Is Robert Gesink soft?

[The Hitch]

Sorry Chris.

Either way, Gesink, I doubt, will win the Worlds in 2012.

There's no way TGBM will let him have that victory.

I saw this coming

Waiting for someone to say "no TGBM will win instead

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I just don't see him much of a classics man. I mean, emilia and Montreal ok. But it's still very hard seeing him beat the likes of Gilbert in Liege or Lombardia. Although nowadays, nobody seems to be able to follow Gilbert anyway.

 

[El Pistolero]

I just don't see him much of a classics man. I mean, emilia and Montreal ok. But it's still very hard seeing him beat the likes of Gilbert in Liege or Lombardia. Although nowadays, nobody seems to be able to follow Gilbert anyway.

Valverde is my only guess.

Although with the new change in the Giro di Lombardia it could be harder for Gilbert.

I really really hope Gilbert wins LBL next year. Call me a fanboy, but he was the strongest this year in LBL.

 

[auscyclefan94]

There is a very big myth going around that Gesink is a good time trialler because he came 10th in the Olympic tt. NEWSFLASH, that course had sh*tloads of climbing in it. His time trial in the tds was woeful this year. Everyone was talking about how much Schleck has improved in the itt and that was only in one itt as well. Does not make you a good tt'er.

Which muppet started this thread anyway? I doubt you could say gesink is soft after la vuelta this year.

 

[hrotha]

Actually, I'd say DT is right.

2007
Romandie - P - 68th
Romandie - 5 - 35th
Dauphiné - P - 104th
Dauphiné - 3 - 55th
Deutschland-Tour 8 - 29th

2008
California - 5 - 20th
Paris-Nice - P - 106th
Crit. International - 3 - 20th
Basque Country - 6 - 5th
Belgium - 4 - 15th
Dauphiné - P - 19th
Dauphiné - 3 - 10th
Olympic Games - 10th
Vuelta - 5 - 26th
Vuelta - 20 - 9th (mountain-top TT)

2009
California - 6 - 13th
Tirreno - 5 - 6th
Basque Country - 6 - 8th
Dauphiné - 1 - 46th
Dauphiné - 4 - 13th
Tour - 1 - 30th
Vuelta - 1 - 30th
Vuelta - 7 - 28th
Vuelta - 20 - 30th

2010
Basque Country - 6 - 15th
Suisse - 1 - 48th
Suisse - 9 - 40th
Tour - P - 56th
Tour - 19 - 109th

He's only really sucked this year (and in 2007, but that's to be expected of a 21-year-old neo pro). In 2008 and 2009 he was decent, even good in short, hilly courses, and not too keen on prologues and the like.

Yes I'm bored.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

There is a very big myth going around that Gesink is a good time trialler because he came 10th in the Olympic tt. NEWSFLASH, that course had sh*tloads of climbing in it. His time trial in the tds was woeful this year. Everyone was talking about how much Schleck has improved in the itt and that was only in one itt as well. Does not make you a good tt'er.

Which muppet started this thread anyway? I doubt you could say gesink is soft after la vuelta this year.

you're ignorant, look outside the tour, and even the olympics.
Gesink has had many decent time trial performances. This year he crewed up his training (i think that's what he said) and his tt suffered.

Looks to me like Gesink could become a better classics rider than GT rider. He is still an awesome GT talent, but still has a way to go. Lets see how it goes.

World Champion 2012 on home soil???

with consistency being one of gesink's strong points, i doubt this. Plus he is great on the big steep stuff, mainly seen at GTs. He should definately stick with GT, and work on is progress there. But still give the oneday races a go..

I can't help but think that we didn't see Gesink on top form in the Tour. The fracture in his arm must have taken something out of it, or he simply peaked too early.

Gesink knows better than anyone what he can and cannot do, and he knows where he has to improve. I think he'll give Schleck a good run for the money, if not next year then in the years to come.

I agree. There is no way gesink was at his best at the tour, this was obvious i thought while watching him at the tour. The injury wouldn't have helped, but I suspect he peaked a little early also.

 

[auscyclefan94]

you're ignorant, look outside the tour, and even the olympics.
Gesink has had many decent time trial performances. This year he crewed up his training (i think that's what he said) and his tt suffered.
.

Ah, look at hrotha's list. He had some alright results in 2009 but no different to other years. races like the tdf and olympics are the big races where top competition are competing so they are good races to see if he is a strong time trialler.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I don't disagree, but gesink was at his best at this year's tour. Especially in regards to his tt ability. So to judge him on the tour, is silly.

