Itzulia Basque Country 2022 April 4-9

[tobydawq]

I was more responding to houtdffan's bewailing that "not every race needs to favour the climbers" and that there should be some races that the best TTer can win, which, while on the surface nothing to disagree with notwithstanding that in the early 2010s there were a bunch of "win the TT win the race" events which were equally dull as the Tour de Langkawi-style "win the MTF win the race" ones are now, nevertheless seems like an odd comment to make specifically regarding the race on the World Tour calendar which takes place in a region which is almost entirely mountainous and whose identity is most closely tied to climbing, and always has been.

Do you know the . ? It's sometimes useful while writing

I hear there is a thread about it somewhere, if you want to learn more, where it is discussed at length.

I agree with your point by the way.

 

[RedheadDane]

Do you know the . ? It's sometimes useful while writing

I hear there is a thread about it somewhere, if you want to learn more, where it is discussed at length.

Actually, I think the ".", and its usage, might be one of the very few things we have not (yet) discussed in the "." thread.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Yesterday‘s TT surprised me somehow. Primoz, who is the strongest TTist in the peloton on hilly courses, but has the worst bike handling skills, won on this technical course…

Today hopefully will offer a nice second stage. I hope for attacks from QS (Remco, Ala) on the first of the bigger mountains.

Jumbo possibly won‘t be too strong here, except for Rog, Vinge, Kuss.

Of course I hope for a Primoz win in the final GC, but I hope for a great race, with many teams attacking JV.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

I'm really hoping Ineos let Omar Fraile try for the stage 2 win. It suits him perfectly for either a late attack or a group sprint (the sprinter ranks at this race are very very weak). Surely their GC guys can manage without him in the last 10km.

No chance, there are only 2 riders in this race so he is not allowed to be in the equation. Be interesting in the race for 3rd downwards.

 

[SafeBet]

Yesterday‘s TT surprised me somehow. Primoz, who is the strongest TTist in the peloton on hilly courses, but has the worst bike handling skills, won on this technical course…

He's not Van der Poel but he's far from the worst bike handler in the peloton.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Yeah, I feel like Roglics descending and bike handling skills first got overrated after his descent attack in the Tour a couple of years ago and has now become underrated because of his crashes. He's no Nibali but he's also not descending like Ullrich in the 90s.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

... descending like Ullrich in the 90s.

Got any videos of that?

 

[Red Rick]

Hes very good on the TT bike

 

[bajbar]

He's not Van der Poel but he's far from the worst bike handler in the peloton.

Bike handling is not the problem with Roglič. The biggest issue is his positioning in the peloton. He does not have the natural feeling of moving in a group of cyclists, so he has to spend a lot more energy to be in a good place. And if he goes into "auto" mode to save energy he suddenly finds himself either half-way down the pack or in a ditch.

 

[tobydawq]

Yesterday‘s TT surprised me somehow. Primoz, who is the strongest TTist in the peloton on hilly courses, but has the worst bike handling skills, won on this technical course…

Today hopefully will offer a nice second stage. I hope for attacks from QS (Remco, Ala) on the first of the bigger mountains.

Jumbo possibly won‘t be too strong here, except for Rog, Vinge, Kuss.

Of course I hope for a Primoz win in the final GC, but I hope for a great race, with many teams attacking JV.

Primoz doesn't have bad bike handling skills! Just look at that descent. He also won a Tour stage in 2018 because he schooled the others on a descent. It's such a weird myth.

 

[jonan92]

The forecast is for rain on Friday's stage, the only one with possible bad weather so far

 

[Netserk]

Do you know the . ? It's sometimes useful while writing

I hear there is a thread about it somewhere, if you want to learn more, where it is discussed at length.

I agree with your point by the way.

Ideally, all posts should only have one sentence, so make it run - on and on!

 

[Anderis]

That seems like a very Basque breakaway.

