It's becoming a sport for spoiled brats

[Love the Scenery]

If Sammy was in yellow when he crashed, and the person in second place ATTACKED when Sammy was down - that would be ok?

Gee, I don't know. Let's try to make a list of all the situations in which attacks are or are not allowed by the unwritten rules of gentlemanliness.

Imagine a tour with time bonuses. After a prologue, Wiggins in yellow, Hushovd in second, basically on same time. They sprint, Wiggins is caught in a crash in the last bend. What does Hushovd do?
(a) Stop the peloton and wait for Wiggins.
(b) Tell the race organizer the stage was too dangerous, should be neutralized, and everyone will ride arm in arm across the finish line.
(c) Ride like the wind and take yellow.

I mean, really, who deserves to be waited for and who doesn't? Are you saying the best riders deserve special treatment? The strongest riders in cycling need to be mollycoddled and waited for and attended on? And everyone else? Sc*%#ed. Give me a break.

If there is a horrible, horrible crash and people are concerned for someone's life and wellbeing, then maybe they wait, out of sheer concern and worry. But if your rival plays the fool, overdoes a turn, and tumbles, you're supposed to get off your bike, walk back to him, and give him a hand up?

Like Sastre says, that's kid's stuff. This is the Tour de France. You want to watch choreographed sports entertainment, that's what wrestling's for.

 

[Escarabajo]

Gee, I don't know. Let's try to make a list of all the situations in which attacks are or are not allowed by the unwritten rules of gentlemanliness.

Imagine a tour with time bonuses. After a prologue, Wiggins in yellow, Hushovd in second, basically on same time. They sprint, Wiggins is caught in a crash in the last bend. What does Hushovd do?
(a) Stop the peloton and wait for Wiggins.
(b) Tell the race organizer the stage was too dangerous, should be neutralized, and everyone will ride arm in arm across the finish line.
(c) Ride like the wind and take yellow.

I mean, really, who deserves to be waited for and who doesn't? Are you saying the best riders deserve special treatment? The strongest riders in cycling need to be mollycoddled and waited for and attended on? And everyone else? Sc*%#ed. Give me a break.

If there is a horrible, horrible crash and people are concerned for someone's life and wellbeing, then maybe they wait, out of sheer concern and worry. But if your rival plays the fool, overdoes a turn, and tumbles, you're supposed to get off your bike, walk back to him, and give him a hand up?

Like Sastre says, that's kid's stuff. This is the Tour de France. You want to watch choreographed sports entertainment, that's what wrestling's for.

+11111111111.

The part that makes mad is about the waiting on the Pre-Race main contenders only. The only problem I have with that is that in most of the races there is a "Dark Horse" that could be affected by these so called rules of the peloton. For example Menchov was a pre-race contender but in no way he would have been treated like Andy was.

 

[icefire]

Sastre's words in English (from his web page)

http://www.carlossastre.com/sastre_en/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1086&Itemid=1

 

[Hmmmmm]

Gee, I don't know. Let's try to make a list of all the situations in which attacks are or are not allowed by the unwritten rules of gentlemanliness.

Imagine a tour with time bonuses. After a prologue, Wiggins in yellow, Hushovd in second, basically on same time. They sprint, Wiggins is caught in a crash in the last bend. What does Hushovd do?
(a) Stop the peloton and wait for Wiggins.
(b) Tell the race organizer the stage was too dangerous, should be neutralized, and everyone will ride arm in arm across the finish line.
(c) Ride like the wind and take yellow.

I mean, really, who deserves to be waited for and who doesn't? Are you saying the best riders deserve special treatment? The strongest riders in cycling need to be mollycoddled and waited for and attended on? And everyone else? Sc*%#ed. Give me a break.

If there is a horrible, horrible crash and people are concerned for someone's life and wellbeing, then maybe they wait, out of sheer concern and worry. But if your rival plays the fool, overdoes a turn, and tumbles, you're supposed to get off your bike, walk back to him, and give him a hand up?

Like Sastre says, that's kid's stuff. This is the Tour de France. You want to watch choreographed sports entertainment, that's what wrestling's for.

+100

I hear talk of cycling not being a gentleman's sport anymore and gamesmanship and sportsmanship being thrown around like this is a Wednesday night ladies card game. Kudos to those who speak up in regards to this being a sport and the many different things that can happen to affect the outcome. Stopping to wait for riders to add "excitement" or "drama" is not the solution when sh!t happens. What if Contador, Schleck, Evans, Menchov, Sastre, etc (all the possible main contenders) were involved in mechanicals and crashes that would put them 5 or 10 minutes down. Is the rest of the peleton supposed to just halt and wait to let the big boys have their chance because what happened to them is not "fair"? Come on!

 

[Signor Corleone]

Signor Corleone

Everybody keeps saying that Schleck had a ( mechanical ), To me it seemed
more like a fluffed gear change, so why wait?
Sastre was right. As a matter of fact who waited for Chavanel, when he had
the Maillot Jaune on stage3,Andy? Not likely! He was up the road, hanging on
to Cancellara.

 

[Carols]

Waiting

I think it's Ridiculous! It's a bloody bike race not a tea party, take the good and the bad and ride your bike.

The new rule should be called 'waiting for Andy', 4 minutes on stage 2, then he turns around and hammers when AC has a mechanical on stage 3, then whines when he Attacks! drops his chain and the others go on.....

