Is UAE Over the Top?

[yaco]

Why are the Anto-Doping authorities busting a 60 year amateur athlete. What a waste of resources!

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Nah, I get what they mean. It seems a bit weird that if UAE are running a team wide doping program that has evaded detection for years, it would somehow involve Marc Soler meeting a banned soigneur in a public place. It doesn't convince me that the team is clean, but it does make me doubt some of the conspiracy theories that I read online.

I don't believe UAE has a team wide (as in involving nearly every rider) doping program. Soler didn't have a huge jump in performance there. But i do absolutely think they are doing something fishy with multiple riders, 20 july 2022 was really eye opening on that.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Remco raced in Mallorca and Valencia to get some confidence. He was winning Mickey mouse races, the first real test he had this season, he was humiliated and he expected to win UAE Tour. In Catalunya, he will be better but he will also have better competition and in better shape compared to early February (e.g. Almeida). I constantly see posts about Remco still didn't go to altitude and will improve significantly and I just ask "Is everyone bar Remco peaking in February?" Of course not, and a lot of gc riders didn't also go to altitude (e.g. Del Toro, Almeida).

If you look at who he beat in those Mickey mouse races and how they are faring since then i think you're hitting down too hard on remco. Having said that, i fully expect UAE to dominate this season. Cause in the words of someone else, they found some magical gains beyond whatever training the others are getting.

 

[canina82]

If you look at who he beat in those Mickey mouse races and how they are faring since then i think you're hitting down too hard on remco. Having said that, i fully expect UAE to dominate this season. Cause in the words of someone else, they found some magical gains beyond whatever training the others are getting.

Almeida is not good in punchy hills, specially in his first race. That's it. The rest was just poor competition.

 

[Rob5091]

Less is more for UAE apparently. Don't forget the visits to the gym -
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...nal-cyclists-riding-less-low-volume-training/

UAE Emirates-XRG riders are in the gym three times a week doing very specific exercises.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Almeida is not good in punchy hills, specially in his first race. That's it. The rest was just poor competition.

You say that but a guy like Rondel for instance have been showing good results.

 

[canina82]

You say that but a guy like Rondel for instance have been showing good results.

What impressive results did he accomplish? There is no shame in admitting Remco went to these races to get some confidence inside his new team. But we need also to be realistic and say he was beating 3rd/4th tier riders (except Almeida like I said but he isn't also known for being a good puncheur). In Catalunya, we will know for sure where he is compared to world class riders.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Morgado is a solid rider. scaroni had some nice results (admittedly not against the best comp), rondel has been riding well enough and is currently sitting 8th in Paris Nice. Tiberi has ridden well.

I'm not saying he won anything major or that he did not ride to have a good start to the season before facing the bigger guns. But you are also looking down to hard on the rest of the peloton.

Not cause the rest aren't riding for UAE and can't benefit that they are chop liver.
Whilst it's true that there is UAE and the rest of the peloton fighting with unequal weapons, that don't mean the rest of the peloton is bad.

 

[canina82]

Morgado is a solid rider. scaroni had some nice results (admittedly not against the best comp), rondel has been riding well enough and is currently sitting 8th in Paris Nice. Tiberi has ridden well.

I'm not saying he won anything major or that he did not ride to have a good start to the season before facing the bigger guns. But you are also looking down to hard on the rest of the peloton.

Not cause the rest aren't riding for UAE and can't benefit that they are chop liver.
Whilst it's true that there is UAE and the rest of the peloton fighting with unequal weapons, that don't mean the rest of the peloton is bad.

I know this is an unpopular opinion and many will have their ego hurt.
The Clinic is more and more a place not known for being a place to have deep conversations about doping and more about a psychology session where a bunch of people reunit to unleash their rage and anger because their favorite rider isn't winning (nowadays, it's very normal to see Remco fans here).

Regarding this thread, no, I don't think UAE is doing something way better than other teams (e.g. Visma, Lidl, Bora) and facts prove what I am saying.
There is only one thing UAE do better and this is due to his insane budget: Buying talent.
Let's take a look:
Pogacar - he has been there since 2019. Won Tour de l'Avenir before. No one thought he would be this good but he was talented.

