Jayco al-'Ula and its GreenEdge predecessors

[greenedge]

I still think Gerrans can go well. He probably has not been given much opportunity at each race with Sky. Then at French teams they go for any individual. He has still won stages at each GT which is an accomplishment. He's a strong rider who can challenge for wins. He can also mentor the next generation for 5 years and be road captain after O' Grady retires.

I agree LS that Cadel should have been the leader at Mendrisio.

 

[Mambo95]

I still think Gerrans can go well. He probably has not been given much opportunity at each race with Sky.

I'm not sure that's fair. He was on the podium at Amstel Gold and won the Tour of Denmark this year, after problems last year - damn good results for him. So he didn't win a Tour stage, but that's a lot easier said than done.

 

[gerrans for the win]

simon has done more in one year (results wise) then most french/spainish riders do in a life time an yet get a free ride so blah ....

i do love reading people say the team sucks,ummm they have only named 40% of the team, if anything they have a bigger upside then alot of teams with young talented guys signed already...

who will be signed nxt ?? davis,howard, can't wait

 

[auscyclefan94]

Gerrans has done nothing this year outside of the Amstel Gold Race. Sure, he got a handful of alright results at the Tour Down Under, but only Aussies care about that anyway. His only other notable results in the last two years is the Tour of Denmark, and winning that is hardly a massive endorsement of your climbing. Clarke is six years younger, hasn't really had much chance to ride for himself, and hasn't had injury woes to consider.

I think Gerrans is highly overrated. He's managed some pretty good results in the hilly classics but he's never really looked like a threat to win (no, Plouay doesn't count) and the story that the Australian team wanted him to lead at Mendrisio instead of Evans is, if not utter hogwash, then evidence that the Australian team have no clue. He's a contender in the hilly classics in the same way as Tadej Valjavec or Marzio Bruseghin are GT contenders.

You may be being a little harsh towards Gerrans in comparing him to Marzio Brushegin though I do agree with what you are saying in a less extreme extent. The fact that the aussies were going to ride for Gerrans at the worlds showed how there certainly is a clique amongst the Australian riders though saying that guys like Wes Sulzberger and Simon Clarke are known to be good friends with Cadel and actually openly complemented Cadel in the media about the worlds win. Anyway, Simon Clarke will be the next ardennes rider for Australia.

You know you've done a bad job recruiting when your best climber is Weening

Yeah, but they said that they weren't going to be a team for the mountains not just yet. Weening is still a good rider.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You may be being a little harsh towards Gerrans in comparing him to Marzio Brushegin though I do agree with what you are saying in a less extreme extent. The fact that the aussies were going to ride for Gerrans at the worlds showed how there certainly is a clique amongst the Australian riders though saying that guys like Wes Sulzberger and Simon Clarke are known to be good friends with Cadel and actually openly complemented Cadel in the media about the worlds win. Anyway, Simon Clarke will be the next ardennes rider for Australia.

Yeah, but they said that they weren't going to be a team for the mountains not just yet. Weening is still a good rider.

Remember Marzio has a podium in the Giro (2008). Otherwise he has collected a number of lower end top 10s without ever really threatening to win or setting forums ablaze with his performance. Sure, Bruseghin is now old and unlikely to be doing much in any GC, but I'm thinking of Bruseghin as of 3-4 years ago, when he was finishing in the top 25 of all 3 GTs but not really doing a great deal that made you go 'wow'. Very much like Gerrans in fact. Evans should always have been the leader in Mendrisio because (notwithstanding that he of course won) there is nothing Gerrans does better than him. The type of parcours that suits Gerrans also suits Evans, and Evans is a better rider. As you say, it can only be cliqueyness that led to the leadership rumour, because it should have been clear as daylight that Evans stood more of a chance of winning than Gerrans ever would.

As you say, Simon Clarke is Australia's next Ardennes rider. And from what he's shown in Tirreno-Adriatico and elsewhere this year is he's not afraid to take risks and get his name out there. Gerrans is a pretty good stagehunter still, but I simply can't envisage any situation where he wins a major hilly classic, even without Gilbert turning up. If they both go to GreenEdge, then Clarke should have a free role at least and I would not be surprised in the slightest if he then subsequently outperformed Gerrans in each one.

 

[theyoungest]

Remember Marzio has a podium in the Giro (2008). Otherwise he has collected a number of lower end top 10s without ever really threatening to win or setting forums ablaze with his performance. Sure, Bruseghin is now old and unlikely to be doing much in any GC, but I'm thinking of Bruseghin as of 3-4 years ago, when he was finishing in the top 25 of all 3 GTs but not really doing a great deal that made you go 'wow'. Very much like Gerrans in fact. Evans should always have been the leader in Mendrisio because (notwithstanding that he of course won) there is nothing Gerrans does better than him. The type of parcours that suits Gerrans also suits Evans, and Evans is a better rider. As you say, it can only be cliqueyness that led to the leadership rumour, because it should have been clear as daylight that Evans stood more of a chance of winning than Gerrans ever would.

