Is cycling getting cleaner ?

[I Watch Cycling In July]

I wasn't responding directly to your post (I just used your link to quote from it), but to Franklin's and IWCiJ's posts.

Of course, I don't disagree that the data look compelling.
I was just pointing out that one has to remain skeptical of the veracity of such studies, especially when members of the UCI medical board are involved in the data analysis.
I think that's a reasonable caveat to make.
Probably I should have said "caveat" in the first place, rather than "wake up call".

Anyway, thanks for the additional link. I'll look into it.

Think you might have missed my point slightly. "One thing it seems safe to conclude is that riders' doping practices are heavily influenced by the detection methods." In other words, the tests change, the doping changes.

Before EPO test..... high retics due to EPO use.
After EPO test....... low retics due to blood doping.
Passport introduction...... balanced retics due to a little blood plus EPO micro-dose (or overall reduction oxygen vector doping?)

Sometimes, discussions about the ineffectiveness of testing gives the impression that riders still take whatever they want, whenever they want. This is clearly not the case. I think this graph demonstrates that they change their doping practices to limit their risk of an AAF. This tells us something about the level of risk riders are prepared to accept. In turn, this tells us something about how effective anti-doping measures need to be, before they act as a strong deterrent.

If they knew retrospective tests would be carried out once new tests were available, the only way to limit their risk is to cut out the doping....and I now think they would act to limit the risk.

 

[Krebs cycle]

I wasn't responding directly to your post (I just used your link to quote from it), but to Franklin's and IWCiJ's posts.

Of course, I don't disagree that the data look compelling.
I was just pointing out that one has to remain skeptical of the veracity of such studies, especially when members of the UCI medical board are involved in the data analysis.
I think that's a reasonable caveat to make.
Probably I should have said "caveat" in the first place, rather than "wake up call".

Anyway, thanks for the additional link. I'll look into it.

Sorry I thought you meant that the sportscience.com guys weren't the independent researchers (which was quite obvious from the content of the blog post).

Regardless, I'm not sure who the other guy is, but the name Olaf Schumacher speaks for itself. He is well known in the international sports medicine/sports science arena, is an MD and a university professor and is a highly respected researcher. There is no question over his scientific credentials nor integrity. You're barking up the wrong tree there if you are in any way suggesting data that he publishes is lacking in veracity. In fact I would have thought that being on the UCI medical board strengthens the veracity of the study because you know that he has unfettered access to the original raw test data.

 

[rata de sentina]

Regardless, I'm not sure who the other guy is, but the name Olaf Schumacher speaks for itself. He is well known in the international sports medicine/sports science arena, is an MD and a university professor and is a highly respected researcher. There is no question over his scientific credentials nor integrity. You're barking up the wrong tree there if you are in any way suggesting data that he publishes is lacking in veracity. In fact I would have thought that being on the UCI medical board strengthens the veracity of the study because you know that he has unfettered access to the original raw test data.

I agree. Mere association with the UCI shouldn't tarnish someone. These people are not UCI hacks but independent researchers and experts, I don't think they are drones for McQ and Verbruggen et al. By all means disagree with their scientific conclusions but not on the basis of their non-existent thralldom to the UCI.

 

[Animal]

I just caught up with the Tour on ITV4's website.

I might actually start taking an interest in professional road racing again after several years letting the pharma experts rip it up.

The racing was entirely different this year. There were no indefatigable riders. No super domestiques able to destroy an entire peloton.

There was no 9 man team able to ride an entire mountain stage on the front, ripping the peloton apart.

Almost every contender had a bad day and had to make a move to drag himself up the GC.

Much more tactical racing and risk taking.

I can't say they're all clean, just to me it looks better.

I don't know if it's the UCI. Probably not, probably pressure from ASO and AFLD, so could be that French races are going to be the exciting and worthwhile ones?

 

[sniper]

Sorry I thought you meant that the sportscience.com guys weren't the independent researchers (which was quite obvious from the content of the blog post).

Regardless, I'm not sure who the other guy is, but the name Olaf Schumacher speaks for itself. He is well known in the international sports medicine/sports science arena, is an MD and a university professor and is a highly respected researcher. There is no question over his scientific credentials nor integrity. You're barking up the wrong tree there if you are in any way suggesting data that he publishes is lacking in veracity. In fact I would have thought that being on the UCI medical board strengthens the veracity of the study because you know that he has unfettered access to the original raw test data.

I agree. Mere association with the UCI shouldn't tarnish someone. These people are not UCI hacks but independent researchers and experts, I don't think they are drones for McQ and Verbruggen et al. By all means disagree with their scientific conclusions but not on the basis of their non-existent thralldom to the UCI.

points taken.

But wasn't Vrijman also part of the UCI medical board?
We all know how independent and full of integrity his 2005 study on LA was.

 

[Papparrazzi]

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

 

[Anonymous]

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

nice * 10 char

 

[Parrulo]

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

good'ol bob

 

[rata de sentina]

But wasn't Vrijman also part of the UCI medical board?
We all know how independent and full of integrity his 2005 study on LA was.

Isn't Vrijman a lawyer? Please feel free to question his integrity.