Is Walsh on the Sky bandwagon?

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May 26, 2010
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gooner said:
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I think you will find there is a huge number over here who have big suspicions on Sky. All you had to do was listen to Walsh's interview last night and see the reaction from the Irish listeners. Ger Gilroy, the presenter who interviewed him said afterwards the majority were in disagreement with Walsh by the tweets and texts they received.
It was Joe who interviewed Walsh, not Ger Kilroy.
 
Merckx index said:
The part about Sky working harder than everyone else rings phony to me. Anyone who has pursued a sport (or some other profession) seriously knows that progress is not linearly related to hours put in, that there can be such a thing as overtraining or overworking, and that taking a break and doing something entirely different can be very beneficial. Does he really, seriously believe that Sky has discovered that by working two hours a day more than other teams, they can get much better results? That if it were that simple, no one else would have ever figured that out?

The notion that someone drinking a beer once in a while is evidence of not being serious enough is BS. Frankly, I am really, really sick of the insinuation that any world class athlete gets there because he works harder than everyone else. Sometimes it’s easier to just keep training beyond the point that it has benefits, sometimes it’s actually harder to stop and break the routine. The book The Sports Gene, which I have discussed here on other threads, notes that some athletes benefit far more from the same amount of training than others. Some athletes have a very high natural untrained talent level, others have a very high natural response to training. But it definitely explodes the myth that “I work harder” is a sufficient explanation for success in sports. Walsh seriously implies that until Sky came along, professional cycling was dominated by riders and teams that trained only half-heartedly, ripe for the picking by people who were actually dedicated.

And sure, there are always talented athletes who are above everyone else. But Tiger Woods is not a very wise example, given the evidence that he has doped.
Absolutely fantastic summary MI. Brilliantly written and argued analysis that totally smashes to pieces the -buh buh but they train harder, argument.
 
Aug 8, 2013
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High Octane said:
Again, well done for trying to get substantive, but nobody in the field has raised alarm bells about Froome's V02 max. According to Vaughters, who has a large V02 max himself but could not match greats from previous eras with a lower v02 than he, it's not a very good way to judge a riders capabilities anyway. I'm not saying it's completely without merit - if there is some data on Froome's V02, that would be interesting to see. But it's rather ridiculous to accuse Walsh of dishonour because he hasn't performed a V02 max on Froome.
Sky have very conveniently never measured his vo2 max
 
May 26, 2010
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Walsh's explanation of Froome's Bilharzia was pathetic. he says it 40% of Africans live with Bilharzia and apparently european doctors dont know how to treat this disease which is in 40% of Africans because they are clueless and hardly heard of Bilharzia!

It was the UCI that found it in Froome. the treatment, biltiricide knocks you out for a week. Doesn't explain why he went from zero to podium at laVuelta and would've won it except for Wigans.

Walsh says Froome felt inferior in the mountains. Tactically hopeless. Sky didn't use radios in 2010 or most of 2011 did they not?

Walsh also says Sky were really impressed with Froome before Vuelta and wanted just to work for Wigans.

Walsh gives the impression that Froome was a leader in Sky who was tactically inept who had an inferiority complex and would attack early in the mountains and then when it came to La Vuelta '11 he was asked to then play the role of domestique and only work for Wigans and Froome found this the easiest thing in the world.

Well it is all very hollywood.

Chris Froome is the kid who pulled the sword from the stone

Walsh's miracle Chris Froome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuwjulyW4Kc
 

martinvickers

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Oct 15, 2012
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Be truthfull martin, there are 3 pages about this subject in the book and then? Nothing.

I think this meeting never took place and Team Sky set up Grappe with 'the 18 X - Files' from Froome after his transformation at the Vuelta 2011.
I'm being perfectly truthful. You asked was setting up the meeting mentioned in the book, I said it was.

It was.

I also said I don't recall anythng on the actual meeting.

Now, do you want to tell me where the lie is here, or maybe you can just man up and apologise for the slur.
 
May 26, 2010
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mikeoneill said:
Sky have very conveniently never measured his vo2 max
Doe Walsh ask Kerrison why they never measured Froome's Vo2max?

As an aside dont all riders have to undergo a medical prior to competing in the TdF and is the Vo2max not measured then? Remember seeing pics of Armstrong all masked up!

Also plenty of images of Scarponi and Cunego at the mapei centre doing their sport scientists stuff during winter'12

The evaluations were made by Lampre-ISD’s Doctor Guardascione who explained the tests, "The tests were for endurance and Vo2max. They allow us to measure the fitness of the athlete and they are very useful in planning the winter training program. Considering the results and the characteristics of the athlete we’ll give Cunego a precise program of preparation in view of the next season, even if the race program for the rider have not yet been decided."
http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.ie/2011/10/another-cycle-begins-for-damiano-cunego.html
 
May 26, 2010
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martinvickers said:
Because you explicitly want to see and be entertained by what you consider evidence of doping, while decrying doping.
You are reduced to accusing posters of wanting doping.

