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Is pro cycling too difficult?

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Feb 4, 2010
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I don't think making the races shorter or easier would have much effect on doping. People dope to gain an advantage. If you can gain an advantage you can win or at least better your results. Doping will increase your performance whether it's in a one hour rce or an eight hour race. If you better your results you make more money. Pretty simple IMO.

That said, the way I look at it is like this. Take your average recreational cyclist. They will train for weeks or months just to do a century ride on relatively easy terrain. For them this is pretty tough. A person like this would be considered pretty fit my normal sedentary standards.
A more serious recreational cyclist might occasionally do a century ride on more difficult terrain, push a 17-20mph pace and put in 150-300 miles a week during riding season. This person would be considered very fit
A typical USA domestic pro/semi pro might do longer harder road races but at paces considered very slow by Euro pro peloton standards. (For this argument I'm not talking about crits) This person would be fitter and faster by a magnitude of several than the serious recreational rider
That domestic pro maybe goes to Europe to race and gets rudely awakened the pace, depth of competition, length and overall difficulty of the road races in Europe, even the second tier races.
Then you enter into the realm of the elite level one day races, shorter stages races, and hardest of all the GTs with 200km+- stages every day at very high paces, some of which have 2-3000+ meters of climbing and the typical US domestic pro - someone who by any normal persons standards is incredibly fit and tough - is hanging on for dear life just to make the time cuts. If you want to make any kind of a real living, well, the fans (thus sponsors) want not just people who can hang on, but those who win. Who animate the race. Who are heroes. Not a bunch of also rans.

To expect and hope that someone will do this kind of stuff, compete day in and day out at the highest level on good wholesome clean food and water is a little bit of wishful thinking IMO.

None of that is to say there shouldn't be limits on what kind of performance enhancing substance that can be utilized, but as long as there is big money in sports that are incredibly difficult, there will be the pressure to use whatever is available to gain an edge.
 
Feb 21, 2010
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SlantParallelogram said:
Pro cycling is the perfect example of what happens when a sport and its governing body is controlled by a bunch of corrupt promoters with no care or concern for the welfare of the athletes. That is why the events are so insanely long and difficult.

There are people who will cheat in almost any sport, and almost any event. However pro cycling is the only sport I know of where it is a necessity to dope simply to keep your job.

Premier League
NFL
NFL
NBA
MLB
Track & Field

The list is very long. I don't think you are trying very hard to think through what you are trying to say.
 
Jun 27, 2009
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Colm.Murphy said:
Premier League
NFL
NFL
NBA
MLB
Track & Field

The list is very long. I don't think you are trying very hard to think through what you are trying to say.

True dat. The evidence from cross-country skiing and T&F alone is enough to indicate that 20-60 minute cycling races would be just as doped as one month Tours.
 
Colm.Murphy said:
NFL
NBA
MLB

The list is very long. I don't think you are trying very hard to think through what you are trying to say.

That is totally untrue. Although there are people who dope in those sports, it is not needed simply to keep your job. Why would a quarterback need performance enhancing drugs? That can be said for any "skill" position in pro football. You don't have to be the fastest or strongest. It is far more dependent on the type of skills you have.

The same goes for NBA players. It is far more dependent on skill. You definitely don't need to be the strongest or fastest player. Being stronger and faster doesn't help you shoot any better.

Same story with baseball. As long as you aren't one of the "power hitters" on the team, you don't have to put up any insane hitting numbers. All you have to do is be a decent player at your position and put up "respectable" hitting numbers.

You don't absolutely have to be on performance enhancing drugs for any of those sports. It is totally different in pro-cycling, where most of the riders say they have to use performance enhancing drugs simply to keep their jobs.
 
Nov 24, 2009
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SlantParallelogram said:
That is totally untrue. Although there are people who dope in those sports, it is not needed simply to keep your job. Why would a quarterback need performance enhancing drugs? That can be said for any "skill" position in pro football. You don't have to be the fastest or strongest. It is far more dependent on the type of skills you have.

