Is Team Columbia really clean?

[Bala Verde]

Mate, not having a go or anything, but that can't be right (your source). I mean Gerdermann won the overall Bayern Rundfahrt and Cavendish "only" won 3 stages at the Giro. That's not including wins at the Australian TT Championships (Rogers), a stage at the Tour Down Under, and two stages apiece at Qatar and California (Cavendish two apiece) and not forgetting a stage at Tirreno (you know who again) and IIRC Greipel won two stages at Dunkerque and a Philly. And before I forget Cavendish won another two stages at 3 Days of de Panne.

*phew*

I have counted 40 wins for Columbia so far, but I could be wrong.

Sorry for the inaccuracies. I didn't bother to verify the list against the database and check all the victories myself.

Anyhow, is there any indication why Linus Gerdemann (ex-T-Mobile) left Columbia for Milram?

 

[39*23t]

was wondering about linus myself but he seems to have a liking for german teams csc to t-mobile and now milram. As for highroad i think their victories is down to the quality of riders and the races they target and their team spirit. If they are doping i don't think they are on anything special from the rest of the peleton.

 

[Kazistuta]

was wondering about linus myself but he seems to have a liking for german teams csc to t-mobile and now milram. As for highroad i think their victories is down to the quality of riders and the races they target and their team spirit. If they are doping i don't think they are on anything special from the rest of the peleton.

CSC wasn't exactly German

 

[jaylew]

the time has finally come to put bb on my ignore list...
im getting bored with reading about heamocrit levels now..

Finally had to do the same. I just got tired of reading the exact same thing in virtually every thread. Yeah, we get it...

 

[jaylew]

the time has finally come to put bb on my ignore list...
im getting bored with reading about heamocrit levels now..

Finally had to do the same. I just got tired of reading the exact same thing in virtually every thread. Yeah, we get it...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

If you can't afford your own program you've come to the right place!!!

Hardly. You need to go to CuttingEdgeMuscle. This makes BigBoat's talk here look like a patsy. (Though I suspect he's RealGains, KingMassimo, or one of the others over there). I know a fair amount about doping, and am not naive to the sporting world, but don't know half of what some of those guys know.

I've also stated here on the past if you are considering doping to improve your results with E, T or anything else, DON'T DO IT. Find a good coach who will put you on a training program to increase your abilities, this will give you more consistency and likely take you further than any doping program. To up your hemoglobin, simply take a trip to somewhere like Leadville or Alma, Colorado, or Mammoth Lakes, California (or Val Thorens, Juf, Davos, etc. in Europe) and ride around that area for a while. When you get home (providing you live below 2,000' like the rest of us), you will see results.

I have to admit, though I'd like to think I've been informative, even I've been too caught up in the doping talk, and am going to try to quell it when the Tour starts, unless there's a scandal or someone pops positive. No speculative talk if I can at all avoid it.

 

[39*23t]

CSC wasn't exactly German

he left danish csc for german t mobile

 

[Bala Verde]

he left danish csc for german t mobile

and only stayed with them for half a season from May 1st till the end of the cycling calendar.

OT. I actually forgot that he said THIS

 

[Tusher]

Anyhow, is there any indication why Linus Gerdemann (ex-T-Mobile) left Columbia for Milram?[/QUOTE]



Bala, I read an interview with Linus a few months back and, from what I remember, his reasons were-
1. patriotism. He wanted to go to a German team
2. he was complimentary to Columbia

and reading between the lines,
he would be a big fish in a small pool
money



Milram have said they will pull out if they have ONE doping scandal. I realise dopers never dope thinking of what they're going to say to the press and fans when they're finally caught, but I had the impression of a clean rider hopping from one clean team to another clean team.

As regards Cav (my own favourite, so I'm biased), Dave Brailsford and British Cycling would have him hung, drawn, quartered and dangling on a pole outside the Manchester Velodrome if he was found to have doped. He would have too much to loose in the long term, methinks. And he knows it.

 

[39*23t]

and only stayed with them for half a season from May 1st till the end of the cycling calendar.

OT. I actually forgot that he said THIS

wonder if george had something to say to him about his kind words to lance

 

[patswana]

Threads like this one are why I've stopped coming on here.


I don't understand how you can avidly watch cycling and then, after every single stage or good performance, immediately write off the result as fake due to doping. Someone has to win these races. Some rider has to be the best GC rider or the best sprinter or the best TT guy or the best domestique. One team will be top of the table when it comes to race wins. But, on here, whoever is the latest person to have a bit of success or whichever rider starts to improve is immediately accused of doping.

If I was that disillusioned with a sport or activity then I would stop watching it. End of story. I certainly wouldn't be taking a keen interest or watching every race just so I can then be the first to accuse the latest stage winner or young contender or good team of being a doper. It's very very silly. And very very boring.

Imagine this scenario:

You fall in love with someone. After years of a great relationship, you start to realise that they are changing (for the worse) and you learn that they are taking drugs.

Do you:
(a) put your head in the sand and pretend that everything is just fine

or:

(b) say, "Oh well, too bad, I'll just find someone else to love" and then go and look at a bunch of other drug addicts to find a new love interest.

or:

(c) hope that your previous love will get help and get over their problems (even if you don't continue the relationship).

