Is Walsh on the Sky bandwagon?

[thehog]

Was there 300,000+ at Irish corner?

Ŵhere is Irish corner?

 

[gooner]

Ŵhere is Irish corner?

Corner 10 in the above picture.

 

[sniper]

What on earth has this got to do with defending doping allegations with Sky? Do you think we should excuse behaviour like smashing eggs and beers off cars now? These idiots deserve to be shown up for the behaviour irrespective of where they come from.

don't know what your point is, but mine is clear:
walsh rethorics wrt Froome/Sky are in several ways similar to the rethorics guys like Liggett used to use wrt USPS/Lance

in this case the message is something like:
"poor armstrong, having to take the abuse of 'fans', lets call them haters (mostly bitter french cycling fans of course), unwilling to recognize that cycling has cleaned up"

im guessing, gooner, you must have thought "poor froome" when reading that walsh paragraph?

 

[gooner]

don't know what your point is, but mine is clear:
walsh rethorics wrt Froome/Sky are in several ways similar to the rethorics guys like Liggett used to use wrt USPS/Lance

in this case the message is something like:
"poor armstrong, having to take the abuse of 'fans', lets call them haters (mostly bitter french cycling fans of course), unwilling to recognize that cycling has cleaned up"

im guessing, gooner, you must have thought "poor froome" when reading that walsh paragraph?

To be against doping, I must smash eggs and beer off team cars who I suspect of having a doping programme.

There is a line you draw or do we say everything is off limits when it comes to being suspicious of doping.

 

[thehog]

Corner 10 in the above picture.

You mean this Irish Corner in the video?

The one with the Irish fans cheering Porte and Froome as they fly by at record speed?

The corner where one of the nasty abusive Irish people assists the Frnech police in doing their job?

Shocking. Never seen so much abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrqMHry5kCQ&sns=em

Well done to Porte though. Certainly would trust him in a police lineup to pick the right guy

Really it's a storm in a teacup and Walsh was wrong as was Porte.

However you prove how dangerous his words are now that he has exclusive access. It can be mistaken for journalism when in fact it's PR.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You mean this Irish Corner in the video?

The one with the Irish fans cheering Porte and Froome as they fly by at record speed?

The corner where one of the nasty abusive Irish people assists the Frnech police in doing their job?

Shocking. Never seen so much abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrqMHry5kCQ&sns=em

Well done to Porte though. Certainly would trust him in a police lineup to pick the right guy

Really it's a storm in a teacup and Walsh was wrong as was Porte.

However you prove how dangerous his words are now that he has exclusive access. It can be mistaken for journalism when in fact it's PR.

Porte and Froome rode up at record speed? I did not know that, you might wish to back up this new revelation.

Indeed the video showed that some French fans had been locked in their van because they had been abusive on the first lap.

They are also the ones who are believed to be responsible for these flags on Irish corner.

 

[thehog]

You mean this Irish Corner in the video?

The one with the Irish fans cheering Porte and Froome as they fly by at record speed?

The corner where one of the nasty abusive Irish people assists the Frnech police in doing their job?

Shocking. Never seen so much abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrqMHry5kCQ&sns=em

Well done to Porte though. Certainly would trust him in a police lineup to pick the right guy

Really it's a storm in a teacup and Walsh was wrong as was Porte.

However you prove how dangerous his words are now that he has exclusive access. It can be mistaken for journalism when in fact it's PR.

Should have said in I see many flags here not just Irish. Not sure how Porte and Walsh concluded the Irish fans were abusive.

The Stickybottle articles backs this up along with Walsh's apology.

Again storm in a tea cup where Walsh shouldn't have pointed the finger at one nationality.

As Porte would know Australian sporting fans are the worst behaved of any nation. Not sure what he was getting at here or trying to achieve.

A little aggressive for my liking.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Should have said in I see many flags here not just Irish. Not sure how Porte and Walsh concluded the Irish fans were abusive.

The Stickybottle articles backs this up along with Walsh's apology.

Again storm in a tea cup where Walsh shouldn't have pointed the finger at one nationality.

As Porte would know Australian sporting fans are the worst behaved of any nation. Not sure what he was getting at here or trying to achieve.