Are you actually being serious?
 
Feb 21, 2010
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SlantParallelogram said:
That is totally untrue. Although there are people who dope in those sports, it is not needed simply to keep your job. Why would a quarterback need performance enhancing drugs? That can be said for any "skill" position in pro football. You don't have to be the fastest or strongest. It is far more dependent on the type of skills you have.

The same goes for NBA players. It is far more dependent on skill. You definitely don't need to be the strongest or fastest player. Being stronger and faster doesn't help you shoot any better.

Same story with baseball. As long as you aren't one of the "power hitters" on the team, you don't have to put up any insane hitting numbers. All you have to do is be a decent player at your position and put up "respectable" hitting numbers.

You don't absolutely have to be on performance enhancing drugs for any of those sports. It is totally different in pro-cycling, where most of the riders say they have to use performance enhancing drugs simply to keep their jobs.

I am sorry you cannot fathom how things work. I am not jaded or cynical. I am practical and know, from my own first-hand experiences, and those of very close friends in the medical community in Europe and the USA, how the real world of professional athletics works.

Trust is something that must be earned, and I get no satisfaction or boost to my ego, but to put it bluntly: Trust me.

There will always be exceptions, genetic rarities, that exist but on the whole it is the way it works.

I am guessing you are either very young or simply ignorant. Both are solved by time and resolve. Keep your chin up. There is more to life than sports, and far better heroes, role models and idols, than those who throw, catch, hit, pedal, kick or run.
 
SlantParallelogram said:
You don't absolutely have to be on performance enhancing drugs for any of those sports. It is totally different in pro-cycling, where most of the riders say they have to use performance enhancing drugs simply to keep their jobs.

Pro cyclists may or may not be doping "simply to keep their jobs" but if they are that has nothing to do with the length and difficulty of the races.

If we could put in place 100% effective testing and guarantee that the races were clean then they would simply be slower. Guys are doping to be fast and keep up with other riders that are doping, not simply to finish the course.

Furthermore, again even if the rules were changed to limit the max length of the races to an hour then guys would still have to dope "simply to keep their jobs" assuming testing is not 100% effective. Why? Because they couldn't go fast enough to keep up with doped riders and would get dropped.

Do you get it? It's not at all about course length and difficulty. It's about the arms race of speed that doping creates with the peloton.
 
Mar 22, 2010
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SlantParallelogram said:
That is totally untrue. Although there are people who dope in those sports, it is not needed simply to keep your job. Why would a quarterback need performance enhancing drugs? That can be said for any "skill" position in pro football. You don't have to be the fastest or strongest. It is far more dependent on the type of skills you have.

The same goes for NBA players. It is far more dependent on skill. You definitely don't need to be the strongest or fastest player. Being stronger and faster doesn't help you shoot any better.

Same story with baseball. As long as you aren't one of the "power hitters" on the team, you don't have to put up any insane hitting numbers. All you have to do is be a decent player at your position and put up "respectable" hitting numbers.

You don't absolutely have to be on performance enhancing drugs for any of those sports. It is totally different in pro-cycling, where most of the riders say they have to use performance enhancing drugs simply to keep their jobs.

I am trying harder these days to be less disagreeable. I think the shortcomings of your post were largely addressed by others. I really hope you would re-think your ideas about it because they couldn't be farther (or is it further) from reality.
 
Jun 26, 2009
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pro road racing is too hard in many respects but that is the whole point of it. If it was easy anyone could do it. Simply making the races easier or shorter will never eliminate doping. 100m sprinters are notorious dopers. Doping in cycling is like a huge vacuum, once you get to the elite level you quickly get sucked into it. Some do it to win and some do it to survive but whatever the reason for doing it we are all kidding ourselves. We are just perpetuating a culture that has existed since bike racing began. Until someone comes up with a way of changing human nature then it will always be there in some form or another.
 

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