As you say, Simon Clarke is Australia's next Ardennes rider. And from what he's shown in Tirreno-Adriatico and elsewhere this year is he's not afraid to take risks and get his name out there. Gerrans is a pretty good stagehunter still, but I simply can't envisage any situation where he wins a major hilly classic, even without Gilbert turning up. If they both go to GreenEdge, then Clarke should have a free role at least and I would not be surprised in the slightest if he then subsequently outperformed Gerrans in each one.

He got pretty close in the Amstel this year. And this after doing S.F.A. all spring.

edit: although you probably don't consider that to be a major classic.

 

[hatcher]

Gerrans has done nothing this year outside of the Amstel Gold Race. Sure, he got a handful of alright results at the Tour Down Under, but only Aussies care about that anyway. His only other notable results in the last two years is the Tour of Denmark, and winning that is hardly a massive endorsement of your climbing. Clarke is six years younger, hasn't really had much chance to ride for himself, and hasn't had injury woes to consider.

I think Gerrans is highly overrated. He's managed some pretty good results in the hilly classics but he's never really looked like a threat to win (no, Plouay doesn't count) and the story that the Australian team wanted him to lead at Mendrisio instead of Evans is, if not utter hogwash, then evidence that the Australian team have no clue. He's a contender in the hilly classics in the same way as Tadej Valjavec or Marzio Bruseghin are GT contenders.

You said Clarke is better than Gerrans "at present".

You're right, outside of a podium at Amstel Gold, the overall win at the Tour of Denmark, 12th at LBL (could easily have been top 10), he's done nothing this year!

Regardless of whether or not you think Gerrans looks threatening, he has 4 top 10s in AGR, FW, and LBL in the last 3 years.

There is just no argument that can be made that Clarke is presently a better rider than Gerrans.

 

[auscyclefan94]

You said Clarke is better than Gerrans "at present".

You're right, outside of a podium at Amstel Gold, the overall win at the Tour of Denmark, 12th at LBL (could easily have been top 10), he's done nothing this year!

Regardless of whether or not you think Gerrans looks threatening, he has 4 top 10s in AGR, FW, and LBL in the last 3 years.

There is just no argument that can be made that Clarke is presently a better rider than Gerrans.

I do agree that Gerrans has had a good year though based on ability and potential I certainly do see Simon Clarke as a better ardennes rider.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

"could have been top 10" doesn't wash. George Hincapie "could have" won Roubaix about 8 times, but instead he stuck to his patented "wait for the race to develop" technique. The Tour of Denmark? You got me on that one. Sadly it takes place at the same time as Burgos, Portugal and Poland so it kind of flew way under my radar, for obvious reasons (let's face it, of the four races, it's quite clearly the least suited to my interests).

To be fair to Gerrans, he has accumulated more results than I actually remembered, but that's part of why I think he's overrated - he's never actually done anything worth remembering outside of those GT stage wins. He gets the results in the same way as Tadej Valjavec got those GT top 10s - by just being sort of there.

Maybe I underrate him or neglect to acknowledge some of his results. But people are trying to sell him as a genuine leader and contender for the hilly classics. And that, I'm afraid, I simply can not, do not and will not buy. Not unless you're going to try to sell Michael Albasini as one too.

 

[daveinzambia]

"could have been top 10" doesn't wash. George Hincapie "could have" won Roubaix about 8 times, but instead he stuck to his patented "wait for the race to develop" technique. The Tour of Denmark? You got me on that one. Sadly it takes place at the same time as Burgos, Portugal and Poland so it kind of flew way under my radar, for obvious reasons (let's face it, of the four races, it's quite clearly the least suited to my interests).

To be fair to Gerrans, he has accumulated more results than I actually remembered, but that's part of why I think he's overrated - he's never actually done anything worth remembering outside of those GT stage wins. He gets the results in the same way as Tadej Valjavec got those GT top 10s - by just being sort of there.

Maybe I underrate him or neglect to acknowledge some of his results. But people are trying to sell him as a genuine leader and contender for the hilly classics. And that, I'm afraid, I simply can not, do not and will not buy. Not unless you're going to try to sell Michael Albasini as one too.

Having watched him race for Sky i always felt like Gerrans was not quite delivering to expectations, but maybe expectations were built too high here in OZ.