A little aggressive for my liking.

Did you actually read the Walsh article - he did not point the finger at one nationality.

 

[thrawn]

As Porte would know Australian sporting fans are the worst behaved of any nation. Not sure what he was getting at here or trying to achieve.
.

Lies. Worst behaving sporting stars maybe

 

[thehog]

Lies. Worst behaving sporting stars maybe

Haha! You are right. Australian fans and sport stars are very poorly behaved!

 

[sniper]

To be against doping, I must smash eggs and beer off team cars who I suspect of having a doping programme.

There is a line you draw or do we say everything is off limits when it comes to being suspicious of doping.

terrorism is never a solution, but walsh should know it's merely a sign of anger brewing underneath the surface.
he of all people should take that anger very seriously, but he's not.
his message is the angry mob have no reason to be angry, since this is new cycling and the fans better start acknowledging that.

It was his good fortune to enter the sport when anti-doping controls were becoming more effective and attitudes changing. As for the mob reaction on Thursday, it was a reminder of how Lance Armstrong was regarded. Once he was the most loved sportsman on the planet. Partly because of that betrayal, the mob was baying for Froome's blood on the Alpe. They were wrong when Armstrong was winning. And they are wrong now about Froome.

History will correct this, as it did the Armstrong story.

 

[thehog]

Should have said in I see many flags here not just Irish. Not sure how Porte and Walsh concluded the Irish fans were abusive.

The Stickybottle articles backs this up along with Walsh's apology.

Again storm in a tea cup where Walsh shouldn't have pointed the finger at one nationality.

As Porte would know Australian sporting fans are the worst behaved of any nation. Not sure what he was getting at here or trying to achieve.

A little aggressive for my liking.

The Irish fans actually wrote to Froome and Cound responded.

Yesterday I posted our statement to the "Contact Me" link on Chris Froome's website. I've just got this reply from Michelle Cound:

Hi,

Thanks for getting in touch Ronan, I read your email to Chris & he was quite relieved to hear that it wasn't the Irish fans that had treated him that way.

I really think these issues need to be raised with the ASO, and that there needs to be additional security for the riders. I don't want it to be a situation where a rider is seriously injured before something is done about it!

Thank you & hope you managed to enjoy the tour regardless.

All the best,
Michelle

I think summed up well by Steven O'Shea.

The hundreds, indeed thousands, of genuine, well behaved, Irish (and indeed Dutch) fans who enjoyed a great day out on Alpe D'Huez do not deserve to be branded hooligans by someone who wasn't there.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The Irish fans actually wrote to Froome and Cound responded.



I think summed up well by Steven O'Shea.

Alan Farrell was in the car - so he was there. As was Froome who in your unattributed piece said Chris was "relieved" that it turns out not to have been the Irish fans. Which of course, Walsh did not single out in the first instance as you stated.

 

[thehog]

To be against doping, I must smash eggs and beer off team cars who I suspect of having a doping programme.

There is a line you draw or do we say everything is off limits when it comes to being suspicious of doping.

Not excusing the behaviour but for the French it's a bigger problem than just doped up cyclists.

The French for years have had to put up with teams of cyclists and their doctors pushing drugs across their country and into their sports.

It's not just a Tour problem but of organised crime in their country. So, yes, I understand why they get angry at doping. It's just not seeing riders perform miracles on the bike it just means behind every doped cyclist there's a network of drugs which French have to deal with when the cyclist has long gone back to their home country.

Still it's not one nation we are speaking of here. Not sure why Walsh wanted to drill it down to one country and start pointing fingers.

 

[gooner]

Not excusing the behaviour but for the French it's a bigger problem than just doped up cyclists.

The French for years have had to put up with teams of cyclists and their doctors pushing drugs across their country and into their sports.

It's not just a Tour problem but of organised crime in their country. So, yes, I understand why they get angry at doping. It's just not seeing riders perform miracles on the bike it just means behind every doped cyclist there's a network of drugs which French have to deal with when the cyclist has long gone back to their home country.

Still it's not one nation we are speaking of here. Not sure why Walsh wanted to drill it down to one country and start pointing fingers.

