Is doping the worst form of cheating?

[SirLes]

The playoffs to get into the premier league (football) will be staring soon. I believe the final is the game with the biggest financial difference between winning- (getting into the Premiership) and losing, (staying in the Championship)

If a player "dives" ie simulates a foul in order to win a penalty the result could be a) he gets away with it and the resultant goals seals the match B) he's caught and receives a yellow card- a warning.

If in Cricket a player accepts money to deliberately bowl a particular number of "no balls" at a certain times he will almost certainly not have affected the result of the match but if caught could get banned for life.

In many sports the idea of deliberately cheating - ie breaking the rules or laws of the game in order to gain an advantage or stop the other side scoring is accepted or even encouraged- particularly if you get away with it.

How does doping fit in with all of this? I suspect most here would think that a 2 yr ban is not long enough but how does it fit in with other forms of cheating or rule breaking.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The playoffs to get into the premier league (football) will be staring soon. I believe the final is the game with the biggest financial difference between winning- (getting into the Premiership) and losing, (staying in the Championship)

If a player "dives" ie simulates a foul in order to win a penalty the result could be a) he gets away with it and the resultant goals seals the match B) he's caught and receives a yellow card- a warning.

If in Cricket a player accepts money to deliberately bowl a particular number of "no balls" at a certain times he will almost certainly not have affected the result of the match but if caught could get banned for life.

In many sports the idea of deliberately cheating - ie breaking the rules or laws of the game in order to gain an advantage or stop the other side scoring is accepted or even encouraged- particularly if you get away with it.

How does doping fit in with all of this? I suspect most here would think that a 2 yr ban is not long enough but how does it fit in with other forms of cheating or rule breaking.

Essentially there are 2 points here.

To the highlighted - I think that view is only shared if the penalty is awarded to 'your' team. Who wants to watch a soccer game to see it decided by a (diving) penalty claim?

Yes, doping is cheating - however such are the gains from doping that it forces others to choose to dope or not to maintain their careers, which means people needlessly have to risk their health.

 

[Oldman]

Essentially there are 2 points here.

To the highlighted - I think that view is only shared if the penalty is awarded to 'your' team. Who wants to watch a soccer game to see it decided by a (diving) penalty claim?

Yes, doping is cheating - however such are the gains from doping that it forces others to choose to dope or not to maintain their careers, which means people needlessly have to risk their health.

Nicely worded and to the point.

 

[SirLes]

Yes, doping is cheating - however such are the gains from doping that it forces others to choose to dope or not to maintain their careers, which means people needlessly have to risk their health.

But the risks to health are many and varied in sports even if played by the rules. In cycling there are examples where a preparedness to risk serious injury (or worse) are absolutely essential- bunch sprints and descending for example. The list of sportsmen with health issues as a result of the demands of their chosen sport is of course long.

We marvel at people putting their bodies on the line for the sake of making a tackle in rugby or American football and accept as normal that cyclists should descend at frankly terrifying speeds where a mistakes by themselves or another (or a equipment faliure) would almost certainly have a catestophic effect but legal (in the medical sense) drugs administered by professional doctors is unsafe?

 

[Magnus]

I don't think doping is the worst form of cheating.

I think, for instance, the 'professional'/deliberate free kick in football is worse because of the immediate risk you impose.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

But the risks to health are many and varied in sports even if played by the rules. In cycling there are examples where a preparedness to risk serious injury (or worse) are absolutely essential- bunch sprints and descending for example. The list of sportsmen with health issues as a result of the demands of their chosen sport is of course long.

We marvel at people putting their bodies on the line for the sake of making a tackle in rugby or American football and accept as normal that cyclists should descend at frankly terrifying speeds where a mistakes by themselves or another (or a equipment faliure) would almost certainly have a catestophic effect but legal (in the medical sense) drugs administered by professional doctors is unsafe?

The very fact of throwing your leg over a bike can be a risk to injury - thats why i wear a helmet, avoid busy roads or if in a group ride near the front.

Desending, sprinting - theses are skills that one can perfect with training. If someone is on a suicide mission going off a climb you can choose to dab the brakes (and whizz by there splattered corpse) but even if they stay upright their gains are marginal.

With PEDs the gains are significant and often little is known about the products used and the short or longterm consequences.

 

[hfer07]

apart from bribing, I'd say yes

 

[Juicy McDrip]

No. Doping isn't the worst form of cheating.

Using a motor is!

Oh wait....not actually racing and getting the "win" is the worst.

 

[theswordsman]

People seem to be reading into the question the success of the doper and their impact on competitors. I don't have an answer to the question, but have another version. I think gambling is going to turn out to be a much bigger deal than we might like to think. I believe it was Howman of WADA a month or two ago who spoke of the criminal activity associated with supplying doping products.

Which is worse:

1. An athlete who uses illegal substances and methods in an attempt to improve his performance, at whatever level?

2. An athlete who can have a direct effect on the outcome of an event - say a star basketball player, or a boxer, who takes money to either lose, or in basketball, to beat or not beat a point spread?

3. Assume that something like the electric motor exists in bike racing, and unlike the uncertainty of doping, a guy knows he can just push a button and go?