In the same way that Matt Goss was going to win at least 8 stages in this years tour de france.

 

[hatcher]

"could have been top 10" doesn't wash. George Hincapie "could have" won Roubaix about 8 times, but instead he stuck to his patented "wait for the race to develop" technique. The Tour of Denmark? You got me on that one. Sadly it takes place at the same time as Burgos, Portugal and Poland so it kind of flew way under my radar, for obvious reasons (let's face it, of the four races, it's quite clearly the least suited to my interests).

To be fair to Gerrans, he has accumulated more results than I actually remembered, but that's part of why I think he's overrated - he's never actually done anything worth remembering outside of those GT stage wins. He gets the results in the same way as Tadej Valjavec got those GT top 10s - by just being sort of there.

Maybe I underrate him or neglect to acknowledge some of his results. But people are trying to sell him as a genuine leader and contender for the hilly classics. And that, I'm afraid, I simply can not, do not and will not buy. Not unless you're going to try to sell Michael Albasini as one too.

Just sort of being there is much harder than you give credit for. Simon Clarke has never just sort of been there.

Even without his injury, Astana didn't have Clarke in their team for the Ardennes races. Lets wait and see what happens when Clarke is actually expected to get results, rather than just show his face a few times.

I'm selling Gerrans as someone who can podium in races like the Amstel Gold. That's a pretty good buy in my opinion.

 

[PCutter]

Gerrans will score his points, which is important under the current system. Maybe 3rd is the best he can do in the classics without some luck, but if he top 10's all 4, he probably pays his way.

With a HTF at TdU, he could probably win that as well - given Australians hit the race coming out of summer and a domestic race season rather than coming out of a European winter and thus start the year carrying a bit more form.

He has the ability to pick breaks which stick (hence his GT stages) but is never going to go mano a mano with the big boys. So if he gets a couple of top 5's in Ardennes, TdU, one GT stage and maybe a stage or two in some lesser stage races he will have had a great year. I don't think that's outside the realms of possibility if he's fit.

 

[Tuarts]

 

[briztoon]

Just for those that struggle to keep track (i.e. the noob - me) it's worth keeping a running list of who GE have signed.

Jack Bobridge
Cameron Meyer
Travis Meyer
Stuart O’Grady
Simon Gerrans
Daniel Teklehaimanot
Pieter Weening
Sebastian Langeveld

 

[jobiwan]

Just for those that struggle to keep track (i.e. the noob - me) it's worth keeping a running list of who GE have signed.

That's what this thread is for!!

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14738

 

[Sydney21]

Originally Posted by hatcher
You said Clarke is better than Gerrans "at present".

You're right, outside of a podium at Amstel Gold, the overall win at the Tour of Denmark, 12th at LBL (could easily have been top 10), he's done nothing this year!

Regardless of whether or not you think Gerrans looks threatening, he has 4 top 10s in AGR, FW, and LBL in the last 3 years.

There is just no argument that can be made that Clarke is presently a better rider than Gerrans.

Love Simon and think he's a great rider but I also think that Clarke talentwise is better (talentwise because Gerro has an uncany knack of getting himself in the right breaks and following the right wheels which is a very importnat skill in its own right.) Clarke plays a more attacking role than simon. Theres nothing better or worse about that its just what his team wants him to do and means that when he doesn't win he often finds himself well down the results sheet. thats why its hard to compare.

The argument being made is valid because Clarke didn't ride the Ardennes this year so it is very hard to directly compare Gerro's results and way of racing with Clarkes. Also Clarke hasn't been on the scene for very long so his long term results aren't there. this is what we do. have to go off:

Clarke has attacked in many many races this year. Flanders, Roubaix, many of the smaller italian classics, Poland to name a few and shown himself to be super strong. He hasn't won many races as a result of playing this attacking and often self sacrificial role for the team. Clarkes results this year, most of which have been achieved on the days where he has had the chance to be protected and ride for himself (Most of the time when he rides the same schedule as Iglinsky astana protect Iglinski and let Clarke attack like in some of the races i mentioned above) are solid but do not set the house on fire.

2011 9º in Stage 2 Tour of Oman, Al Wutayya (OMA)
2011 7º in Giro del Friuli, Gorizia (ITA)
2011 13º in Stage 6 Tirreno - Adriatico, Macerata (ITA)
2011 15º in General Classification Tirreno - Adriatico (ITA)
2011 9º in Stage 8 Tour de Suisse, Schaffhausen (SUI)
2011 4º in Stage 1 Österreich-Rundfahrt, Götzis (AUT)
2011 5º in Tre Valli Varesine, Campione d'Italia (ITA)
2011 5º in Coppa Agostoni, Lissone (ITA)

The 4th in Austria was in a bunch kick against where he beat a number of fast sprinters demonstrating what I see as his ability to win from a small group. the 5th in Tre Valle was behind only Rebellin, Pozzivivo, Gasparotto and Pinot. His 15th at Tirreno whilst nothing special proves his ability to climb on tough courses and looking at the names of the 14 guys in from of him places him as a very strong rider in an elite field.