Walsh didn't single out one nation. Again I repeat he said he had "multiple conversations" with people at Sky and said Irish corner and Dutch corner was the worst. Yes, there was French(I'm sure they were at it) at the Irish one but Porte said the abuse he got was not by them. This was after Walsh's apology where he said he had chats with Irish who were there and got many emails who said it was the French who did it. It's obvious Walsh put what the Irish said about the French when he asked Porte about this at San Sebastian. Notice Walsh never tweeted that Porte said they weren't Irish. Remember Walsh apologised for generalising the Irish corner. That still doesn't mean there wasn't a minority of them giving stick to Porte. Plus in the video earlier, the corner is further back down the road where the majority of the Irish were. A small number of fans in isolation is not the corner as a whole or many fans as a group who dominated it. That can be spun easily. Similiar if a group of fans in a football stand were giving vitriol abuse to a player, a simple video in another area of that same said stand might show nothing like that.

Regarding the bolded in your post:

Eggs smashed against the cars, beer too, and when a car slowed enough for the jeering mob to rock it from side to side, that's what they did. The abuse was worst at those parts of the climb populated by Irish and Dutch fans. "Froome Dope" was one of the bigger signs at the Irish corner. All the way up to the top there were fans screaming at Sky riders while mimicking the act of injecting into their arms.

 

[thehog]

Walsh didn't single out one nation. Again I repeat he said he had "multiple conversations" with people at Sky and said Irish corner and Dutch corner was the worst. Yes, there was French(I'm sure they were at it) at the Irish one but Porte said the abuse he got was not by them. This was after Walsh's apology where he said he had chats with Irish who were there and got many emails who said it was the French who did it. It's obvious Walsh put what the Irish said about the French when he asked Porte about this at San Sebastian. Notice Walsh never tweeted that Porte said they weren't Irish. Remember Walsh apologised for generalising the Irish corner. That still doesn't mean there wasn't a minority of them giving stick to Porte. Plus in the video earlier, the corner is further back down the road where the majority of the Irish were. A small number of fans in isolation is not the corner as a whole or many fans as a group who dominated it. That can be spun easily. Similiar if a group of fans in a football stand were giving vitriol abuse to a player, a simple video in another area of that same said stand might show nothing like that.

Regarding the bolded in your post:

Kinda crazy isn't it?

Walsh didn't print a retraction. His apology wasn't even really an apology.

Like I said there want much in it. Walsh did attempt to drum it up into something more than it was.

Oversized comedy props of doctors & syringes have been a part of cycling since cyclists decided to become junkies. Contador to Armstrong to Ullrich have all experienced it.

Maybe next time Contador can get Marca to write how nasty the British fans were? Or when he was booed at the team presentation track down who booed him and what nation they were from?

You see Walsh is not helping. And neither is Sky. Jokes aside what Froome did at the Tour was crazy scary strange. If there was better explanation on why Froome and Porte are so strong it may help them. They do dodge a lot of questions in regards to their power and weights.

Froome didn't help himself either at the Criterium International by acting aggressively to a French rider before attacking him. It didn't look good.

There are two sides to every story and Sky don't help themselves to endearing the support of the fans outside their home country. Froome deriding French riders in full view of the TV cameras is not going to win him French support.

It would be like Messi abusing Gerrard at Anfield. It won't win him any support in the return match. Froome did just that on French soil.

Silly.

 

[martinvickers]

God, there's a lot of angels on the head of pins here.

This was the first year of 'Irish Corner', modelled in a small but fun way after Dutch Corner. It was, by pretty much all accounts, for a first effort, a fantastic success, and is likely to be repeated- both Dan and Nico commented on how much it meant to them.

The 'pioneers' of Irish Corner were, broadly, less 'boisterous' - for which read 'less drunk' - than some of the Dutch Corner, hard as that is on our national pride in having a social beverage - IT was pretty clear that parts of the Alpe were getting out of hand.

It's also absolutely clear that a group of french-speaking 'protesters' made a bee-line for sky at that corner, and a few other places. The protest, such as it was is fine, that's free speech. Trying to inject something in the mouth, as was done later, is not.

At that corner, a few, a small few, but a few made their less than amorous feelings fror Sky known. They were not responsible for the syringe nonsense.