 

[hfer07]

As much I like him, he does not make the cut for me as very serious GT contender, considering his poor TT abilities-& sometimes I have the sensation he's always under geared when climbing.... great talent nevertheless...

 

[Kwibus]

Gesink had some good progress this year. His biggest progress imo is the ability to win races with very good competition. It will be very hard for him to win races like LBL and AGR, but this year imo showed it's possible with a bit of luck.

It's hard to imagine he will be able to win the TDF though. Specially aslong as AC and AS are riding. Well there is a good chance we won't see AC this year which could provide us with a great TDF this year

He certainly should be able to win the Vuelta or Giro in the future, but I'm afraid Rabo and Holland will push him on riding the TDF every year and getting a lot of top5 results, while if he focused on the Vuelta or Giro he will be able to contend for the 1st place.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

There is a very big myth going around that Gesink is a good time trialler because he came 10th in the Olympic tt. NEWSFLASH, that course had sh*tloads of climbing in it. His time trial in the tds was woeful this year. Everyone was talking about how much Schleck has improved in the itt and that was only in one itt as well. Does not make you a good tt'er.

Which muppet started this thread anyway? I doubt you could say gesink is soft after la vuelta this year.

Wrong again Ozzie that is not the only time Gesink did good time trials.

Flat Dauphine ITT, 40km:
1. [GER] GRABSCH Bert THR 51'26" 40
2. [AUS] EVANS Cadel SIL 07" 25
3. [GBR] MILLAR David GRM 39" 15
4. [CZE] RABON Frantisek THR 40" 10
5. [ESP] CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto AST 44"
13. [NED] GESINK Robert RAB 01'43" 0

Hilly Tirreno ITT, 30km:
1. [GER] KLÖDEN Andreas AST 41'32" 40
2. [BEL] DEVOLDER Stijn QST 20" 25
3. [SWE] LÖFKVIST Thomas THR 21" 15 4. [ITA] SCARPONI Michele SDA 21" 10 5. [RUS] IGNATIEV Mikhail KAT 32" 5
6. [NED] GESINK Robert RAB 40" 3
7. [ITA] GARZELLI Stefano ASA 41" 2
8. [NOR] BOASSON HAGEN Edvald THR 52" 1
9. [GER] GERDEMANN Linus MRM 58" 0
10. [FRA] COPPEL Jérôme FDJ 01'00" 0

Other decent time trials, flat vuelta ITT's (2009)
28 Vuelta a España, Stage 7 : Valencia I.T.T.
30 Vuelta a España, Stage 20 : Toledo - Toledo I.T.T.

So apart from 2010, he's always been decent enough.
Try again ACF. Keep trying.

 

[Moondance]

Wrong again Ozzie that is not the only time Gesink did good time trials.

Flat Dauphine ITT, 40km:
1. [GER] GRABSCH Bert THR 51'26" 40
2. [AUS] EVANS Cadel SIL 07" 25
3. [GBR] MILLAR David GRM 39" 15
4. [CZE] RABON Frantisek THR 40" 10
5. [ESP] CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto AST 44"
13. [NED] GESINK Robert RAB 01'43" 0

Hilly Tirreno ITT, 30km:
1. [GER] KLÖDEN Andreas AST 41'32" 40
2. [BEL] DEVOLDER Stijn QST 20" 25
3. [SWE] LÖFKVIST Thomas THR 21" 15 4. [ITA] SCARPONI Michele SDA 21" 10 5. [RUS] IGNATIEV Mikhail KAT 32" 5
6. [NED] GESINK Robert RAB 40" 3
7. [ITA] GARZELLI Stefano ASA 41" 2
8. [NOR] BOASSON HAGEN Edvald THR 52" 1
9. [GER] GERDEMANN Linus MRM 58" 0
10. [FRA] COPPEL Jérôme FDJ 01'00" 0

Other decent time trials, flat vuelta ITT's (2009)
28 Vuelta a España, Stage 7 : Valencia I.T.T.
30 Vuelta a España, Stage 20 : Toledo - Toledo I.T.T.

So apart from 2010, he's always been decent enough.
Try again ACF. Keep trying.

So what's your theory on why his TTs in Switzerland and TdF were so poor?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Lack of practice on TT position. He even admitted that afterwards.

 

[theyoungest]

He certainly should be able to win the Vuelta or Giro in the future, but I'm afraid Rabo and Holland will push him on riding the TDF every year and getting a lot of top5 results, while if he focused on the Vuelta or Giro he will be able to contend for the 1st place.

