Jan Ullrich

[Nearly]

...The "golden age" in terms of the local crits you remember so fondly were destroyed by the antics of Jan and his mates.

But hey at least he was more responsible for creating the 'golden age' that he was for its demise. Los Kaiser los!

 

[Race Radio]

Stop a moment...and think about what you have just posted. Why are they gone? Perhaps it is because the sponsors and the public just got fed up with all the "naughty stuff"...and by the way...thanks. In your attempt to discredit me with your putdown you have actually reinforced my comments. The "golden age" in terms of the local crits you remember so fondly were destroyed by the antics of Jan and his mates.

The media did more to kill the sport in Germany then any clinic in Frieburg.

There is far more evidence that Armstrong doped but the American media has ignored it. In Germany they chose to crucify the sport.

If you want to continue this direction with this topic I suggest you open a thread in the clinic.

 

[ergmonkey]

Bagster,

You're right that it makes no sense to rag on Armstrong for doping but ignore Ullrich's own obvious drug use. And yes, Lance won more races. As an elite athlete myself, I admire the way he prepared for and then performed in his main events. But, aside from a few over-zealous posters, I don't think that the issue of doping suspicions (regarding Ullrich or Armstrong) had anything to do with what made most Ullrich fans root for him. What turned me off of Lance was not the evidence that he doped to win totally doped-up Tours; instead, it was the ridiculous Nike ad ("what am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day...") where it became obvious that part of the Lance marketing in the US was now centered around putting the rest of the (doped) sport down and implying that Lance was above it all. In contrast, Jan was more restrained. You're welcome to see his relative silence and curt denials in the face of doping charges as obstruction of justice; but given the realities of pro cycling during his career, I think that would be a bit much.
Lastly, not to get too picky (and sorry to invade Clinic territory) but please stop referring to Jan as a "convicted" doper, unless you are intending to write about 2002 when Jan got busted for ecstasy in a post-surgery, out-of-competition test. Beyond that, Jan still gets to use the "never tested positive line" for all of the Puerto stuff--none of which resulted in a "conviction". Basically, Jan served a six-month ban for partying like Tom Boonen, and if I ever host a celebrity dinner party they're going to be my first two invitees.

 

[9000ft]

Who wouldn't expect this or any other thread turn focus on LA? The pathological LA haters can't help themselves, they simply have to try to turn every thread into an anti LA diatribe.

What I find most interesting about any LA Ullrich comparison is how much it seems - at least on the surface via what's available in the press - Ullrich has been able to enjoy his life post cycling. He doesn't seem to miss/need thrive on the competition and intensity of elite level cycling like LA. Personally, I'd rather be more like Der Kaiser and maybe have less impressive results and be a bit easier going than driven and hyper competitive like LA (and a lot of other professional, elite level athletes).

Of course, having never met either of them I could be completely wrong. Making assumptions about anyone's personality traits based on media is a bit presumptuous at best.

 

[nvpacchi]

To stay on topic is anyone an owner (or at least ridden) a Jan Ullrich brand bike? I checked out the website and I must say, I am impressed.

 

[Neworld]

Bagster,

Newsflash, all top 20-50 cyclists, especially GT riders, in the last 20yrs were dopers...yes LA and JU. I am not that biased to think Jan was clean, albeit never caught as you insinuate. Doing E at a party, drinking beer, smiling and wearing lederhosen makes me like him even more. Hell, Boonen has been busted how many times while training and racing and he's still riding.

This is a Jan Ullrich thread...you read the title right? This is not about comparing JU to anyone. I am guessing but it may be intended to tease out notions from the readership about Jan the competitor, the person, his personal attributes, best racing moments... Maybe even open up some video links of racing moments or DVDs that have been lost to time. Pick one of those and it just may be the intention of the thread. If you want to compare Jan to someone or anyone open up another thread and maybe someone will debate with you.

For me Jan was a mature champion with quiet confidence. His greatest challenge was himself and not the competitors he lined up against. Isn't that what we all love about cycling is the personal effort, the fight within ourselves, never giving up no matter what the odds? He was laden with talent and I would love to hear from other readers about his VO2Max.

Jan didn't need to denigrate someone, or play mind games in the media to become one of the best. And, if he carried a few extra pounds (arguably incorrect most of the time, more likely propaganda from JB) then what he accomplished 'overweight' is outstanding.

He was able to race quite often after the TdF, riding the worlds ITT, RR and the Olympics. I wish he would have raced more in the early spring classics actually where his power and breakaway speed may have allowed him to win like Fabian C.

Jan was also a comic. I remember a youtube video of him pretending to bench press some heavy weight while pretending to say to Lance 'watch out'...as the camera panned away you could see there were no weights at all.

Some believe that you can be judged by the friends you behold and what they say about you. I think its clear his fans, teammates and opposing racers thought he was/is a formidably positive individual. I wish Jan the best of retirement, an amazing competitor who captured the hearts of millions with his relentless efforts and easy, likable, persona.