Hirschi - they brought him after winning FW and almost won LBL too. Never lived to expectations (he regressed as a rider tbh)

Wellens - always had nice results in classics with Lotto (not a great team), won stages in GTs before UAE (he has 5, 1 was with UAE). What Wellens really improved in UAE was his climbing ability. But this is such a "cliché thing" with GC teams. He probably never really put an effort in improving in the mountains because he was in Lotto (a classics team). We have so many examples of powerhorses who left classics teams and improved their climbing ability. Politt, Campenaerts, WVA, Matteo Jorgenson, Benoot (a lot from Visma too). I could tell you a lot of riders from the past too.

Narvaez - they brought him after his performance in the 2024 GdI where he beat Pogacar. He is very talented, UAE almost didn't do anything different with him. Probably improved his ability in the high mountains because he was training for that before the Tour. But let's not pretend he was climbing 4 or 5 kms in the front while dropping everyone. No, he was sprinting (zone 6) at the bottom of Hautacam and Combloux where others couldn't sprint because they still had 6 or 12 kms to climb.

Soler - is he really way better than what we saw from him in Movistar? No.

Sivakov - the same. He was in fact considered a big talent but UAE didn't change anything (nothing extraordinary with his work in the Tour). He is on his way to Decathlon now.

Del Toro - He is a talented rider, even before joining UAE. Sometimes they (UAE) are right.

Ayuso - he didn't live to expectations (was a huge talent just like Del Toro). Someone really believe he is worse in Lidl? I don't.

Almeida - huge young talent, they brought him from Quickstep.

McNulty - another talent they brought

Vine -was already very good before joining UAE. It's not like he is doing something otherwordly.

Yates - talented climber since GreenEdge. He improved a lot in 2023 (where he came to UAE).

Do you want to know more riders they had?
Ganna
Philipsen


Do they have a significant better doping program than most teams? I think so. Do they have a significant better doping program than Visma, Lidl or Bora? No, they don't.
They just are deeply talented due to their big budget and good scouting. Now imagine them with Hirschi, Ganna and Philipsen on their team. They would win 120 races.

Why is UAE talked so much? Because of Pogacar. His level is otherworldly but those who are not his fans (you included) just come here regularly saying he is bad for the sport. This only happens because some other riders fans (mainly Remco, I could write here 4 or 5 of them) can't stand the fact Remco is nowhere near the level of Pogacar in any race (except TTs). Now add, another young talent (Del Toro) who is also threatening his dream of winning the TdF (ending their thought of Remco winning the Tour after Vingegaard and Pogacar's decline) and it's the perfect storm.
I don't give much time until those fans start to hate on Seixas.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I have to disagree. I see a clear gap. Wellens for instance has clearly improved and he is in the twilight of his career atm. their lesser guys are also competing with the stars of other teams. people like Vine, Mcnulty Berg, Politt, Soler are all suspect as well when looking at some of their performances.

I also think they have a better program ever since Pogacar soundly beat Vingegaard a couple of years back.
The jump was ludicrous, and if you look at the jump in wins by UAE the difference also becomes quite clear.
From a stable 30 wins per season they went to 48, 57, 81, 97, and whatever it will be this year.

Those numers may not be perfectly accurate, i just know they have ballooned last couple of years.
trying to find accurate numbers, but haven't found numbers i'm 100% certain of.

PCS has

Lidl 19 - 19-27-42-46
Visma 43 - 48-69-32-40
Soudal 65- 47-55-34-54
Bora 30- 30-23-24-23
Ineos 35- 39-38-14-28
Alpecin 33- 34-35-26-18

UAE 32- 48-57-81-97

Decathlon was nowhere a couple of years ago but has been rising. Lidl are on the ascent, but UAE has truly ballooned. Visma hit his peak couple of seasons ago but has since declined. Soudal held steady cause of sprints and remco but will decline this year. Bora has not made much of a dent yet. Ineos, Alpecin and Ineos have declined.

It is clear though that no one can hold a torch to current UAE. Visma kept pace for awhile but has since fallen of. Since 2024 they have been in a league of their own. They had 81 wins in 2024. second best had 42. They had 97 wins in 2025. Second best was 54. That's a whole other team stacked upon second best basically. the closest resemblance i could find in dominations of team wins was Columbia-HTC in 2009 on Pcs. And they had Greipel and Cavendish providing a ton of sprint wins. meanwhile UAE is easily grabbing a major part of their wins at bigger races.

Currently they sit at 15 wins. Next in line is red Bull cause of remco wins in the early races. And the only reason the gap isn't even bigger is cause UAE hitting the calender with their top dogs later.

