatric know alls. What next, the examination of Armstrong excreta from restaurant bathrooms. The relations with his pets. An alien probe is responsible for his powers of recovery ?

You forgot to mention spelling know alls. They seem to have the ability to throw that in when no good response is available to them.

 

[movingtarget]

You forgot to mention spelling know alls. They seem to have the ability to throw that in when no good response is available to them.

Just as well, they didn't.........I may have had a psychotic event from reading too much crud on this website !

 

[rhubroma]

i think antilance means that in your mind LA is already in jail,you dont need closed case,you just know that he has done everything u read or everything that has been said by hamilton,andreu,his wife,other ppl i dont even remember

and if someone has different opinion what u do? u start to ridicule the poster as you showed in your next post

while i believe LA took PED (like the majority of peloton in last 20 years) i am nowhere near to accept automaticaly that everything i read in newspapers is true because it fits my case,also it would never occured to me to start threads like is LA psycopath or campaign against his sponsors...WTF is that? it sooooo way out of proportion

the best part ofc is that while many ppl pingpong their own theories about LA which being theories are probably nowhere near truth,in the same time those ppl are fans of other sports star that are guilty of same "crimes" as LA

when first accusations came from various sources i didnt believe it,then with landis etc. i began to think theres something wrong and LA should be punished (like other dopers)...but the more i read stupid haters not only on this forum who are taking it too far the more i want the investigation to be closed with no evidence of wrongdoin...that day i will laugh my a55 off

No being anti-Lance is being pro Simeoni. Is being pro-Betsy. Is being against a bully who perpetuated omertà and fraud to a degree unreached in the sport. Being anti-Lance is being pro-American Cancer Society and more.

Funny how you're so concerned about the integrity of Lance, when he has never cared a fig about anyone elses. And he has even gone about numerous character assault campaigns to continue covering up his lies. To say nothing of the vendettas his majesty Lance has avenged himself with, often for the most trite of motives like telling the truth to the authorities or switching teams.

All of which probably makes me "not worth the chair I'm sitting on," but I can live with it.

 

[D-Queued]

Yes, vice versa.

But someone on another thread (not me) who appeared a little more clued up than the average poster (from a family of psychiatrists) poured a lot of scorn on the idea.

Sorry, but said person was promoting narcissm over APD.

BTW I also come from a pretty good pedigree in terms of a family of psychiatrists.

Unless you are a psychiatric professional and interviewed the subject to make this diagnosis, you have no basis to make these claims.

You have no idea of the qualifications of those commenting, so you need to evaluate the comments on the basis of the information in front of you and not on your emotional take.

You are right, even a trained psychiatrist would not make such a diagnosis without an extensive assessment.

If Armstrong had not drawn such strong attention to himself on such a variety of evaluation criteria, however, this particular dialog would garner no interest.

But, the many well documented lies in his SCA deposition, comments such as wanting women "hotter than donut grease", repeatedly taunting Novitzky, being the largest residential water user in the US, and almost lighting his house and the neighborhood on fire by soaking tennis balls in kerosene, are suggestive of a pattern.

Turns out such a pattern actually has a diagnosis.

If you want to refute the point, then perhaps you can consider refuting such observations point-by-point.

Dave.

 

[Grand Tourist]

I don't think it's possible to label Armstrong as a psychopath & speculating about it is probably unhelpful.

That being said one can make assertions about his character & the way it's developed over the last 12 years or so. He's certainly single minded, ruthless & egotistical. What's interesting is that he's got crazier & more embittered over the years.

He hasn't seemed to have enjoyed his success & in fact it appears to have become a burden. My guess is that this is because 'living the lie' & having to live up to the expectations of the fans & livestrong types is slowly eating away at him. In way it's pathetic & there is a bit of me that sees Armstrong as a tormented, pitiful figure.

 

[luigiV]

he could ride fast with everyone at the top before his tour de france victorys but only in one day races and classics but then he got the boost nitrous oxide sugar hit turbo boost and the good stuff took him over 21 days instead of just one day ahah...but as for a sycopath only his close circle would know that you cant judge someone by what you see in front of hundreds of people when theyre all in youre face and wanting youre time and want to chat after youve just ridden for 6 hours and people freak out after hes shoved someone or whatever ...

 

[Animal]

Google Translate can't even help with that.

 

[bammer]

2 post or 2,000...does it matter? If I had 3,000 posts, would I be more of an authority on the redundancy of the anti-Lance crowd?

*** edited by mod ****

 

[blackcat]

What's interesting is that he's got crazier & more embittered over the years.