Why do you keep insisting on Gesink having to do the Giro and Vuelta? He wants to test himself against the strongest, at the highest level. I.e. the Tour de France. It's not Rabo or the Dutch fans who push him to do so. When you get 6th at your first try, there's no reason not to assume you could podium in the future, or even more. He already knows he can contend for the Vuelta victory, he did so last year.

 

[ScottyMuser]

Why do you keep insisting on Gesink having to do the Giro and Vuelta? He wants to test himself against the strongest, at the highest level. I.e. the Tour de France. It's not Rabo or the Dutch fans who push him to do so. When you get 6th at your first try, there's no reason not to assume you could podium in the future, or even more. He already knows he can contend for the Vuelta victory, he did so last year.

I'm sorry, but thats everything thats wrong with the sport post-LA winning his first TDF. ITs NOT all about the TDF, and a win at the Giro or Vuleta is at LEAST as good as a podium (note not a win) in the TDF - just ask Menchov who thanks to his wins at each is comprehensively the better rider out of him and Evans when we look at results.

In fact in many years, a win at the giro/vuleta are much BETTER achievements then 3rd in the Tour (2009 for instance) as the parcours are frequently harder, and the riding/attacking harder too.

 

[El Pistolero]

Lack of practice on TT position. He even admitted that afterwards.

Which makes him a crappy time trial specialist.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Which makes him a crappy time trial specialist.

This year, yes, but based on hsi time trials of before (from youth till 2009) he has the potential, so he isn't crappy by nature, which is the entire point

 

[Moondance]

This year, yes, but based on hsi time trials of before (from youth till 2009) he has the potential, so he isn't crappy by nature, which is the entire point

If he's not crappy by nature how can you have regressed? Its not like you somehow forget your optimal TT position.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

You can definately regress if you don't pay enough attention to it and don't ride many time trials. He only had 2 long (30km+) time trials in whole 2010...

 

[Moondance]

You can definately regress if you don't pay enough attention to it and don't ride many time trials. He only had 2 long (30km+) time trials in whole 2010...

Alright... I will place my faith in you, for now. I take back my words about Baby Schleck being a superior TTer.

You'd better hope Gesink comes up big next year then, DT.

 

[The Hitch]

Wrong again Ozzie that is not the only time Gesink did good time trials.

Flat Dauphine ITT, 40km:
1. [GER] GRABSCH Bert THR 51'26" 40
2. [AUS] EVANS Cadel SIL 07" 25
3. [GBR] MILLAR David GRM 39" 15
4. [CZE] RABON Frantisek THR 40" 10
5. [ESP] CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto AST 44"
13. [NED] GESINK Robert RAB 01'43" 0

I get the time gaps but what are the 2nd numbers. 40 for Grabsch, 25 for Cadel 15 for Millar 0 for Gesink?

I'm sorry, but thats everything thats wrong with the sport post-LA winning his first TDF. ITs NOT all about the TDF, and a win at the Giro or Vuleta is at LEAST as good as a podium (note not a win) in the TDF - just ask Menchov who thanks to his wins at each is comprehensively the better rider out of him and Evans when we look at results.

In fact in many years, a win at the giro/vuleta are much BETTER achievements then 3rd in the Tour (2009 for instance) as the parcours are frequently harder, and the riding/attacking harder too.

+ 1 totally agree. I expect to hear the TDF is be all end all, from the July crowd but its surprising to read it in October. Many great riders dont even ride the Tour. Gilbert doesnt even though he could easily win stages. Cancellara doesnt peak for it. Nibali didnt ride it. Im surprised to see Youngest write this, being the cycling fan that he is. Is it part of a "Nibali won the Giro, but we thing Gesink is better than Nibali, so we will claim Gesinks 6th in the TDF makes him the better rider" logic going on there

Great analogy as well. Most people here see Menchov as having had a way better career than Cuddles (see poll from few months ago). If 3rd tdf = 1st Giro/ Vuelta then Cuddles two 2nd places would automatically make him way better than Menchov, even without his WC win. But this is not the case. A win in a GT is better than a runner up in a gt. Sure the TDF is more prestigious, but GT wise, Nibali has already achieved more than CUddles.

Alright... I will place my faith in you, for now.

You'd better hope Gesink comes up big next year then, DT.

Substitute "Gesink" for "Eze" and "year" for "week" and these are my exact words to Dekker.