 

[canina82]

I have to disagree. I see a clear gap. Wellens for instance has clearly improved and he is in the twilight of his career atm. their lesser guys are also competing with the stars of other teams. people like Vine, Mcnulty Berg, Politt, Soler are all suspect as well when looking at some of their performances.

I also think they have a better program ever since Pogacar soundly beat Vingegaard a couple of years back.
The jump was ludicrous, and if you look at the jump in wins by UAE the difference also becomes quite clear.
From a stable 30 wins per season they went to 48, 57, 81, 97, and whatever it will be this year.
Those numers may not be perfectly accurate, i just know they have ballooned last couple of years.
trying to find accurate numbers, but haven't found numbers i'm 100% certain of.

Campenaerts is doing the same as Wellens for example. Like I said, he improved his climbing ability because he actually practised more in the mountains compared to his time in Lotto.
Bjerg?
McNulty always was a good talent before joining UAE and it's not like he is winning important races
Soler?
Politt? He didn't even win a race in 2025
Vine? He was discovered on Zwift and had a incredible Vuelta with Alpecin.
You can say whatever you want, this will not the fact that most riders in UAE received a contract because they were already good riders/talents before joining them.
Soler, Wellens, Politt, Sivakov, Mcnulty, Del Toro, Narvaez, Yates.

Regarding 2024, are you really arguing Pogacar was the only one who improved 10% that year? This was a strange year to everyone. In the Tour even your beloved Remco, improved 10% compared to 2022 Vuelta. Vingegaard improved a lot compared to 2023 and he was layed down on a bed 12 weeks earlier, fighting with a possible career ending injury.

Again, you can feel anger, rage, whatever emotion you have been feeling, this will not change the fact UAE wins so much due to their deep roster and the possibility to use multiple cards in races (specially small races) and outnumber the competition.
I will never believe UAE is doing something better than Visma when I see riders like Wout, Matteo, Kuss, Laporte, Vingegaard (a much notorious rise than Pogacar) doing things most UAE couldn't do.

Kuss won a GT! Visma swept the podium. Matteo is now winning major one week stage races too and it's not like he was a GC rider his entire career like Ayuso, Almeida or Del Toro.
Laporte has better results than Wellens, Narvaez in classics.
Wout is washed because of multiple crashes. Before that, he was winning stages in every terrain.
Campenaerts is now a climber too, if you want to say Wellens is fishy, what about Victor who is following a similar path?

Of course the sport is not clean (any team) and UAE is better than most teams due to also a better doping program (not the main reason. The main reason is their roster full of talent) but better than Visma, Redbull or Lidl? No, absolutely not.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Campenaerts is not doing the same as wellens. It's also not only about winning but how they dominate a race with their domestiques. A guy like Berg, Politt is destroying the field before the top dogs of UAE step up.

I'm not saying the others are saints. But the magical gains of UAE are beyond the other teams. Stats don't lie.
they can be manipulated but they do not lie.

At the end of this season UAE will probably once again have +40 wins over the next best team.
that would mark the third consecutive year of barely seen domincance, whilst also being among the more dominant teams before that.

It's also funny how you try to reduce this to anger of Remco fanboys. I 'm not the only one making comments here am I. And i have no idea about who they support. Nor was the drop too much for me even in a race in which remco participated.

 

[canina82]

Campenaerts is not doing the same as wellens. It's also not only about winning but how they dominate a race with their domestiques. A guy like Berg, Politt is destroying the field before the top dogs of UAE step up.

I'm not saying the others are saints. But the magical gains of UAE are beyond the other teams. Stats don't lie.
they can be manipulated but they do not lie.

Bjerg and Politt? Where did you see Bjerg and Politt destroying a peloton? I want to know in what race did you see a peloton reduced to 20 riders because of them. Or just because the peloton is a group of 40 riders (where 100 of them are sprinters/or domestiques in sprint teams and breakaway type of riders, who are not in the front and want to rest for other stages) is considered destroying a peloton?

Regarding Campenaerts, what was Wellens able to make by sheer power that Campenaerts can't do? I will just leave here: 2025 TdF stage 18. See what Campenaerts could do. I could also add stage 12 but stage 18 is good.

 

[canina82]

UAE will win way less this year (under 80 wins) This means they are doping less or they just have less talent (with injuries also hampering them)? I say less talent because they lost Ayuso and Yates is declining.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I take it you did not watch them drag the peloton around.
Wellens is not the same as campenaerts, you can try and make that argument and will only fail.