If anyone has old footage of his Vuelta '99 win I'd love to know where you found it.
NW

 

[Bagster]

The media did more to kill the sport in Germany then any clinic in Frieburg.

There is far more evidence that Armstrong doped but the American media has ignored it. In Germany they chose to crucify the sport.

If you want to continue this direction with this topic I suggest you open a thread in the clinic.

I am only responding with the reason why German cycling went into free fall. Hard to do that without giving the actual reason. Sorry if you cant cope with reality

 

[Bagster]

Bagster,

Newsflash, all top 20-50 cyclists, especially GT riders, in the last 20yrs were dopers...yes LA and JU. I am not that biased to think Jan was clean, albeit never caught as you insinuate. Doing E at a party, drinking beer, smiling and wearing lederhosen makes me like him even more. Hell, Boonen has been busted how many times while training and racing and he's still riding.

This is a Jan Ullrich thread...you read the title right? This is not about comparing JU to anyone. I am guessing but it may be intended to tease out notions from the readership about Jan the competitor, the person, his personal attributes, best racing moments... Maybe even open up some video links of racing moments or DVDs that have been lost to time. Pick one of those and it just may be the intention of the thread. If you want to compare Jan to someone or anyone open up another thread and maybe someone will debate with you.

For me Jan was a mature champion with quiet confidence. His greatest challenge was himself and not the competitors he lined up against. Isn't that what we all love about cycling is the personal effort, the fight within ourselves, never giving up no matter what the odds? He was laden with talent and I would love to hear from other readers about his VO2Max.

Jan didn't need to denigrate someone, or play mind games in the media to become one of the best. And, if he carried a few extra pounds (arguably incorrect most of the time, more likely propaganda from JB) then what he accomplished 'overweight' is outstanding.

He was able to race quite often after the TdF, riding the worlds ITT, RR and the Olympics. I wish he would have raced more in the early spring classics actually where his power and breakaway speed may have allowed him to win like Fabian C.

Jan was also a comic. I remember a youtube video of him pretending to bench press some heavy weight while pretending to say to Lance 'watch out'...as the camera panned away you could see there were no weights at all.

Some believe that you can be judged by the friends you behold and what they say about you. I think its clear his fans, teammates and opposing racers thought he was/is a formidably positive individual. I wish Jan the best of retirement, an amazing competitor who captured the hearts of millions with his relentless efforts and easy, likable, persona.

If anyone has old footage of his Vuelta '99 win I'd love to know where you found it.
NW

I actually don't disagree with much of what you say in this post. My first post never even mentioned LA, I was merely expressing my amusement that apparently you can be a cheat but still be a good guy and therefore put on a pedestal. If you do that all will be forgiven, because you are 'one of the boys'. Joe Papp: 'Ule was the only one I stopped and asked for a photo with'. well thats great and he probably is a nice guy. But he is still a liar and a cheat and the fact that others at the time were also liars and cheats doesn't change that.

Also I admit I couldn't resist taking the pee out of the same people who post all their anti LA crap on the LA thread. They can dish it but don't take it too well.

Finally, don't respond with another LA rant becuse this post is not about him...keep it on topic

 

[Race Radio]

I am only responding with the reason why German cycling went into free fall. Hard to do that without giving the actual reason. Sorry if you cant cope with reality

Your ignorance is impressive.

There have been massive doping scandals in France, Spain, Belgium, Italy, America etc. and the sport survived, even flourished afterward. The difference is in Germany the press crucified the sport.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I guess I've gotta lock this thread until it get's sorted out because some of you can't play by the rules, even after multiple warnings. Unreal!!~!

 

[Bala Verde]

Last try. Keep it nice and the same rules apply. If you want to talk doping exclusively, check yourself in at the clinic; If you want to talk LA, you can join the lot in the LA thread.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Last try. Keep it nice and the same rules apply. If you want to talk doping exclusively, check yourself in at the clinic; If you want to talk LA, you can join the lot in the LA thread.

Consistency with punishment is key!

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Last try. Keep it nice and the same rules apply. If you want to talk doping exclusively, check yourself in at the clinic; If you want to talk LA, you can join the lot in the LA thread.

Thanks to "RDV4ROUBAIX". I told him that since the Thread-Hacker "Bagster" is banned it should go as well as it was before. Basically he spoiled the thread alone, because he made us all annoyed and we had to fight back. I hope this time the Mod´s interfere earlier if a guy like this comes up.

Anyway it´s nice you re-opened the Thread.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhiWsZJW8lQ great vid, poor quality mostly TdF 2003

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhiWsZJW8lQ great vid, poor quality mostly TdF 2003

Bad, it´s not allowed in germany because of copyrights or gema. We turn into a 3rd world country (throwing billions to greedy speculators surely helps too).