 

[Netserk]

Official live tracker: https://racecenter.itzulia.eus/en/

 

[CyclistAbi]

OK then finally the "poor bike handling skills are a myth" is recognized. Now lets move to positioning in the peloton. Does Rogla really have such problems with positioning? What i feel is some of you don't take tactics into an account. That is on some races Rogla intentionally stays behind to preserve energy. Then on some races his team doesn't do a good job to position him in the peloton. Both of this in my opinion can't be contributed to his bad positioning skills. On this very race last year. Wasn't a great positioning that made the decisive difference? Or this year racing on cobbles. On where he joined Ineos. Or on an average steep climb, just behind Sepp Kuss. Or in difficulty just behind van Aert.

IMHO when he needs to be he is rather good in positioning.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Evenepoel will simply start outsprinting him for boniseconds. Piece of cake.

I don't know. Two scenarios would work for me. One being for Remco to beat Rogla in Remco style if he is up to it. Or if he isn't maybe as Remco was sweet-talking for Rogla to take him under his wing and to show him a trick or two when climbing.

We'll see.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

OK then finally the "poor bike handling skills are a myth" is recognized. Now lets move to positioning in the peloton. Does Rogla really have such problems with positioning? What i feel is some of you don't take tactics into an account. That is on some races Rogla intentionally stays behind to preserve energy. Then on some races his team doesn't do a good job to position him in the peloton. Both of this in my opinion can't be contributed to his bad positioning skills. On this very race last year. Wasn't a great positioning that made the decisive difference? Or this year racing on cobbles. On where he joined Ineos. Or on an average steep climb, just behind Sepp Kuss. Or in difficulty just behind van Aert.

IMHO when he needs to be he is rather good in positioning.

It's not because you are a bad descender that you crash every 500 meters or lose minutes on every descent. It's not because you are bad at positioning that you get caught out every race. So a 3km descent is hardly proof of anything, especially on a TT bike which is a discipline on its own. This goes for both Roglic as Evenepoel imho.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Got any videos of that?

Not really, the majority of highlight videos have cut the descents short. Him overshooting that corner in 2001 is obviously the famous moment but in 96-98 you could see that he often took a bad line through corners. Not Dani Martinez bad but worse than Virenque, Pantani etc. Never turned out to be a big issue tho because him being heavier than the climbers helped on straights and he had the engine to close the gaps.
E: Just searched for a video:

From 1:07:30 on you can see how he loses Virenques wheel through every corner. Sidenote: Virenques bitching on getting no help is quite funny

Back to Roglic, his main issue is sometimes questionable risk assessment (that Vuelta attack where he crashed wtf?) and he's a bit of an adrenaline junkie I think but bike handling isn't an issue.

 

[saganftw]

Got any videos of that?

zapruder film of ulrich downhill skills

 

[Pirazziattacks]

Primoz doesn't have bad bike handling skills! Just look at that descent. He also won a Tour stage in 2018 because he schooled the others on a descent. It's such a weird myth.

His only problem with descending is that he possibly feels too comfortable going downhill at high speed and gets a bit overconfident at times.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Not really, the majority of highlight videos have cut the descents short. Him overshooting that corner in 2001 is obviously the famous moment but in 96-98 you could see that he often took a bad line through corners. Not Dani Martinez bad but worse than Virenque, Pantani etc. Never turned out to be a big issue tho because him being heavier than the climbers helped on straights and he had the engine to close the gaps.
E: Just searched for a video:

From 1:07:30 on you can see how he loses Virenques wheel through every corner. Sidenote: Virenques bitching on getting no help is quite funny

Back to Roglic, his main issue is sometimes questionable risk assessment (that Vuelta attack where he crashed wtf?) and he's a bit of an adrenaline junkie I think but bike handling isn't an issue.

2001 he was just hoping Armstrong would follow him.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

zapruder film of ulrich downhill skills

The guys in this video are crazy… That‘s one of the craziest things I‘ve ever seen. Also really dangerous. That‘s so insane, you could break your neck…

I admire these guys, but it‘s insane…

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

2001 he was just hoping Armstrong would follow him.

The ultimate trap. Remco had the same plan in Tirreno by misleading Pogacar and Vingegaard but hadn't really thought through what to do after he succeeded.

 

[Eclipse]

Now this is an interesting little twist

and then no follow through haha

 

[Lequack]

So the peloton doesn't want the stage win?