UAE is at 15 mid March.... so no idea how you believe they will not get a high number of wins by seasons end.
It's also about the gap between them and second best. Which will be huge for a third time in a row.

 

[canina82]

I take it you did not watch them drag the peloton around.
Wellens is not the same as campenaerts, you can try and make that argument and will only fail.

UAE is at 15 mid March.... so no idea how you believe they will not get a high number of wins by seasons end.
It's also about the gap between them and second best. Which will be huge for a third time in a row.

In the end, we will see if they even reach 80 wins.
It's clear they have a much deeper roster than other teams and for that reason they win a lot. In the end, I'm pretty sure only 2 riders will win important classics or important stage races, Pogacar and Del Toro. Others will just farm smaller races like they always do. But since you don't care about context and only about wins, I can also say Remco is clearly on a better doping program because he already has more road races wins this year compared to last year.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Yes cause other teams don't have money and don't buy talent....

Also you made things personal, and brought things outta context into this. Not me.
But by indulging & responding to you i'll be once again made out to be the bad guy... whatever.

 

[canina82]

Yesc cause other teams don't have money and don't buy talent....

Let's finish this conversation. It's pointless. It was you who brought me into this thread and I will perfectly avoid it in the future. Like I said, this is more a place to non Pogacar fans to share their frustrations. Not gonna contribute to that.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I only responded with honesty. Something i can't do in the regular forum and therefore can't have a deep conversation there without getting banned. I see what I see, and if i comment and be honest there it's too much.

So i respectfully disagree with your assessment of this part of the forum. It seems more like what you want to reduce this part of the forum to in your mind.

 

[aphronesis]

Let's finish this conversation. It's pointless. It was you who brought me into this thread and I will perfectly avoid it in the future. Like I said, this is more a place to non Pogacar fans to share their frustrations. Not gonna contribute to that.

The point of this subforum has never been for non-fans even if that’s the (sometimes absurd) shape it can take.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Del Toro wins Tirreno , he says not the shape i wanted to be in...

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

I know this is an unpopular opinion and many will have their ego hurt.
The Clinic is more and more a place not known for being a place to have deep conversations about doping and more about a psychology session where a bunch of people reunit to unleash their rage and anger because their favorite rider isn't winning (nowadays, it's very normal to see Remco fans here).

Regarding this thread, no, I don't think UAE is doing something way better than other teams (e.g. Visma, Lidl, Bora) and facts prove what I am saying.
There is only one thing UAE do better and this is due to his insane budget: Buying talent.
Let's take a look:
Pogacar - he has been there since 2019. Won Tour de l'Avenir before. No one thought he would be this good but he was talented.

Hirschi - they brought him after winning FW and almost won LBL too. Never lived to expectations (he regressed as a rider tbh)

Wellens - always had nice results in classics with Lotto (not a great team), won stages in GTs before UAE (he has 5, 1 was with UAE). What Wellens really improved in UAE was his climbing ability. But this is such a "cliché thing" with GC teams. He probably never really put an effort in improving in the mountains because he was in Lotto (a classics team). We have so many examples of powerhorses who left classics teams and improved their climbing ability. Politt, Campenaerts, WVA, Matteo Jorgenson, Benoot (a lot from Visma too). I could tell you a lot of riders from the past too.

Narvaez - they brought him after his performance in the 2024 GdI where he beat Pogacar. He is very talented, UAE almost didn't do anything different with him. Probably improved his ability in the high mountains because he was training for that before the Tour. But let's not pretend he was climbing 4 or 5 kms in the front while dropping everyone. No, he was sprinting (zone 6) at the bottom of Hautacam and Combloux where others couldn't sprint because they still had 6 or 12 kms to climb.

Soler - is he really way better than what we saw from him in Movistar? No.

Sivakov - the same. He was in fact considered a big talent but UAE didn't change anything (nothing extraordinary with his work in the Tour). He is on his way to Decathlon now.

Del Toro - He is a talented rider, even before joining UAE. Sometimes they (UAE) are right.

Ayuso - he didn't live to expectations (was a huge talent just like Del Toro). Someone really believe he is worse in Lidl? I don't.

Almeida - huge young talent, they brought him from Quickstep.

McNulty - another talent they brought

Vine -was already very good before joining UAE. It's not like he is doing something otherwordly.

Yates - talented climber since GreenEdge. He improved a lot in 2023 (where he came to UAE).