Bear also in mind that he was injured for a good chunk of the middle to early season which hindered his progress for a couple of months. So with these results and the races that he attacked in and slipped down the re****s sheet there havn't been many races he hasn't performed in on some level. He has proven himself to be able to climb just below the level of a number of proven riders and sprint fairly fast too.

Yes Gerro did ride a great Amstel but he did never look like winning. He raced smart by following wheels and chose the right group to follow until he made his one kick a few hundred metres before the line. 12th in Liege was solid but he was rarely on the camera so I didn't see what happened. Denmark was a good solid win.

2011 3º in National Championship, Road, Elite, Australia, Buninyong (AUS)
2011 4º in Stage 3 Tour Down Under, Stirling (AUS)
2011 7º in Stage 3 Volta ao Algarve, Malhão (POR)
2011 3º in Amstel Gold Race, Valkenburg (NED)
2011 12º in Liège - Bastogne - Liège, Ans (BEL)
2011 11º in Clásica San Sebastián, San Sebastián (ESP)
2011 1º in General Classification Post Danmark Rundt (DEN)

No one is denying that Gerro has better results this year. But he has also had greater opportunities and and no major injuries to my memory. In saying all of this I would be the first one to smile when Gerro wins and he has been a great rider for many years. But when it comes to the recruitment of Greenedge, for me Clarke after just turning 25 would be to me a more valuable signing than Gerro.

Hopefullt both will get to watch the ride the Ardennes next year and we will get to watch them both.

 

[Sydney21]

With a HTF at TdU, he could probably win that as well - given Australians hit the race coming out of summer and a domestic race season rather than coming out of a European winter and thus start the year carrying a bit more form.

That's a really good point I think its very important for Greenedge to make a huge impression at the TDU. And that probably means winning the overall if possible.

 

[NickBVK]

Clarke definitely has the pedigree of a future Ardennes, hilly star but the way he rode in RVV and Roubaix with his build was awesome to watch.

 

[Sydney21]

"I would have liked to go to GreenEdge," Pinotti told Cycling Weekly last week, "but it didn't work out."

They shouldn't have missed out on that opportunity. They need guys like Marco to let them shoot for GC in the one week stage races with TT's and theres no shortage of theose races around so that they could accumulate points. GC is where the points lie not just classics. I can't see many other potential GC guys who are still off contract. Im pretty sure Leipheimer isn't coming across, im not sure how many other guys there are that are off contract either... bad miss IMO

 

[Andy99]

Any further news on the sponsor?

..Jacobs Creek?

even the colour scheme is correct

 

[Sydney21]

MarkBeretta Mark Beretta by leighhoward1
Suspect some big news and big names to come from new Aussie #GreenEDGE cycling team soon. #cycling murmors !!

Ok i suppose that's his sly roundabout way of saying he's coming... Leigh Howard that is

 

[janraaskalt]

Ok i suppose that's his sly roundabout way of saying he's coming... Leigh Howard that is

It would be a surprise if he wouldn't

 

[LukeSchmid]

That's a really good point I think its very important for Greenedge to make a huge impression at the TDU. And that probably means winning the overall if possible.

They will have the defending champion Meyer, and seem highly likely to sign the second placed Goss, plus perhaps 9th and 10th in Davis and Roberts. It would appear to be the perfect starting race for them. They will have Gerrans and perhaps Teklehaimanot for the stage that finishes on Willunga Hill.

 

[Sydney21]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/how-to-build-a-cycling-team-20110819-1j259.html

Great Article on Greenedge. Some really nice probing questions. Lots of stuff we already know. Leaves me with 2 questions...

If Matt White and Neil Stephens will be 2 sport directors who will be the third?

Our expectation, in terms of the points our riders will come to GreenEDGE with, [is that] we will be around the 10th, 11th or 12th team …

That is an interesting one... Even with Gerro, Langeveld, C Meyer, Goss iwouldnt expect them to be quite high. Wil be interesting to see who else they will get...even vaughters didn't place them that high.

 

[Ferminal]

From the article:

"We missed out on one rider we wanted but that's life."

Only one? Either there are a few big names which they have lined up, or they weren't interested in the wealth of talent which was on the market this year.