That is trolling this thread.
 
mikeoneill said:
Sky have very conveniently never measured his vo2 max
Of course they have. Everyone does these tests. They just prefer to say they haven't measured it, instead of telling the truth which is that they don't want to share it.

I know for a fact that Sky measured Nordhaug and EBH's VO2 max, so there's no way they didn't do Froome's as well.
 

martinvickers

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Oct 15, 2012
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The Hitch said:
Ho ho, hold the phone.

Does Walsh say froome requires chemotherapy for bilharzia? That goes against everything sky have ever said. Froome said earlier this year all his treatments involve biltricide and named the effects of his ongoing biltricide treatment
No he doesn't, that's just a reading error - he specifically states he DIDN'T need chemo, but that that fact was used to downplay the seriousness of the illness, and the medication he actual took.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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martinvickers said:
Now, do you want to tell me where the lie is here, or maybe you can just man up and apologise for the slur.
I asked you to be truthfull.

Chapter 13:
After Ventoux, the situation looked like Vayer standing in a small room and berating Froome for being a cheat. Antoine says, though, that all he is doing is letting people decide for themselves. So on the Tuesday of this week, Vayer emailed Brailsford and asked to meet him. A totally off-the-record, no-journalists-present meeting. He hoped Brailsford would be able to give him the information that could, perhaps, allow Vayer to believe in Froome.

Brailsford asks me if I know Antoine. I say I do. Antoine and I are friends and I add that his anti-doping stance while working for Festina was seriously admirable.
So, tell me, where did Walsh set up a meeting?
 
Aug 8, 2013
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maltiv said:
Of course they have. Everyone does these tests. They just prefer to say they haven't measured it, instead of telling the truth which is that they don't want to share it.

I know for a fact that Sky measured Nordhaug and EBH's VO2 max, so there's no way they didn't
did they tell fred grappe?
he didn't seem to know either when examining all the data
he said it must be 'close to known physiological limits'
 
May 26, 2010
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mikeoneill said:
did they tell fred grappe?
he didn't seem to know either when examining all the data
he said it must be 'close to known physiological limits'
all the data? or just the data given to Grappe.
 
martinvickers said:
Because you explicitly want to see and be entertained by what you consider evidence of doping, while decrying doping.
Well you're wrong there, so get your facts straight before accusing people of being hypocrites. For probably three years I'm pretty sure I haven't "decried" anyone for doping.
 
Aug 8, 2013
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Benotti69 said:
all the data? or just the data given to Grappe.
the bit they gave him...

he concluded that froomes vo2max must be at the extreme physiological limit to explain his performances

he would have been able to confirm his findings if he had the actual test results and help sky's case

so if they had the vo2max and it correlated with Mr grappes estimates,why didn't they give it to him
 
Oct 24, 2012
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Benotti69 said:
Really dislike the Armstrong winning twice argument and the idea that he is the one who gave us the fraudulent performance and is the reason to doubt Sky/Froome. It's sort of forgetting the long list of GT winners/contenders that have been sanctioned pretty much up to the year Sky started winning. Maybe he really gave up on following cycling in 2004 and it sort of sounds to me like JV/Sky filled him in on what happened between 2004 and 2011. At least the Gun-to-my-head method of reasoning sounds very JV to me, but maybe it really is a common thing to say. I've just always assumed that guns don't necessarily improve ones reasoning but guess I'm just soft like that.
 
This thread has broken the record for reported posts....and for a very good reason.

For the love of god will you lot act with a bit of decorum. Read the posting guidelines, and FFS pay attention to them. Racism, personal attacks, accusations of sockpuppetry, trolling, baiting, harassing etc are not acceptable on this or other forums.

Have a think about how you want to proceed gentle(wo)men. Your fate is in your capable hands

Cheers
Bison
 
I would love to see a doctor (and not one on the Sky Pay role) explain the treatment of Badzilla.

From what I have read its pretty simple unless I am missing something.

The Dawg's VO2 must have been checked, Sly aint that amateurish. They just dont want to be transparent.
 
May 31, 2013
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maltiv said:
Of course they have. Everyone does these tests. They just prefer to say they haven't measured it, instead of telling the truth which is that they don't want to share it.

I know for a fact that Sky measured Nordhaug and EBH's VO2 max, so there's no way they didn't do Froome's as well.
Just out of interest how do you know? And what were their results?
 
High Octane said:
All there is against Froome is one particular time on one particular day in one particular set of conditions. It would be very hard to convince anybody who knows about cycling that this proves Froome is doping.
Well, a lot of people seem to think Froome's on something, so this statement boils down to "if you think Froome's doping you know nothing about cycling", which is frankly not very helpful as an argument.

High Octane said:
None of this proves Froome is not doping, of course, but you need to provide an argument that holds merit and has integrity before attacking Walsh. It's not good to smear someone like Walsh because he won't say what you want him to say.
I think Walsh is getting laughed at here not for saying "Froome is clean" so much as "Froome is clean because of reason X", where X is clearly not a sound line of reasoning.
 

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