Is Contador becoming like Armstrong?

[Publicus]

Not many riders speak out of their dislike of other riders unless they have tested positive for drugs. I don't think AC is that liked. People have only grown fond of him because he stuck it up to Armstrong. AC does have skeletons in his closet which haven't yet been fully unfolded. I wonder how his name got in OP. He said that his name got 'mixed up' with Jorrg Jachse. He also had a codename AC in the puerto scandal. You should have a look at some forums about drugs and AC and then you''ll see how much he's liked.

On the Cadel Evans situation not being liked, the way the media turned on him was pretty dogish. People said he was a little angry man becos he punched a microphone. If you had just had crashed and had ebrasions on your left side which you struggle to sleep on and then rode 160km up the Tourmalet and Hautacam into the Yellow Jersey, you would not liked to be wacked and grabbed on your sore spots. He got a bad go in that tour by the press. He also does a lot for charity also which goes un heard. I'm not just saying this from a Cadel fan but from a reasonable persons point of view.

I can tell you've internalised and personalised the comments about Cadel Evans, which is never a good thing. AC, whether he's using PED's or not, is a likeable guy because of his demeanor and his racing style. I can't speak for anyone else, but I became a HUGE fan of his during the 2007 Paris Nice. The battle with the Chicken during the Tour sealed the deal. So, at least for me, it's all about his racing style and nothing to do with his battle with Armstrong--though, now that I think about it, I did like the kid's moxie in not giving Armstrong a millimeter this year.

 

[Publicus]

I thought AC could of acknowledged his team a bit more for the effort they put in. It seems to be the Contador Show and not about his team but that is just my opinion.

I agree Evans loss in the Dauphine was partly lost on the Mont Ventoux climb by not chasing like Alpe D huez but the AC's chasing of evans down was partly to do with why he lost as well.

I agree that Alan Davis has as much to be answered for as AC and they both have questions to answer before they are free of suspicion.

What about AC's attack on Arcalis where he had an unplanned attack with his team unaware of the situation. That doesn't seem like a team player to me

Read some doping formus and then tell me that he is that popular!

According to Zubeldia, he went to each of his teammates rooms EVERY NIGHT to thank them for their efforts. If your complaint is that he didn't do this publicly enough to suit your tastes, well no one can really argue with that. But, at least according to someone who was there, he acknowledged his teammates efforts far more than you give him credit.

As for Arcalis, he made a smart move to put time into his rivals, just like Lance would do back in the day. But also recall that JB's orders had been to slow down to ensure that the team did not get the MJ. Armstrong and LL were PUSHING to close the gap so that LA could end up in the MJ--which is the opposite of what JB wanted. So it seems to me, that NO ONE was listening to team orders and the strongest man got his way.

I don't want to go any further in rehashing conversations that were had ad nausem back in July. I thought you had some new revelations that were driving your comments about AC, but it appears you do not.

 

[**Uru**]

It is Contador's life. If he does not want to race after the Tour, it is up to him.

 

[cavfan11]

It is Contador's life. If he does not want to race after the Tour, it is up to him.

Same thing should apply to Armstrong..yet it doesn't.

 

[Mellow Velo]

It is Contador's life. If he does not want to race after the Tour, it is up to him.

Fine, but if it's OK for him to opt out of cycling, after the tour, it should be the same for all pros.
They have lives, too.

This is actually elitism. If everybody were allowed to climb off their bikes, in mid Summer, then we wouldn't have a Vuelta, right now.

In the modern era, ALL pro sports demand more and more exposure.
Many seasonal sports have become year round, in the drive towards greater profit.

If cycling and cyclists buck the trend, the sport will suffer.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Well, if you read my post, I never questioned a rider's "right" to race the events as he sees/saw fit. And my "disagreeing" was in regards to how LA chose to exercise his "right" wasn't good for cycling because it showed little respect for the sport which made him, nor the fans.

As is usual in these matters, it boils down to a question of style. One, of course, may choose to comport themselves however one wishes when it's within their "rights," though that doesn't necessarily make such a comportment in good taste. At times, quite to the contrary...

You lost me.
Let's go back and look at the full context here:

I don't think winning the Tour of France gives a cyclist the right to snub a great number of races in the calendar.

Of course winning the Tour de France doesn't give a cyclist the right to snub other races.

Every cyclist has that right whether they win the Tour de France or not.

Why are you complaining about someone exercising a right in the way he wishes to exercise that right?

These men are both throwing the chance to forge a greater palmares for themselves, and showing a lack of respect for competitive cycling.

Maybe, though of course that's a matter of opinion. But at least this point is not absurd on its face, as is the earlier one.