Perhaps it just manifested itself over time? The accumulation of acts, the exposition and reveal, make you think he has gotten crazier. Simpler thesis to start would be this was the person as an adolescent, that was always going to be the adult

 

[Race Radio]

The vendettas and vindictiveness of some people on here are funny and sad. I troll these threads and am amazed at the hate people spew. Whether the criticism and accusations are warranted or not, some people need to spend more time on their bike and less time posting inane threads.

True, the hate directed at Greg Lemond, Tyler, Floyd, Betsy, etc does get a little absurd sometimes.

 

[D-Queued]

I don't think it's possible to label Armstrong as a psychopath & speculating about it is probably unhelpful.

That being said one can make assertions about his character & the way it's developed over the last 12 years or so. He's certainly single minded, ruthless & egotistical. What's interesting is that he's got crazier & more embittered over the years.

He hasn't seemed to have enjoyed his success & in fact it appears to have become a burden. My guess is that this is because 'living the lie' & having to live up to the expectations of the fans & livestrong types is slowly eating away at him. In way it's pathetic & there is a bit of me that sees Armstrong as a tormented, pitiful figure.

Why is it not possible, and unhelpful for whom?

As I have done research on this I can see a translation and direct benefit to dealing with challenging people in the workplace.

Yes, he is pitiful. But that doesn't mean we can't learn from it.

The challenge in dealing with sociopaths is that we humans appear to be genetically predisposed to trust other humans. Sociopaths are very convincing liars that can easily take us for a ride.

Dave.

 

[UlleGigo]

Although I can't stand Armstrong now, just as much as I couldn't stand him as a rider, I do feel a strange kind of pity for the guy.

It could be that he is an atheist. Which deserves credit. The logical thought required to reach that conclusion is impressive.

From that I think it is only natural to realise the general idiocy of the average person. Thereby, I think his ability to convince idiots of his innonence in the face of indisputable amounts of evidence to the contrary should at least be admired. If not for its outcomes then at least for its value as a parable.

By the by, it is a talent that probably is not much enhanced by PED's. So at least we can safely acknowledge his greatness in that respect.

Anyway, do others feel pity for the man? Or are we all just waiting for a public hanging to alleviate the boredom?

 

[Grand Tourist]

Perhaps it just manifested itself over time? The accumulation of acts, the exposition and reveal, make you think he has gotten crazier. Simpler thesis to start would be this was the person as an adolescent, that was always going to be the adult

The stakes got (much) higher through 1999 to 2005 (& beyond). In 1999 he was just a successful cyclist with an amazing good, news 'comeback' story & was a bit of a nobody outside the rarefied world of pro-cycling but by 2005 he was a multi millionaire, global super star whose brand transcended cycling. All this built on a whopping great big ugly secret. Concealing the truth on this scale for this length of time in the face of so much public scrutiny is bound to be massively stressful & psychologically damaging.

Just think of the amount of time & effort he spends defending the 'Lance Armstrong' public persona when in private he knows that it's all built on foundations of sand. It'd be enough to drive pretty much anyone round the bend.

 

[D-Queued]

Although I can't stand Armstrong now, just as much as I couldn't stand him as a rider, I do feel a strange kind of pity for the guy.

It could be that he is an atheist. Which deserves credit. The logical thought required to reach that conclusion is impressive.

From that I think it is only natural to realise the general idiocy of the average person. Thereby, I think his ability to convince idiots of his innonence in the face of indisputable amounts of evidence to the contrary should at least be admired. If not for its outcomes then at least for its value as a parable.

By the by, it is a talent that probably is not much enhanced by PED's. So at least we can safely acknowledge his greatness in that respect.

Anyway, do others feel pity for the man? Or are we all just waiting for a public hanging to alleviate the boredom?

And how do you reconcile his logical thought capacity with the cross he wears around his neck?

Something of an irreconcilable contradiction.

And, have you measured his talent before and after PEDS?

Finally, if you admire scam artists by the magnitude of their scams, do you find it difficult to constant resist the urge to buy swamp land in Florida?

Dave.

 

[UlleGigo]

I think you may have missed my tone. tongue -> cheek ???

However, just a note, I never said I admired him.

And just because I can't help myself.
How does recognising someone as a scam artist open one up to being scammed? Surely the exact opposite is true?

 

[D-Queued]

I think you may have missed my tone. tongue -> cheek ???

However, just a note, I never said I admired him.

And just because I can't help myself.
How does recognising someone as a scam artist open one up to being scammed? Surely the exact opposite is true?

Sorry, I was trying to figure out where you were going there.

... as for the 2nd part, admiring a scam artist is different from recognizing it.

Dave.

 

[UlleGigo]

Yeah. I'm just talking ****. Sometimes the normal humdrum of 'we've finally got him this time' is too much to take.

I do pity him though. And I really don't know why. It's odd.