 

[thoni66]

Losing 4 minutes in a long TT makes him a poor candidate for winning a GT. "Purito" Rodriguez also suffers the same lack of TT skills, otherwise they both would be serious GT nº1 contenders. Too skinny maybe.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

+ 1 totally agree. I expect to hear the TDF is be all end all, from the July crowd but its surprising to read it in October. Many great riders dont even ride the Tour. Gilbert doesnt even though he could easily win stages. Cancellara doesnt peak for it. Nibali didnt ride it. Im surprised to see Youngest write this, being the cycling fan that he is. Is it part of a "Nibali won the Giro, but we thing Gesink is better than Nibali, so we will claim Gesinks 6th in the TDF makes him the better rider" logic going on there

Gilbert skipped the tour and rode the vuelta entirely for worlds preparation.

Spartacus was in form at the tour. Maybe not spring form, but he was still good. Compare his tour ride to his vuelta ride.

Nibali was going to ride the tour originally, but liquigas wanted to be well repersented in italy (and have further support for basso) so called nibali up last minute to replace pellizotti.
Turned out to be great for nibali.

Weather you want to accept it or not, most cyclists, the younger riders included - prioritize the tour de france over all else. And though I agree the giro is at least equal in greatness, the Tour de france will always be considered the crème de la crème in GTs. It's easy for us to sit here on a forum and claim riders would easily win the giro and vuelta if they skip the tour.. blah blah blah, but in reality, this doesn't happen. People expecting to see gesink, nibali, anton etc to go to the giro and win next year, rather then rider another top ten at the tour better be prepared for disappointment.

Sure nibali got a 1st and 3rd at 2 GTs this year.. better than any other cyclist right..? but I wonder how many people here think he is the number 1 GT rider in the world

the youngest's logic is simple - the best riders all ride and attempt to peak for the tour, because the winner is considered the best GT rider in the world and it is, the most prestigious race.

I'm not even a tour fanboy, i prefer the giro and even the vuelta some years. But I understand why the riders, and most fans hold it in such high regard.

----

BTW I agree gesink has to improve in his TT. But he is definitely a serious GT contender, and imo will compete with the best at the tour in the coming years. I hope to see him compete with the best at all 3 GTs throughout his career though. And I refuse to believe Andy is a far and away better tt'r than gesink.

 

[Kwibus]

Why do you keep insisting on Gesink having to do the Giro and Vuelta? He wants to test himself against the strongest, at the highest level. I.e. the Tour de France. It's not Rabo or the Dutch fans who push him to do so. When you get 6th at your first try, there's no reason not to assume you could podium in the future, or even more. He already knows he can contend for the Vuelta victory, he did so last year.

I just prefer to see him win the Vuelta or Giro then seeing him end up 3rd or 4th in the Tour. He's just 24 so he has plenty of years ahead of him so I certainly won't mind seeing him fighting in the Tour. It's probably a bit early from me to insist he should ride the Vuelta or Giro instead of the Tour.
Allthough trying to win the Vuelta or Giro first before trying to win the TDF isn't a bad idea either.

 

[The Hitch]

Gilbert skipped the tour and rode the vuelta entirely for worlds preparation.

Spartacus was in form at the tour. Maybe not spring form, but he was still good. Compare his tour ride to his vuelta ride.

Nibali was going to ride the tour originally, but liquigas wanted to be well repersented in italy (and have further support for basso) so called nibali up last minute to replace pellizotti.
Turned out to be great for nibali.

Weather you want to accept it or not, most cyclists, the younger riders included - prioritize the tour de france over all else. And though I agree the giro is at least equal in greatness, the Tour de france will always be considered the crème de la crème in GTs. It's easy for us to sit here on a forum and claim riders would easily win the giro and vuelta if they skip the tour.. blah blah blah, but in reality, this doesn't happen. People expecting to see gesink, nibali, anton etc to go to the giro and win next year, rather then rider another top ten at the tour better be prepared for disappointment.

Sure nibali got a 1st and 3rd at 2 GTs this year.. better than any other cyclist right..? but I wonder how many people here think he is the number 1 GT rider in the world

the youngest's logic is simple - the best riders all ride and attempt to peak for the tour, because the winner is considered the best GT rider in the world and it is, the most prestigious race.

I'm not even a tour fanboy, i prefer the giro and even the vuelta some years. But I understand why the riders, and most fans hold it in such high regard.

----

BTW I agree gesink has to improve in his TT. But he is definitely a serious GT contender, and imo will compete with the best at the tour in the coming years. I hope to see him compete with the best at all 3 GTs throughout his career though. And I refuse to believe Andy is a far and away better tt'r than gesink.

The tour is more important yes but the point is that it is not so much more important that a podium in the Tour is worth more than a 1st in the Vuelta.

I agree that we cant say that Gesink would win the Giro/ Vuelta but i also think that - being up there in the Giro/ Vuelta and winning a stage is better than coming 6th in the tour and not contending any stages.