Don't agree. Lance was a an ungenerous champion. And the sport isn't just the Tour. A guy like LA should have tried to win a few classics and the Giro, another Worlds at the very least.

That he had the "right" to race the races as he saw fit, is such an American perspective (where most of the fan base only gets to watch, or even knows about the Tour and thinks rather shawlowly of the sport purely in terms of that race) that simply doesn't fly in Europe. Cycling made Lance, not the otherway around. And there's something here, in Europe, called class and honoring tradition and this very beautiful and priviledged profession of cycling. So for the majority of Europeans, LA was a Tour champion. No more. And certainly can't be even considered among the likes of Merckx, Hinault, Coppi, Anquetil, etc. So it's not just about a corporate mentality of maximising your investment, to get the greatest return on it as LA did by attempting to win only the Tour. It's seen as shallow and means that he did more than any other single rider in the history of the sport, to kill the romance in it.

Real cycling fans, not the bandwagon crew back in the States, want to see great champions combating in different terrain throughout the season within reason. So at the top of his game, Lance, to honor his profession and demonstrate a certian class and generosity to the fans, should have tested himself also at LBL, Flanders, Roubaix (perhaps not all in the same year) and the Giro against others to win them at the very least.

Now the Worlds has become problematical, for any rider who has peaked in the spring and at the Tour, as is AC's case, because one also has to ride at least half of the Vuelta to be competitive. AC would be asking too much of himself to try it. Hopefully in the future he will peak later than the last couple of years, perhaps for the first time at LBL, then go on to win the Tour, Vuelta and Worlds in one year. It would be kinda like Roche winning the Giro, Tour and Worlds (when the latter race was in Sept.) all in one year in 87. Oh...and, by the way, if my comments about romanticism and generosity, were to abstract and obscure (and human) from your way of thinking, I'd suggest you review all those 80's champions performances like the ones just mentioned on UTube to get a clue.

You wrote "Don't agree" in response to my post. What part of what I wrote do you not agree with? My only point was to disagree with Danilot's assertion that he (and cyclists in general, by implication) don't have the right "to snub a great number of races in the calendar".

So, my only point was that cyclists do have that right. I assumed you did not agree with that point, because you wrote "Don't agree" in response to it.

If you weren't disagreeing with the only point I was making in my post, why did you start with "Don't agree"? Again, you don't agree with what in my post?

I never said the way he exercised his right was good for cycling.

 

[racerralph]

Not many riders speak out of their dislike of other riders unless they have tested positive for drugs. I don't think AC is that liked. People have only grown fond of him because he stuck it up to Armstrong. AC does have skeletons in his closet which haven't yet been fully unfolded. I wonder how his name got in OP. He said that his name got 'mixed up' with Jorrg Jachse. He also had a codename AC in the puerto scandal. You should have a look at some forums about drugs and AC and then you''ll see how much he's liked.

You ought to lighten up a bit on Alberto. He has won the races that have catapulted him to the top, in a clean manner. Maybe the AC stands for Antonio Colom, who is now out of competition because of irregular blood values, and was with the Astana gang before the Bruyneel/ Discovery Channel infusion into that team. How long do unfounded suspicions stay on the minds of cycling fans........forever??
If so, what makes the sport of cycling attractive to those fans, at all?

 

[Hugh Januss]

You ought to lighten up a bit on Alberto. He has won the races that have catapulted him to the top, in a clean manner. Maybe the AC stands for Antonio Colom, who is now out of competition because of irregular blood values, and was with the Astana gang before the Bruyneel/ Discovery Channel infusion into that team. How long do unfounded suspicions stay on the minds of cycling fans........forever??
If so, what makes the sport of cycling attractive to those fans, at all?

It is possible to be a cycling fan without being a fan of the way pro cycling is conducted these days.

 

[flicker]

contador

I am afraid Contador hasn't the character to ride the Worlds to win.
Refer to Videos biography Merckx and Hell of North.

Notice the faces in Worlds Battaglin, Moser, Maertens Giamondi,Ocana,Merckx etc.

Contador has yet to acheive the character of Giamondi nor even Micheal Boogard.

Le Mond and Hinault have character they rode Roubaix,Tour,Giro,Vuelta to win.

Contador dissapoints....

 

[racerralph]

It is Contador's life. If he does not want to race after the Tour, it is up to him.