Do you want to know more riders they had?
Ganna
Philipsen


Do they have a significant better doping program than most teams? I think so. Do they have a significant better doping program than Visma, Lidl or Bora? No, they don't.
They just are deeply talented due to their big budget and good scouting. Now imagine them with Hirschi, Ganna and Philipsen on their team. They would win 120 races.

Why is UAE talked so much? Because of Pogacar. His level is otherworldly but those who are not his fans (you included) just come here regularly saying he is bad for the sport. This only happens because some other riders fans (mainly Remco, I could write here 4 or 5 of them) can't stand the fact Remco is nowhere near the level of Pogacar in any race (except TTs). Now add, another young talent (Del Toro) who is also threatening his dream of winning the TdF (ending their thought of Remco winning the Tour after Vingegaard and Pogacar's decline) and it's the perfect storm.
I don't give much time until those fans start to hate on Seixas.

Pogacar was involved with UAE before he won the Tour de l'Avenir in 2018. UAE announced his signing on 22/8/2018, in the middle of that race.
If you think Pogacar is so talented, look at his results prior to signing for UAE. They're not special, especially if you compare them to Evenepoel or Seixas.
So we can observe 3 jumps in form.
1. Tour de l'Avenir 2018 compared to earlier seasons after signing for UAE
2. 2019 Season in which he dominated pros, while he couldn't do the same with U23 in prior seasons.
3. 2024-2026 as if 2019-2023 wasn't crazy enough.

Del Toro is a similar story. He won next to nothing in his first 3 seasons and his first spectacular result is in the season when he signed for UAE. Subsequently he starts dominating the pros on nearly any terrain.

Many riders at UAE perform(ed) within reasonable expectations. They're not the focus in the clinic. Ayuso is a great example. He was by far the most talented rider UAE ever signed, but he never reached suspicious intergalactic levels like the Slovenian. I wonder why.

I can't speak for everyone, but your conspiracy theories make no sense to me. The main reason many people in the clinic focus on UAE, is that this kind of absurd domination of one rider has never occurred before and it happens under the guidance of two of the most corrupt people in cycling.
This domination happens on any terrain, in one day races, 1-week stage races and grand tours with considerable ease.
That's not the cycling most of us look forward to.

 

[Red Rick]

When they can crank riders up like Pogacar at will, why would they do it with everyone? Ofcourse some dudes just need to be domestiques.

The on demandness of the performance was never clearer than Planche de Belles Filles.

 

[canina82]

Pogacar was involved with UAE before he won the Tour de l'Avenir in 2018. UAE announced his signing on 22/8/2018, in the middle of that race.
If you think Pogacar is so talented, look at his results prior to signing for UAE. They're not special, especially if you compare them to Evenepoel or Seixas.
So we can observe 3 jumps in form.
1. Tour de l'Avenir 2018 compared to earlier seasons after signing for UAE
2. 2019 Season in which he dominated pros, while he couldn't do the same with U23 in prior seasons.
3. 2024-2026 as if 2019-2023 wasn't crazy enough.

Del Toro is a similar story. He won next to nothing in his first 3 seasons and his first spectacular result is in the season when he signed for UAE. Subsequently he starts dominating the pros on nearly any terrain.

Many riders at UAE perform(ed) within reasonable expectations. They're not the focus in the clinic. Ayuso is a great example. He was by far the most talented rider UAE ever signed, but he never reached suspicious intergalactic levels like the Slovenian. I wonder why.

I can't speak for everyone, but your conspiracy theories make no sense to me. The main reason many people in the clinic focus on UAE, is that this kind of absurd domination of one rider has never occurred before and it happens under the guidance of two of the most corrupt people in cycling.
This domination happens on any terrain, in one day races, 1-week stage races and grand tours with considerable ease.
That's not the cycling most of us look forward to.

But this is exactly what I have been saying. Only Pogacar has been really otherwordly. The other user has been saying it's all UAE, Wellens, Narvaez, Politt, Soler, Bjerg, Vine, etc. All these riders didn't get much better results compared to their old selves in other teams. But like I said, I don't think UAE has a better doping program than Visma, Lidl or Bora.

I'm yet to see any evidence of Pogacar working with UAE before Tour de l'Avenir.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

When they can crank riders up like Pogacar at will, why would they do it with everyone? Ofcourse some dudes just need to be domestiques.

The on demandness of the performance was never clearer than Planche de Belles Filles.

The Peyragudes stage in 2022 was a sight to behold too.