So all in all, likeliest 'Occam' explanation - well behaved, fun day out, couple of irish more raucous than others but nowt too serious, and a few 'natives' some of whom seemed to take things too far. And Porte seems to have linked - in my view wrongly - a couple of perfectly acceptable irish-accented comments around that corner with the bigger picture of a broadly french protest, parts of which got out of control. and Walsh reported what he was told happened, as reporters are apt to do,even when the reporting turns out to be mistaken because the witness is mistaken.


Far too many here are trying to make the facts fit their theory, rather than the thery fit the facts.

 

[thehog]

God, there's a lot of angels on the head of pins here.

This was the first year of 'Irish Corner', modelled in a small but fun way after Dutch Corner. It was, by pretty much all accounts, for a first effort, a fantastic success, and is likely to be repeated- both Dan and Nico commented on how much it meant to them.

The 'pioneers' of Irish Corner were, broadly, less 'boisterous' - for which read 'less drunk' - than some of the Dutch Corner, hard as that is on our national pride in having a social beverage - IT was pretty clear that parts of the Alpe were getting out of hand.

It's also absolutely clear that a group of french-speaking 'protesters' made a bee-line for sky at that corner, and a few other places. The protest, such as it was is fine, that's free speech. Trying to inject something in the mouth, as was done later, is not.

At that corner, a few, a small few, but a few made their less than amorous feelings fror Sky known. They were not responsible for the syringe nonsense.

So all in all, likeliest 'Occam' explanation - well behaved, fun day out, couple of irish more raucous than others but nowt too serious, and a few 'natives' some of whom seemed to take things too far. And Porte seems to have linked - in my view wrongly - a couple of perfectly acceptable irish-accented comments around that corner with the bigger picture of a broadly french protest, parts of which got out of control. and Walsh reported what he was told happened, as reporters are apt to do,even when the reporting turns out to be mistaken because the witness is mistaken.


Far too many here are trying to make the facts fit their theory, rather than the thery fit the facts.

Excellent post.

Kinda funny a cycling team from the county which founded hooligans in sport calling out the Irish!

I think Walsh overplayed what is par for the course every year on the alpe.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

and Walsh reported what he was told happened, as reporters are apt to do,even when the reporting turns out to be mistaken because the witness is mistaken.

Quadriple checking info could have helped turning reporting into journalism. Lets just hope the info in Walsh's new book is checked a little better.

 

[Benotti69]

Alan Farrell was in the car - so he was there.

so what, he is a Sky employee and his viewpoint biased.

As was Froome...

Froome wasn't in the car.

who in your unattributed piece said Chris was "relieved" that it turns out not to have been the Irish fans. Which of course, Walsh did not single out in the first instance as you stated.

Yes he did in his tweets as DavidWalshST. Walsh is tweeting as a 'journo' so it is part of his work.

 

[sniper]

so what, he is a Sky employee and his viewpoint biased.

that's the best part.
walsh allegedly 'covered' this and 'addressed' that, when all he did was 'query' and 'quizz' biased sky employees and settle for whatever answer he was given.
with all due respect, some posters wouldn't recognize a sell-out if it danced naked in front of them.

 

[Parker]

He was a fairly run of the mill soports reporter in the UK.

.

He won the SJA Sportwriter of the Year Award in 2000 and Feature Writer of the Year in 2001. He certainly wasn't 'run of the mill' at that time.

 

[bianchigirl]

Cant blame fans for being angry at what they were seeing and walsh's series of adulatory tweets didn't help - he evinced precious little journalistic objectivity in the way he covered the tour. The JTL story really didn't put the necessary distance between himself and sky that he should have shown all along.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

so what, he is a Sky employee and his viewpoint biased.


Froome wasn't in the car.

Am, both were 'on the mountain' as from Hogs post from an unattributed piece from someone called O'Sheas- so, nothing to do with the car.

In what way would Farrell being a 'Sky employee' mean he is biased?

Yes he did in his tweets as DavidWalshST. Walsh is tweeting as a 'journo' so it is part of his work.

Then you may, as I have done, find the tweets that back up that he singled out the Irish.

 

[sniper]

...
In what way would Farrell being a 'Sky employee' mean he is biased?...