I agree, and after the tumultuous year he has had, if he doesn't want to put out anymore for Astana or it's "interim"management. It's his right to refuse.
After all, does anyone think that it is a great deal that he might be forced to race next year in an environment that he doesn't want to be in. He was lied to all season long, starting from Fall of 2008, when Lance made the announcement of his return. He lost any control of his agendas once Lance's were thrown onto the Astana table.
True, nobody twisted his arm to sign the extended contract, that binds him to Astana 'til 2010. But the circumstances that surrounded the team have changed so dramatically(the resurrection of LA, and now his departure) and traumatically( does everyone on the team dislike him?) since his signing, that whoever blames him for wanting a fresh start elsewhere is being totally hypocritical.
He has been more than as gracious, throughout this trying time considering all the circumstances. But, as for this season, he's had enough. And I, for one, don't blame him one bit. To be absolutely honest, If I'd been as insulted(intelligence, immaturity, lack of team spirit, lack of strategic/tactical skills) and scolded(for disobeying orders that were never in place), and disrespected(twittering....need I say more), as he was throughout the TdF, I might be in court with assault charges hanging over my head.
Hey, listen, ultimately this thread is garbage, because to put it simply: Contador is NOT like Armstrong. Unless you're in the habit of comparing Apples to Oranges on a regular basis.

 

[racerralph]

It is possible to be a cycling fan without being a fan of the way pro cycling is conducted these days.

So, what? Should we dignify, and knit pick every unsubstantiated rumor and innuendo out there? Even, like in this case, we know that AC was tested a very high number of times during this TdF, but some still want to get into his closet, when the authorities have long since dismissed the issue. For that matter LA gets tested every minute, or so it seems, and yet we still have threads that are dedicated to him doping!! Look, I don't like the turn that LA has taken, but I don't believe that he has ever doped, and despite all their testing they have never caught him.
If I were going through all the pain that some people seem to enjoy about what a victim their sport is to all the dopers in the peloton, I'd just go ride my bike, and stop being a bicycle racing fan, unless I needed to be a masochist.

 

[racerralph]

I am afraid Contador hasn't the character to ride the Worlds to win.
Refer to Videos biography Merckx and Hell of North.

Notice the faces in Worlds Battaglin, Moser, Maertens Giamondi,Ocana,Merckx etc.

Contador has yet to acheive the character of Giamondi nor even Micheal Boogard.

Le Mond and Hinault have character they rode Roubaix,Tour,Giro,Vuelta to win.

Contador dissapoints....

A historian, with a crystal ball!!!

 

[auscyclefan94]

You ought to lighten up a bit on Alberto. He has won the races that have catapulted him to the top, in a clean manner. Maybe the AC stands for Antonio Colom, who is now out of competition because of irregular blood values, and was with the Astana gang before the Bruyneel/ Discovery Channel infusion into that team. How long do unfounded suspicions stay on the minds of cycling fans........forever??
If so, what makes the sport of cycling attractive to those fans, at all?

I believe the sport is mostly clean that's why i follow it. i don't get these people who follow the sport like crazy and then ***** about riders thinking their all dopers. Why would they follow the sport.

I will lighten up on Alberto...just for you

 

[auscyclefan94]

According to Zubeldia, he went to each of his teammates rooms EVERY NIGHT to thank them for their efforts. If your complaint is that he didn't do this publicly enough to suit your tastes, well no one can really argue with that. But, at least according to someone who was there, he acknowledged his teammates efforts far more than you give him credit.

As for Arcalis, he made a smart move to put time into his rivals, just like Lance would do back in the day. But also recall that JB's orders had been to slow down to ensure that the team did not get the MJ. Armstrong and LL were PUSHING to close the gap so that LA could end up in the MJ--which is the opposite of what JB wanted. So it seems to me, that NO ONE was listening to team orders and the strongest man got his way.

I don't want to go any further in rehashing conversations that were had ad nausem back in July. I thought you had some new revelations that were driving your comments about AC, but it appears you do not.

According to Zubeldia who is spanish... Reading lance's and bruyneel's books i have noticed that it is Johan who makes the calls when to attack. I may be reading a bit to much into arcalis but ususally in world cycling the director makes the calls about the attacks.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Contadors attack on Arcalis? Use your brain. He was the favourite to win the tour. Was he supposed to win, which was the team directive, or hold onto Lance, Levi and Kloden and pull them up the entire mountain? AC did what he had to do to win the tour. Simple. Let me guess, Cadel shouldn't have attacked on Arcalis either, because it might have ****ed Marc Seargeant and the Belgian money off that Jurgen Van den Broucke was over looked by his superior team mate? Arcalis and Stage 17 showed two things. Bruyneel is a lackey and Armstrong pulls the main strings. He can't match AC so he complains through JB. I'm personally glad he stood up to Armstrong who thought gives the impression he has a divine birthright to be in yellow.