Maybe this will help you understand why some of us love cycling but hate the way it has become a competition to get the best medical assistance.

 

[davidg]

Imagine this scenario:

You fall in love with someone. After years of a great relationship, you start to realise that they are changing (for the worse) and you learn that they are taking drugs.

Do you:
(a) put your head in the sand and pretend that everything is just fine

or:

(b) say, "Oh well, too bad, I'll just find someone else to love" and then go and look at a bunch of other drug addicts to find a new love interest.

or:

(c) hope that your previous love will get help and get over their problems (even if you don't continue the relationship).

Maybe this will help you understand why some of us love cycling but hate the way it has become a competition to get the best medical assistance.

You missed (d) which is the way this forum works.
(d) Keep telling her every day how bad she is. Every time she talks about something else, turn the topic around to drugs and tell here how bad she is.
Assume that because she met up with friends, then they must be druggies also and speculate on how bad they are.

Getting the picture?

 

[BikeCentric]

You missed (d) which is the way this forum works.
(d) Keep telling her every day how bad she is. Every time she talks about something else, turn the topic around to drugs and tell here how bad she is.
Assume that because she met up with friends, then they must be druggies also and speculate on how bad they are.

Getting the picture?

Totally dude. It's just crazy how cycling fans talk about drugs a lot. I mean when did the sport ever give them a reason to do that?

 

[BigBoat]

Its possible that some riders on Columbia MIGHT be clean... one or two on a systematic doping team are usually (deliberately) not doped as a control.

 

[patswana]

You missed (d) which is the way this forum works.
(d) Keep telling her every day how bad she is. Every time she talks about something else, turn the topic around to drugs and tell here how bad she is.
Assume that because she met up with friends, then they must be druggies also and speculate on how bad they are.

Getting the picture?

I think that (d) is actually more like telling the neighbours repeatedly about your partner's drug issues. Talking about it on this forum is nothing like telling the partner how bad she/he is in person.

 

[BroDeal]

Finally had to do the same. I just got tired of reading the exact same thing in virtually every thread. Yeah, we get it...

That is why Flyer was eventually banned on CF. In the beginning people thought he was informative and knowledgeable. Over time it became obvious that he only knew about half as much as he thought he knew. After posting the same thing over and over in about every every thread, people just grew sick of it. At some point the behavior becomes troll-like.

 

[karlboss]

For those who missed it, big boat finally admitted someone in the pro peleton might be clean. There is snow falling somewhere it shouldn't be, i'm sure of it.

 

[BroDeal]

For those who missed it, big boat finally admitted someone in the pro peleton might be clean. There is snow falling somewhere it shouldn't be, i'm sure of it.

I thought no one could possibly finish a pro race unless they were super jacked. Ha!

 

[franciep10]

For those who missed it, big boat finally admitted someone in the pro peleton might be clean. There is snow falling somewhere it shouldn't be, i'm sure of it.

He's basically saying that they use one or two riders for reference points, noy something to jump about maybe slight hop.

 

[BroDeal]

He's basically saying that they use one or two riders for reference points, noy something to jump about maybe slight hop.

Does this explain Tommy D.?

 

[karlboss]

2 feet will leave the ground when he begrudgingly admits the tour was won clean. but you'd need to go back a fair way before I'd believe that. This latest warrants my calves flexing and my heels leaving the ground.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Its possible that some riders on Columbia MIGHT be clean... one or two on a systematic doping team are usually (deliberately) not doped as a control.

Whenever I think I'm jaded, you remind me I'm actually fairly normal.

Ahh, but you didn't say they actually finished. These must be the DNF guys.

Does this explain Tommy D.?

LOL!

 

[BigBoat]

Sometimes the new recruits on the big teams are still clean...in the old days they had "send downs" for the UCIs morning blood tests. I dont know if this happens anymore in this way though.

And now apparently (in Spain) 8/10 of the elite Juniors 15-18 tested by the spanish federation 2008 had crits right near 50%. On epo of course.

 

[msjett]

Sometimes the new recruits on the big teams are still clean...in the old days they had "send downs" for the UCIs morning blood tests. I dont know if this happens anymore in this way though.

And now apparently (in Spain) 8/10 of the elite Juniors 15-18 tested by the spanish federation 2008 had crits right near 50%. On epo of course.

BigBoat, I think you are flogging a dead horse....all I see is people running around this forum with their fingers stuck in their ears saying "lalalalalalalalalala" cause they have heard it ten times already.

I appreciate your opinion, and you have provided much insight.

But, I personally would love to you see put this passion to better use, perhaps lobbying the UCI or whoever it is to really clean up the sport!?

 

[davidg]

BigBoat, I think you are flogging a dead horse....all I see is people running around this forum with their fingers stuck in their ears saying "lalalalalalalalalala" cause they have heard it ten times already.

I appreciate your opinion, and you have provided much insight.

But, I personally would love to you see put this passion to better use, perhaps lobbying the UCI or whoever it is to really clean up the sport!?

+1............