4. Deliberately breaking a rule in a sport in order to injure a key competitor and give your team a chance to win. For instance, in American football, going after a quarterback's knee when he's out of bounds or after the whistle blew?

5. Bribing a referee?

 

[The Hitch]

Probably.

One thing i would say is that in doping you are cheating yourself. The cheaters get caught, even if they dont because it ****s up their health.

The other forms of cheating however, the cheaters get away with it.

 

[petethedrummer]

The Harding-Kerrigan incident and loaded boxing gloves are worse IMO.

 

[Galic Ho]

Doping as the worst form of cheating is really a pushover. Depends on context, the people, the sport, the situation and reasons behind doping.

Nope, doping is not the worst form of cheating. Football is full of cheating. Diving and simulation are bad. The admins are worse though. FIFA sanctioned refs who somehow manage to see that one team (a favourite), time and again win the game. I've seen a number this year that just astound me. Football truly is a *** sport for lightweight losers. What am I talking about? The worst form of cheating. Match fixing. Rigging the results. I've seen strong evidence of it at the last three football world cups. Teams losing players and games via ill advised and dubious application of rules. FIFA is a den of the lowest scum on the planet. It's all about the $ to those tools. At least in cycling, majority of the time the best and strongest wins. Football, it comes down to the ancient hierarchy and whose pockets are the deepest. Quite sad actually.

I'm amazed football has kept it covered up for so long. Want to know how bad it can get? Check out cricket at the turn of the century. Lots of match fixing going on. Still is. Nasty stuff. Far worse than doping.

 

[ingsve]

I think drawing a distinction between some of these offenses like bribery or doping is pointless since they are all highly immoral and does not have no role in sports at all.

The distinction I want to make is whether there is premeditation or not. Taking a dive in the penalty area to get a chance of scoring might be decisive but it's hardly premeditated. No one goes into the game thinking "in the 67th minute I'm going to take a dive if we need to in order to win". I think that just like in a murder case there is difference between something done in the heat of the moment and what is done with premeditation. No one dopes or bribes etc in the heat of the moment. There is always time for the person to reflect on what they are doing and they have the option of not do which is why I believe that those offenses are worse than things like diving in the penalty box.

 

[skippythepinhead]

The playoffs to get into the premier league (football) will be staring soon. I believe the final is the game with the biggest financial difference between winning- (getting into the Premiership) and losing, (staying in the Championship)

If a player "dives" ie simulates a foul in order to win a penalty the result could be a) he gets away with it and the resultant goals seals the match B) he's caught and receives a yellow card- a warning.

If in Cricket a player accepts money to deliberately bowl a particular number of "no balls" at a certain times he will almost certainly not have affected the result of the match but if caught could get banned for life.

In many sports the idea of deliberately cheating - ie breaking the rules or laws of the game in order to gain an advantage or stop the other side scoring is accepted or even encouraged- particularly if you get away with it.

How does doping fit in with all of this? I suspect most here would think that a 2 yr ban is not long enough but how does it fit in with other forms of cheating or rule breaking.

There is a difference between breaking rules and breaking the law. The football example you mention involves the judgment of the game's official arbiter. It's a matter of instantaneous interpretation. The cricket example is influenced by factors outside the game and the punishment (a life ban) might seem light in comparison to a jail sentence.

It seems to me that doping is appropriately somewhere between the two. I'd say the order of what's bad in cycling from worst to less awful is: 1.)Taking a train to the finish line, 2.) Betting on the race, 3.) Using your finger to simulate a gun firing as you cross the finish line, 4.) Doping and being from Texas, 5.) Doping and being from anywhere else.

 

[movingtarget]

Yes, I think doping is the worst along with bribery or financial corruption. I am sure riders have been paid off to deliberately not try as has happened in other sports. There is huge amounts of money being invested in sports gambling. Boxing and horse racing were the prototypes. We know it has happened in cricket and football also.

 

[Hawkwood]

Surely the worst form of cheating is where you physically hurt your opponent, I'm thinking here of fouls in footbally, rugby and similar sports. In some instances these can be career ending. In the UK we've had examples of footballers making careers of playing dirty.

 

[The Hitch]

The distinction I want to make is whether there is premeditation or not. Taking a dive in the penalty area to get a chance of scoring might be decisive but it's hardly premeditated. No one goes into the game thinking "in the 67th minute I'm going to take a dive if we need to in order to win"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3430728096637540286#

 

[User Guide]

The Harding-Kerrigan incident and loaded boxing gloves are worse IMO.

+1
Hiring someone to kneecap a competitor is a tad worse than doping imho

 

[JeffreyPerry]

Cheating

Harding-Kerigan deal was way worse.

 

[M Sport]

If the Fabian motor story had been true (I didn't believe it) I would rank that higher than doping. Not too much else would, maybe some deliberate team tactics to crash a rider out of a race ala Prost - Senna in F1 or the more recent Briatore- Singapore incident in F1. But I have never heard of anything like that in cycling.

Doping is nearly as bad as it gets while the actual race is on.

 

[md2020]

What's interesting (to me anyway) is that from what I've read, doping isn't even considered cheating by most professionals. It's considered part of the game. They're much more concerned about riders that attack when someone's chain falls off.