I also noticed earlier in the thread auscyclefan94 that you mentioned Cadel and the media turning on him. Can you please inform the forum who it was that instigated the "Don't touch me" high pitched squeel from Cadel. I'll give you a clue if you didn't know already, you saw their face everyday at the start of live coverage in Australia. Because of this incident and the person responsible for tapping Evans, Cadel's funny new behaviour went largely unnoticed and unreported in Australia. Europeans and Americans got to see it all but we had it filtered. Quite the opposite in fact from what you earlier suggested, that the media turned against Evans. Heck it happened this year with what was going on with his team after the TTT. Half truths and incomplete pictures painted about the team dynamics.

Tomolaris did grab cadel but who was the guy who wacked him with the mic continously?. I think anyone would do something like he did as the media were trying to cause trouble to make a story. I don't see how his behaviour went funny when each incident was provoked by the media. The only thing cadel said about the ttt is that they had a lot of bad luck and that he thought that the team put in a good effort but it was their day. i don't see how that is blaming his team after the ttt.

 

[racerralph]

I believe the sport is mostly clean that's why i follow it. i don't get these people who follow the sport like crazy and then ***** about riders thinking their all dopers. Why would they follow the sport.

I will lighten up on Alberto...just for you

Obviously, I agree with your first point. And, Thanks a lot for lightening up, I truly appreciate it.

 

[craig1985]

Fine, but if it's OK for him to opt out of cycling, after the tour, it should be the same for all pros.
They have lives, too.

This is actually elitism. If everybody were allowed to climb off their bikes, in mid Summer, then we wouldn't have a Vuelta, right now.

In the modern era, ALL pro sports demand more and more exposure.
Many seasonal sports have become year round, in the drive towards greater profit.

If cycling and cyclists buck the trend, the sport will suffer.

Are you disappointed that the man in your avatar is not racing the Vuelta?

 

[Anonymous]

personally i find AC sneaky, slimey, sticky, egotistical, self centred, and fairly repulsive, i cant stand the guy. and i wouldnt trust him to hold me horse while i peed...

most of the things people have thought of lance over the years, so yes, they are just the same..

that aside, ive often supported lance and respected him as a rider, his arrogance in the tour this year got on my whick, but his retirment in the tour of ireland really p'd me off..

personally i hope vino (cos despite all his troubles, the guy is still the biggest personality in cycling) sticks one right to alberto, and levi stabs lance in the back and wins the tour

 

[ak-zaaf]

I believe the sport is mostly clean that's why i follow it. i don't get these people who follow the sport like crazy and then ***** about riders thinking their all dopers. Why would they follow the sport.

because of the sport itself? i loved cycling in the 90's. even after it became clear everybody doped up to the absolute limit.

 

[racerralph]

personally i find AC sneaky, slimey, sticky, egotistical, self centred, and fairly repulsive, i cant stand the guy. and i wouldnt trust him to hold me horse while i peed...

most of the things people have thought of lance over the years, so yes, they are just the same..

that aside, ive often supported lance and respected him as a rider, his arrogance in the tour this year got on my whick, but his retirment in the tour of ireland really p'd me off..

personally i hope vino (cos despite all his troubles, the guy is still the biggest personality in cycling) sticks one right to alberto, and levi stabs lance in the back and wins the tour

Yeah, well put
Now stop rubbin' that bottle so hard, the Genie isn't going to work on any more wishes for you. You used all three in one fell swoop, sorry!

 

[No_Balls]

Plus Contador is not Eddy Merckx.

You are one of those who believe racing in 1960 is like racing today i suppose

 

[Ferminal]

If you can view things neutrally just remember that press and coverage you will see and public opinion in Australia will not be the same as the rest of the world. AC is well liked.

On the view of respecting team mates and being a team player how would you explain Vuelta a Castilla y Leon. Contador was designated team leader and chose to ride for Levi instead because he personally felt he was the stronger rider. Levi didn't agree but accepted ACs decision.

On the Col de Columbiere Kloden was completely and uterly dead on a bike and no faster than many of the amateurs riding the climb earlier. That is why he lost a min to Armstrong in the last km. LAs comments were spin to try and mentally break AC. I would like to see any comment Kloden had to make on the same incident I am willing to bet he himself would not have criticised the move

If you believe that Evans lost the Dauphine was collusion of spaniards and that is your reason for try and denigrate them I kinda get it. If you can look at the same race and wonder why did Evans let Valverde get over 2 mins up the road on Mont Ventoux you will understand why Evans never wins anything.

This thread was not in the clinic so don't bring up OP. If you read some of the notes in the clinic without going I dont like this rider you will see that he is in the same position as Alan Davis who gets no flack about this

A. Davis offered DNA? Read that how you want...

AC will probably race and win all 3 GTs in one season, he does not have LA's megalomania.