Germany has a history for self destruction. Ulle was also a victim of this approach.

 

[asnicol]

I'm really pleased that this thread has been opened as i was dying to post!! I can remember as a school kid running home to catch the final 30 mins of the day's stage during the 1996 tour, watching Ullrich supporting Riis, and then in 1997 winning it. For me its the nostalgia of watching Ullrich as a teenager and falling in love with cycling. Whilst feeling that he always had another tour win inside him, it was not to be. However thanks to you tube I can re-live the memories of the 1997 tour, cheers Ulle

 

[SpartacusRox]

Consistency with punishment is key!

Consistency beteween threads or just in this thread, because there doesn't apear to be much consistency in the LA thread where people seem to be able to post whatever with no 'punishment' as you term it.

However i digress. Back to Jan, one of the most gutting moments for me in years of watching cycling was him crashing in the TT in the year he rode for Bianchi. Cruel to see his challenge end that way after he had done the hard yards...yeah I know 'thats cycling' but still felt bad for him. Apart from possibly beating LA that year I bet he would have loved being able to give a metaphorical finger to Telecom (or was it T-Mobile at that stage). It was also the year that I think he was in his best shape.

 

[Christian]

However i digress. Back to Jan, one of the most gutting moments for me in years of watching cycling was him crashing in the TT in the year he rode for Bianchi. Cruel to see his challenge end that way after he had done the hard yards...yeah I know 'thats cycling' but still felt bad for him. Apart from possibly beating LA that year I bet he would have loved being able to give a metaphorical finger to Telecom (or was it T-Mobile at that stage). It was also the year that I think he was in his best shape.

That crash is part of what makes Jan Jan. He had to crash that day, there was no way around it. He'll always be a tragic hero!

 

[Neworld]

Does anyone have a copy of, or know where to get, some old Ullrich videos

Like the Vuelta he won, or some of the ITT worlds he was in?

NW

 

[El Imbatido]

Does anyone have a copy of, or know where to get, some old Ullrich videos

Like the Vuelta he won, or some of the ITT worlds he was in?

NW

http://www.cyclingtorrents.nl/details.php?id=1669

http://www.cyclingtorrents.nl/details.php?id=6

+ all of the Tours where Jan came second. The website is http://www.cyclingtorrents.nl

 

[HL2037]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhiWsZJW8lQ great vid, poor quality mostly TdF 2003

Quoted for awesomeness. All hail the king! The king of kings! There is only one!

 

[SirLes]

My Ullrich story:

I saw the final stage of the 2004 TdF and quite by chance found the hotel where almost all the riders went after it finished.

I saw Ullrich (who was surrounded by fans) amongst others but thought I'd missed my chance for a photo after he got into a mini van. I knocked on the door and asked if I could take a photo. He moved down the bus to oblige and I got a great photo.

It was afterwards that I remembered I was wearing a US Postal top.

Really nice of him to go out of his way to have his photo taken when he must have been A) knackered, B) ****ed off with his worst TdF performance C) Clearly I was a tw*t who wasn't even a fan of his.

Interestingly I also got photos of Tyler Hamilton (who did the parade lap despite abandoning that year), Ivan Basso and Oscar Sevilla.

A prize if you can think of a connection between those four riders!!!

 

[hmronnow]

Interestingly I also got photos of Tyler Hamilton (who did the parade lap despite abandoning that year), Ivan Basso and Oscar Sevilla.

A prize if you can think of a connection between those four riders!!!

Well, one obvious connection is that you have photos of all 4

 

[Neworld]

Common to all 4? What about B. Riis? Not sure about Sevilla. Ok, OP.
NW

 

[Neworld]

One of many fond moments of Jan ullrich, and towards the end of his career, was during stg 15, 2004 TdF.

A 180.5 km stage was the first in the Alps, and it was all up or down. There were seven categorised climbs, including four in the final 50 km with the additional cat-2 rise to the finish. The biggest climbs were the 10.7 km of the cat-2 Col des Limouches, the 12 km climb of the cat-1 Col de l'Echarasson and the 10.3 km up the cat-2 Col de Chalimont. There was an early break with 9 riders that led over the first two climbs, and after the peloton there were only 60+ riders a minute behind. After the breakaway was caught another sprang away. On the long climb up the Col de l'Echarasson, while the leaders were slowly caught, Ullrich attempted his own break, leading Armstrong by 40" as he went over the summit. He pulled further away over the Col de Carri but as Jens Voigt dropped back from his break-away group to assist Ivan Basso in defending his 2nd overall spot against Ullrich's attack, the chase group quickly caught Ullrich before the sixth climb. Rasmussen and Virenque were only 50" ahead.

Ullrich was eventually caught, but he never gave up trying. What would have happened if Jens wasn't there, he was a mule that day, just doing his job, but...Didn't Landis work like a dog that day too, or am I thinking of a different stage?

Anyway just one moment. NW