Oh poor, poor Andy....Meanwhile now everyone is starting to wait for everyone. Because the new Andy Rule is now in effect.

Ridiculous!! Ride like men and stop being sissys!!

 

[Suitcase_of_courage]

I think it's Ridiculous! It's a bloody bike race not a tea party, take the good and the bad and ride your bike.

The new rule should be called 'waiting for Andy', 4 minutes on stage 2, then he turns around and hammers when AC has a mechanical on stage 3, then whines when he Attacks! drops his chain and the others go on.....

Oh poor, poor Andy....Meanwhile now everyone is starting to wait for everyone. Because the new Andy Rule is now in effect.

Ridiculous!! Ride like men and stop being sissys!!

Couldnt agree more!! The tour de france is supposed to be the toughest most brutal event there is in pro cycling, its what attracts new people to the sport as it showcases athletes at the very peak of fitness going all out. I think those who are up in arms about the whole "chaingate" issue only started watching because of Armstrong, ITV showed a clip the other day of Stephen Roche winning the tour because the leader at the time dropped his chain!! They talk about tradition but no beef was made there about it!! I think the main contabashers are just miffed he keeps winning, i'm a big fan of bertie cos he attacks and is generally an exciting rider to watch. Lot of people going on about him being not as good as last year, cant expect him to dominate in such a way as last year forever!! No doubt the pro lance brigade will be on his case for some time to come

 

[hrotha]

lol Sastre

That's how controversial I am, I probably can't help it. At the start [of the stage] I wanted to congratulate the winner, but I don't know how you're supposed to congratulate that kind of winner.

 

[Carols]

Couldnt agree more!! The tour de france is supposed to be the toughest most brutal event there is in pro cycling, its what attracts new people to the sport as it showcases athletes at the very peak of fitness going all out. I think those who are up in arms about the whole "chaingate" issue only started watching because of Armstrong, ITV showed a clip the other day of Stephen Roche winning the tour because the leader at the time dropped his chain!! They talk about tradition but no beef was made there about it!! I think the main contabashers are just miffed he keeps winning, i'm a big fan of bertie cos he attacks and is generally an exciting rider to watch. Lot of people going on about him being not as good as last year, cant expect him to dominate in such a way as last year forever!! No doubt the pro lance brigade will be on his case for some time to come

I don't particularly care who wins any edition of the Tour, I just believe they should suck it up and ride like men instead of this 'let's wait for so and so' new way of doing things. Yikes it makes me angry! I want to see a Bike Race .

 

[HokieJoe]

Yes, I agree, Carlos was right to go for it. I just don't like the (nobody ever waited for me in my career) tone.

BTW, anybody find any footage of Sanchez's crash? I've only seen the aftermath at it was certainly ugly. What a great ride by Sanchez yesterday.
Hoping he keeps podium...

I don't think that's the intended tone. He doesn't lament no one waiting for him. He just thinks it is a bad idea- irrespective of the rider. I tend to agree with him.

 

[elepCR]

If Sammy was in yellow when he crashed, and the person in second place ATTACKED when Sammy was down - that would be ok?

My opinion is that it would not be ok. I would call it ruthless and unsportsmanlike. Race is not on, it's beginning of the stage, cynical exploitation of the situation. Not waiting, but riding the same tempo without slowdown is still ok for me. Ordering all teammates to the front to dramatically increase the speed of the peleton not nice at all.

But when Sastre was about to pull away, his teammate was already dropping from the leading group to wait for him. Sastre was no threat to Sanchez or GC and it was very early into the race. Even if he posed some threat to other teams they would have enough time to pull him back. I think he just wanted to win the stage as it was his only chance, last mountains. He had two options, either to wait several minutes for Sanchez together with the peloton, show great sportsmanship that would have no effect on Sanchez, and at the same time say goodbye to the stage win as he would have lost several minutes to the break waiting for the poor Sanchez. Or go for it right at the moment when he learnt of Astana's decision to wait.

Regarding Schleck's bad shifting, the race was on not far from the summit, if they had waited the race would probably have been neutralized, 20 riders coming together, all gained time and effort for nothing. Other arguments in favor of Contador's attack have already been written many times and I agree with most of them, including different treatment of human error versus pure bad luck. It was lot of fun for me to read all the arguments in the other thread.

Even though I am in favor of tough racing and no gifts there should by some limits. In other circumstances, if simillar situation happened at the bottom of a climb and there was no hard racing, I would definitely prefer waiting even in case of human error or lack of concentration. At the same time I would not blame anyone if it was undisputably human error, it would just look strange to me. It now seems only just that Contador clawed back some of the lost time to Schleck on the cobbles even though no waiting on the cobbles was completely OK for me too.Taking away all accidents Contador would enjoy even bigger lead than he does now.

 

[lagartija]

If Sammy was in yellow when he crashed, and the person in second place ATTACKED when Sammy was down - that would be ok?

There are very few instances of a second place rider ATTACKING a Yellow Jersey while the Yellow crashed, took a pee or feed, or had a mechanical.

Can anyone name another time that happened besides this year?
I'm sure it has, just cannot recall....

PS, Yellow Jersey wearer Jaan Kirsipuu made it across the Passage du Gois and held on to his Yellow back in 1999...

by the way not sure if it was covered.....................

but....non of your examples happened this year either........

 

[movingtarget]

Luck is part of sport. There are so many elements involved. What about riders having to wait at level crossings in the Paris Roubaix, waiting for trains to pass ? If they don't wait they get disqualified.